Did Tesla make a weirdmobile? Comparison 3 BMW 3 dash

[gregincal]

I don't find that true at all.

Adjusting temperature from a roller you can find with your hand vs. pressing + and - somewhere on a touch screen are completely different.

I find with a roller you definitely have to look. Otherwise how else to you know when to stop rolling? With the button I know to tap 3 times to go from 70 degrees to 73 degrees. I really feel people always look down when they are accessing controls, but it's so automatic they don't think about it.

But I'd argue even operating that seat ventilation button is very different touch vs. button. No way can I do it on my Model X without looking and there is no tactile click to tell me my click actually went through - for all I know nothing happened. On my Audi A8 turned on seat ventilation all the time without looking and it was easy to both find the button and know when it had been pushed and how many pushes had registered...

I don't find I have to look while I tap, but in either case I look at the end to see if the setting is what I want.

The touch screen is one of my favorite things about a Tesla. I wouldn't give it up for anything.

 

[JeffK]

I don't find that true at all.

Adjusting temperature from a roller you can find with your hand vs. pressing + and - somewhere on a touch screen are completely different.

But I'd argue even operating that seat ventilation button is very different touch vs. button. No way can I do it on my Model X without looking and there is no tactile click to tell me my click actually went through - for all I know nothing happened. On my Audi A8 turned on seat ventilation all the time without looking and it was easy to both find the button and know when it had been pushed and how many pushes had registered...

What my concern is with the quest for simplicity is that sometimes it is taken so far that the simplicity is in appearances only. A bit like so many times on Apple devices, they look so marvelous with their limited connectors and sleek bodies... and then the actual reality is a massive amount of adapters and ugly external expansions to solve what could have been solved more elegantly had maximum simplicity not been the order of the day... The balance, that's what's important... Model S was already taking it far and not it seems Model 3 is taking things way beyond that...

I think Jaguar's I-Pace concept has a nice idea on touch combined with tactile A/C controls...

This is a great example of physical buttons/controls for something that most people don't adjust that often. It's a physical just for the sake of being physical.

From this angle I can't even see over the dash either...

 

[Carl]

If Tesla designers are listening, can we please have at least a couple of buttons on the dash please. Maybe a green power-on button to start car and a big red one to stop, maybe centered on the dash so it looks symmetrical. (...)

You'll power on by pushing the brake pedal, and power off by putting the car in parking mode and getting out of the car. You won't mind

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@gregincal But that's the thing, most modern cars put the adjusted figures in your field of view while adjusting. You operate the roller without looking and can see the new temperature in a view over the dash... and when it is something like volume, you don't even have to look...

I drive weekly my Tesla and a couple of German premiums and I find operating heat in the latter ones immensely easier. And let's not even talk about opening that sunroof... Tesla is the only one where I have to really look to open it (though no longer an issue with Model X of course).

@JeffK You can disagree with me, but please don't dismiss my view. As I said, I personally find some of the physical controls in my Germans welcome and missed/miss them in my Model S/X, so in my view they are not pointless at all - amd I base my like of the Jaguar heating controls on this experience. Heating and ventilation adjustments especially are ones that I find harder to operate on Teslas and I do use them constantly.

The thing is: even if you have to look with a physical button, much less looking is needed than with a touchscreen where you have to focus looking for a longer period of time. For example, enabling rear seat heating required multiple taps over several windows. On the Audi A8 the passenger just pressed a button themselves... Same with steering wheel heating, it is major hassle on the Tesla, on the Audi it is button on the wheel - very easy to turn on/off.

I am fine with people disagreeing subjectively of course, and agreeing to disagree. But I do find it clear why some people can have issues with too radical touch interfaces. Physical buttons still have their uses and some of us are merely hoping for a good balance. The touchscreen is fine but physical controls are still useful at times. That's why Teslas have the steering wheel controls for example... right? You wouldn't drop them?

 

[JeffK]

Physical buttons still have their uses and some of us are merely hoping for a good balance. The touchscreen is fine but physical controls are still useful at times. That's why Teslas have the steering wheel controls for example... right? You wouldn't drop them?

For me either physical or easy access via touch screen is equivalent for needed everyday tasks... other tasks which I'd typically do while stationary before setting off or very infrequently then I really wouldn't care if they are buried in a menu as long as the menu tree depth isn't ridiculous or unnecessarily complex. Rear seat heaters would be a prime example of something I wouldn't care about.

Although this was a prototype UI, for me, this had everything I'd need (personally) on a daily basis. The one thing I'd like easier access to would be the volume control. Hopefully that's controlled by the steering wheel in some fashion.

 

[NerdUno]

Model 3 rids of everything that is unnecessary. Something that every other car maker doesn't do.

I'm reminded of the mom who goes to watch her fifth grader march in the school parade. She turns to her friend and says, "Look. My little boy is the only one in step."

 

[JeffK]

I'm reminded of the mom who goes to watch her fifth grader march in the school parade. She turns to her friend and says, "Look. My little boy is the only one in step."

Some people simply have far superior children

 

[sperkin]

Here's the latest information for you: not tiltable, it's probably fixed in place and it's solid.

I'm going to read between the lines on this one. Designer says don't worry about it because it's not final design. No discussion about it is needed. Anything he says will break the NDA or give false information.

Also, I guess the model 3 won't have knee airbags. Nothing can be placed in front of airbag zones so if this screen placement is final then I don't think the car will have knee air bags then. However, since safetly is number 1, the model 3 should have the same air bag protection as the S and X. I'm 99.9% sure the screen placement is not final.

 

[JeffK]

I'm going to read between the lines on this one. Designer says don't worry about it because it's not final design. No discussion about it is needed. Anything he says will break the NDA or give false information.

Also, I guess the model 3 won't have knee airbags. Nothing can be placed in front of airbag zones so if this screen placement is final then I don't think the car will have knee air bags then. However, since safetly is number 1, the model 3 should have the same air bag protection as the S and X. I'm 99.9% sure the screen placement is not final.

Not to burst your bubble, but the "you won't have to worry about it" was in response to being asked how solid it is... if you've seen any of the pics on how it's mounted, it does look solid.

As far as airbags, the screen is tilted upward. It would be completely missed by knee airbags.

 

[gregincal]

Physical buttons still have their uses and some of us are merely hoping for a good balance. The touchscreen is fine but physical controls are still useful at times. That's why Teslas have the steering wheel controls for example... right? You wouldn't drop them?

Having the steering wheel controls is great, and that's one of the things I'm waiting to see about before committing to the Model 3. However, physical buttons on the dash means a smaller screen, and I wouldn't want that. Like the iPhone, the advantage of everything virtual is being able to use the space as needed at the moment. I love my large map while driving along with the media info.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm going to read between the lines on this one. Designer says don't worry about it because it's not final design. No discussion about it is needed. Anything he says will break the NDA or give false information.

Also, I guess the model 3 won't have knee airbags. Nothing can be placed in front of airbag zones so if this screen placement is final then I don't think the car will have knee air bags then. However, since safetly is number 1, the model 3 should have the same air bag protection as the S and X. I'm 99.9% sure the screen placement is not final.

Lol, now you are just throwing things in the air to see what sticks. We get it, you hate the design. Others don't. No need to throw wild speculation on how it's impossible for it to be final.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Having the steering wheel controls is great, and that's one of the things I'm waiting to see about before committing to the Model 3. However, physical buttons on the dash means a smaller screen, and I wouldn't want that. Like the iPhone, the advantage of everything virtual is being able to use the space as needed at the moment. I love my large map while driving along with the media info.

I don't think some physical controls mean a smaller touchscreen. Both Model S/X and 3 certainly have plenty of room for physical controls (e.g. in center console) if they wanted to. And rear seat heaters could have buttons in the rear...

There is a balance between nothing or some or everything.

Anyway, regarding Model 3 it is all moot. It will be whatever it will be.

 

[Siciliano]

I know everyone has different tastes, but I still really don't understand how anyone could like the display placement...I guess someone who cares nothing about aesthetics?

The display interrupts every elegant flowing line in the cabin. It looks like a glued-on iPad. These observations are difficult to argue/ignore. It's a shame I yearn for performance... I would just buy the S P90D or P100D but I don't want to spend $100k+

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I know everyone has different tastes, but I still really don't understand how anyone could like the display placement...I guess someone who cares nothing about aesthetics?

I do get the idea Tesla was/is aiming for.

This reminds me of a conversation Steve Jobs and Jony Ive had, reportedly, in around the turn of the century about the second-generation iMac. Jony Ive wanted to put it all into one box and make it sort of like the thin iMac that came years later, but Jobs said to let the natural lines of the technology show. It was not yet possible to make a thin computer, so it would have been thick. Instead, they designed this, where the screen was alllowed to be thin:

So, I kind of get the idea here. Because there is no way to integrate a huge flat screen onto a dash nicely (let's face it, Model S/X screen does not actually "flow"), one solution is to not try at all and let the thin screen just be a thin screen. The other alternative would be to put in a smaller, a curved or several smaller screens like e.g. I-Pace is doing...

Personally, thus, that is the least of my concerns in the Model 3 interior. I get the design goal and thus it doesn't bother me. What bothers me more is the rest of the dash (not a fan of the spartan design), excessive reliance on touch (even less buttons than Model S/X it seems, less stalks, less door and less wheel buttons) and the lack of instrument cluster solution (e.g. HUD or something).

 

[tomas]

What we are used to is glance down a bit to see instrument cluster. Given the height of the screen in the 3, it will be glance right a bit. Or maybe not. Could be that the key info is visible peripherally without averting from road. In which case it is a form of HUD. We will have to experience to know. In any event, it will be less of a glance away than S/X screen.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

What we are used to is glance down a bit to see instrument cluster. Given the height of the screen in the 3, it will be glance right a bit. Or maybe not. Could be that the key info is visible peripherally without averting from road. In which case it is a form of HUD. We will have to experience to know. In any event, it will be less of a glance away than S/X screen.

I accept we must wait and see, but my fear is that it will not be less of a look than Model S/X. To me it seems at minimum it is the same look down + look to the right (so an angled look down). However I also fear it may require a larger focal shift from the road as it is closer.

I do not personally see the upside that you feel could be there. To me it does not seem to be better in the peripheral vision. Not to mention this is just about the speedo. Anything else like autopilot info will be way more down on the Model 3...

Also there is the added possiblity of glare. We shall see, but I do not think saying "less of a glance away than S/X" can be supported.

 

[JeffK]

However I also fear it may require a larger focal shift from the road as it is closer.

By what? A few inches at most? There's always been a focal shift from the road when looking at the speedometer, other gauges, mirrors, radio, etc.

Heck, if they made the speed change color or do something when you are driving over the posted speed limit, according to whatever the car thinks it is, then you might be able to see it out of the corner or your eye without even reading the number or changing focus from the road and/or your mirrors. This might actually be easier than a traditional speedometer depending on implementation.

 

[eloder]

Even the lack of AC vents is a solution in search of a problem. Nothing was wrong with directional air vents. Blowing cool air on your head, armpits, hands, etc when you're hot FEELS GOOD.

If all cars had been historically designed without directional air vents, then tesla came along and released directional air vents, they would be praised by the same fanboys who are currently praising the removal of such directional air control. "Musk is a genius for finally creating climate systems that can control the directional flow of the air!"

It's not about improving things, tesla appears just to like changing things to score points with people who need everything to be new and novel, even if the changes reduce functionality or reliability compared to the previous solutions. Touchscreens, auto door handles, gullwing doors, no AC vents all fit into this category of flawed thinking.

The problem is that not everyone likes that.

Two of my partners for example have always shunted air vents away from them. This was a problem because the vent could not easily be redirected on one of my cars, and I had to forcefully keep AC below something I was comfortable with.

I think someone else said it best--when you get home, do you go lay on top of an air vent? Some people do, I'm sure. But most people don't.

Smart preconditioning and AI will ensure that this won't be a problem. Sure, houses and cars are different--but most people I know will keep AC cooler, and heat warmer in cars than they will in homes. It's also possible--this is speculation of course--that the design will still keep vent lovers happy by allowing high enough fan speeds, or still have hidden directional vents available.

The need for cool air blasting on your face is because current cars generally don't care that the car is 115 degrees when you first enter it.

My Google assistant can pretty accurately predict how long I'll be at any one location. It will begin pre-cooling/warming my home while I'm driving back to it, even from one-off trips. I imagine Tesla will be able to do the same.

I'll wait for the I-Pace.

Have fun with having a car on a leash. You may as well save a bunch of money and get a Leaf, because that I-Pace and the Leaf will be able to travel the same distance (your home + commuting distance--any long distance is still heavily limited)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Two of my partners for example have always shunted air vents away from them. This was a problem because the vent could not easily be redirected on one of my cars, and I had to forcefully keep AC below something I was comfortable with.

I don't know the gender of your partners, but FWIW German manufacturers quite often call the indirect vents on top of dashboards (has been sometimes a paid A/C upgrade in some cars) as the "Lady vent" (rough translation). This is because according to their research, women more often dislike direct air than men.

Not that there aren't men that dislike direct air, but just noting this history.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I already stepped out of line and cancelled. I was wrong. EM is really building a $35K econo-box and down selling the hell out of it. I'm used to upscale German marques. I'll wait for the I-Pace. It seems to be positioned as a more upscale offering.

Have fun with having a car on a leash. You may as well save a bunch of money and get a Leaf, because that I-Pace and the Leaf will be able to travel the same distance (your home + commuting distance--any long distance is still heavily limited)

I think one major problem on a Tesla board such as this is the vastly different background that people come from. People who come from upscale German cars, often expect different things from their cars than those that are buying up to get a Tesla.

For example, what @182RG says there makes absolutely perfect sense to me. And @eloder's response makes absolutely no sense to me. Why would you suggest a Leaf to a person wanting to buy an upscale automobile? (Frankly I don't understand that even from a BEV perspective since the utilty of a large-battery BEV is unparalleled compared to a small-battery one, even with just home/work charging.)

This has been a problem already even on the Model S forum. I came from an Audi A8 and saw that many wants and likes I had (that Model S still lacks today) were generally sneered upon by people coming from different types of vehicles. And that's perfectly understandable. If your normal car desires are more General Motors than Bayerische Motoren Werke, that is bound to show - and vice-versa. (And mind you, this hasn't necessarily got anything to do with money, people are used to certain types of cars due to personal preferences, history etc. as well.)

It is just the difficulty of such a diverse bunch converging on the very limited large-battery BEV availability in the world. It will get easier over time as more choice is offered and people find more natural places for their money, but until then I guess we need an extra dose of mutual understanding.