Did Elon's comments just hurt your "early production" car's resale value?

[tomas]

If an S is kept clean it can look new forever. ICE cars are much harder to keep in that condition. Look under hood of 5 year old ICE. And, assuming battery price/capacity trend continues and million mile drivetrain happens via continuous improvement, a 10 year old S could be refreshed with new battery for < $10k and have another 10 "like new" years. Granted it will not have features of a new S. I bought my car to be a 8 to 10 year daily driver, but I now know I'll be torn at 8+ years between depreciated trade and a mid life refresh with new battery and whatnot.

 

[Cyclone]

They were addressed on the older vehicles as well, but the fact that they had to be addressed is what brought the reliability score down.

I hope that answers your question.

This. Nothing more to be said. The older cars are "fixed" with revised parts. My car's sunroof now uses new car materials, my drive unit uses new car version, door jangled are replaced with newer versions, etc.

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Am I understanding the comments correctly (besides the terse ones), earlier models "had" more problems but those problems have been resolved through replacement with improved parts and therefore earlier cars are now on par with later cars in reliability?

Yes

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That's not quite true. Tesla did not go around proactively replacing all the parts from the earlier cars with improved parts. So not all earlier cars will be on par with later cars in reliability. And while there were certain items that were replaced with improved parts, that will not apply to all items. As a buyer, I guess that involves looking at how many TSBs have been performed (you can find a list on the NHTSA website) as well as customer service campaigns (these are not published and I don't believe anyone has compiled a list unfortunately).

In general, early production products are always more likely to have more problems, so Tesla certainly isn't immune to that.

Though this caveat exists. Older cars get updated parts as-needed.

 

[Breezy]

I hope prices of earlier cars go down. I'd get one and take my chances.

 

[yobigd20]

I wonder what Tesla will do with traded-in MS' when they get to, say, 5 years old and 50k+ miles? By their own '$1/mile, $1k/month) residual value calculation they will effectively be worthless. Scrap 'em? MW

with my 89k mile & 32 months of ownership, I guess i'd have to pay Tesla to take my car using that formula, haha

 

[freeewilly]

Did Elon's comments just hurt your "early production" car's resale value?

Not really, it is common sense that early production cars are less reliable, this apply to every brand every model.

 

[islandbayy]

I wonder what Tesla will do with traded-in MS' when they get to, say, 5 years old and 50k+ miles? By their own '$1/mile, $1k/month) residual value calculation they will effectively be worthless. Scrap 'em? MW

I already attempted to get a trade in value a few months back, at about 65,000 on my car when I got drive unit #3, and basically was told, since it's over 50k miles, Tesla doesn't want it because they "cant" CPO it. They would take it as a trade at a deduction of $1 per mile, and then just send it straight to the auctions. So basically, right now with 72,000 on my car, including minor depreciation for years, my May 2013 car is worth about $10k for trade in, if not less.

And in response to opening topic's questions, In my opinion, resale of our Pre-AP cars took a instant $20,000 hit when Elon debut the AP and Dual Motor's at Hawthorn Event. And we just took another hit making our cars considerably more difficult to sell after the recent comments.

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Did Elon's comments just hurt your "early production" car's resale value?

Not really, it is common sense that early production cars are less reliable, this apply to every brand every model.

Common sense, yes, but when the "Manufacturer" basically says they were junk, that pretty much kills it.

 

[islandbayy]

Warning: This is a long one!



I hate to say it, as usual, being pretty much Tesla's biggest fanboy.....
I would have to rate my car as becoming LESS reliable as time goes on. With each "new" (or reman) drive unit, the failures are coming quicker. I'm getting my 4th DU in 2 weeks. I've gone through a battery, a number of door handles, cooling fan, coolant pumps, active shutters, endless water leaking into my trunk (not just the hatch any more, when my car goes in for the next drive unit, I believe my hatch and taillights will be resealed for the 15th or 16th time, and water is now pouring into the car every major rain storm, as well as hatch fills up every minor rain shower), charge ports, Endless Key Not In vehicle with no resolution in sight. Broken ball joint at ~52,000 miles. Both front sway bars at ~68,000 miles. On third set of tires because of excessive, un-correctable negative camber on rear tires, and a seriously bad alignment job from factory when the car was new taking about 12,000 miles of life off the original set of tires (based on my second sets live span to get to the same tread depth). Seat motors popping apart, UMC failures, squeaks, rattles and more.
I could continue, on and on and on and on, but so far, the total number of pages of service records is about 120 most likely more as I have not added the most recent ones into the mix, and I estimate if I had paid for repairs out of pocket (not counting the upcoming visit for the Drive unit, Sealing the trunk yet again for water, 2 more door handles acting up and now my drivers window) to be somewhere between $100k and $150k based on what out of warranty replacement service has cost other members here. (As usual, I feel the need to praise Tesla's service centers for a awesome job. They are not at fault for any issues.

Frustration has built up to the point where, if I was any less of a man, I would have driven the car through the Tesla showroom window (Chinese guy with the sledge hammer comes to mind), but since the major failures happened outside of the first year of ownership, lemon law doesn't apply.


In conclusion to my rant, Early production cars seem to fall into one of two categories. Category 1: A few issues here or their, spread out, of the minor fairly minor type. Category 2: Endless issues, of all types, both making the vehicle inoperable at times, and endless nuisance issues that keep re-occurring.

I had planned on keeping my car for a fairly long time (8 years minimum). I had hoped that I would be handing my car down to my Geno when he turns 16, and then upgrade to Tesla & Elons Rocket Ship Interstellar version. However, at the reliability level of my vehicle, I dread when my odometer ticks over 100,000 miles in December or January, as I know if I have a large failure not related to drive unit or battery, my car will need to sit as a paperweight in my driveway until I can afford the repair. It's sad and sickening at the same time.
Because of the above, and the number of referrals I have gotten in the referral program (16 now and a few more potentially within the next 6 days), that is some nice credit, that I could use as a "extended warranty" option to pay for repairs when the ESA expires.

I also thought, since I have more then 10 referrals, I could even get a Model X loaded for the cost of a base model (Rumored to cost only about 5k more then a base Model S). Which POTENTIALLY might have been do-able, if I sell or trade in my car, as well as use all my referral credits I have left, and take out another loan.

Now I must ask myself, though, what is my car worth??? I am a straightforward honest person, so for starters, If I sell it private party, what would the buyer ask me? Well, first thing they will ask, has it been reliable. I can not, and will not lie, as I pull out the Ream of Papers that is the service records of my car. How much value has my car lost because of that? Next, trade in, how much is my car worth? When I inquired the last time, I was straight out told pretty much nothing to tesla. $1 per mile deduction, and deduction for age brings the value of my car at about 10k to tesla after only 2 years of ownership, endless headaches, problems, getting stuck on the side of the free once due to a battery contactor failure, the car going funky one cold slick evening ending up with the car deciding to disable power steering, abs, and more on a nice slick road almost causing me to end up in a lake.

Once you factor in everything, Service records and Issues, Mileage, old age according to Tesla, Then you have the loss of value because it's not a Dual Motor or Autopilot hardware car, then again, another drop in value after the consumer reports fiasco (And hate me all you want, I believe that Consumer Reports was dead on with reliability based on !!!MY!!! experiences, at least with the First Gen "CLASSIC" Model S cars), my 2 year old Model S is now worth the same or less then my old, beat up 13 year old Nissan Xterra. Obviously, I am playing on the extreme for private party. I'm sure private party I might squeeze 20 or 30k out of it, I'd be better actually parting it out.




After saying all of that, you may ask, why would I want another Tesla? Well, because in general, they are learning from past mistakes. And they are showing that they are improving things, raising the bar on quality. I have seen and experienced it first hand. The progression over time. Not just in the endless number of brand spanking new (and sometimes New, but WELL WORN) loaners, but also in other road warriors such as myself that have newer "Second Gen" Model S Cars (AP Versions). I rate quality improvements in just 2 year 5 months that I've been a owner, the improvement has been over 1000%. It's impressive. It's also unfortunate that some of us have had to go beyond being guinea pig alpha testers. I'm not a litigious person. I suppose if I was, I'd have either a full refund by now or a brand new car sitting in my driveway. But alas, I do what I can to make things work. Couldn't afford the lawyers if I wanted to. And if I lost, heck, It would bankrupt me (The only people who win a in lawsuits are the lawyers no matter what the outcome!).


So that ends my rant and opinion piece. I'm sure my phone will be ringing from Tesla tomorrow morning. They most likely have me on speed dial by now. But if you haven't seen it in this post, look again. My feedback is honest. I am well known for being Brutally honest. I show both sides, good and bad. I am straight forward, I don't sugar-coat things. If Tesla doesn't get feedback, they cannot improve. Maybe I am a rare case, but the number of "classic" owners having repeat issues and bugs that just cant be squashed is much higher then it should be at this point.


And in closing, I will repeat. Tesla service has been absolutely spectacular. The best, highest World Class service I have experienced anywhere in my life! Unfortunately, that can only go so far But when things are working as designed, this vehicle is PURE DRIVING BLISS!



P.S. I have had this typed out for over a day now, contemplating weather or not to post it. I don't want to get anyone in trouble, and I don't want to be the subject of "hate mail" again like I was a few previous times I have given my HONEST STRAIGHTFORWARD OPINION BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES. Even then, it was a difficult decision, but I am positing it.

 

[Cyclone]

And in closing, I will repeat. Tesla service has been absolutely spectacular. The best, highest World Class service I have experienced anywhere in my life! Unfortunately, that can only go so far :frown:

P.S. I have had this typed out for over a day now, contemplating weather or not to post it. I don't want to get anyone in trouble, and I don't want to be the subject of "hate mail" again like I was a few previous times I have given my HONEST STRAIGHTFORWARD OPINION BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES. Even then, it was a difficult decision, but I am positing it.

Islandbayy, I am very sorry to hear of all the problems you have had to endure with your car. Thank you for sharing your honest, straightforward account of your experiences.

 

[Tedkidd]

Islandbayy, I am very sorry to hear of all the problems you have had to endure with your car. Thank you for sharing your honest, straightforward account of your experiences.

+1

My uncle got $50k at Carmax for his (after Tesla gave him a run around on trade in value). Early car, vin 14xx s85 with 48k, and a fair amount of wear. I think they got the car with 14k on the clock, so it cost them less than $1 a mile to own. They got a 70d.

Looking at sold cars on eBay at the time, there weren't many selling under $60k. That's a great place to research current values.

So if you have a high mileage car that Tesla doesn't seem to want, and you want to bother to selling it yourself or you are in a situation similar to Islandbayy, check out Carmax.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Musk just confirmed me hunch way back. This is why i think the 2012 cpo cars are really worthless for someone who wants to own the car for a long time. Personally i am still waiting on a reasonably priced s85d which are much better in reliability. But at the rate they are going down. It looks like i will be waiting for the next version because even those have issues here and there. This is why i think Porsche or GM in 2017 will be major competitors to tesla. They will have reliability down and learning experiences from their other cheaper compliance produced cars. While tesla have a few rich early adopter for their feedback.

That being said, i am still set on placing a deposit for the model 3. But given the delay on the model x and all these relibility issues, i dont have hopes the model 3 will be released in late 2017 like musk originally said.

They ahve realisitically 2 more years to produce thr model 3 if they plan to stick to the original schedule. But without even the prototype released, what hopes do one have for tesla to mass produce the car in time. If anything it will be like the model x which is yet in full production mode.