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Different 240v?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Vrrooom, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. Vrrooom

    Vrrooom Member

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    We had this 240v 15a outlet installed but it's not the same to accept a Tesla charger. I'm not sure why they're different and what can be done. Anyone?
     

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  2. AB4EJ

    AB4EJ Member

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    What can be done is to have your electrician come back and replace this with a NEMA 14-50 outlet, and replace the wiring so that it can supply 40a continuous. Otherwise you will have very, very long charge times.
     
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  3. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    That shouldn't be 15a. That looks like a NEMA 6-50. Get him to change it to a 14-50 and verify the breaker and wire size.

    NEMA Straight Blade Reference Chart
     
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  4. Vrrooom

    Vrrooom Member

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    Made a typo in the original- it looks to be a 50a outlet- does anyone know if it's possible to just switch out the outlet or if the entire wiring has to be updated?
     

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  5. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    6-50 is 3 wires. 2 hots and a ground. 14-50 is 4 wires. 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground. You may be lacking a neutral wire.
     
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  6. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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  7. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Really, don't use adapters or workarounds for something as important as this. Get the electrician to come back and replace it if you still trust them. Was this company recommended by Tesla? Probably not.
     
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  8. Vrrooom

    Vrrooom Member

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    That may be the easiest. Question on that- when we took delivery yesterday, the DS said with extension cords, the car would not be able to detect what the amps are. Would it be the same issue? And what would I need to do on the car front?
    The home was a new construction and the builder installed the '240v 50a car charger' outlet.

    182RG- thank you for all the good information. After you identified the plug and posted the link, I was able to search with more precise keywords and also ran into this thread. For anyone that may need this info in the future, also read this:

    NEMA 14-50 receptacle-wiring help needed | Tesla Motors

    After reading that it seems that the UMC doesn't use the neutral and so the adapter would probably be the route to go for me. I checked the breaker and it looks like it's bridged on 2 40a- does this mean 80a breaker?
     
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  9. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    But Tesla does not need or use the neutral so the plug could be switched out. The concern is that If you plug something in that expects the neutral (like an RV) it will not work.
     
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  10. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    The most knowledgable and best authority on this topic on this forum is @FlasherZ. Suggest you search for his posts and in his signature is an FAQ worth reading.
     
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  11. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    In instances of wiring or rewiring with a ground and a neutral, remember that both those wires go back to the circuit breaker box and wire into the very same ground buss. If you run the neutral to both neutral and ground in a plug, if you don't have a ground wire in your cable, it makes no difference. Grounds and neutrals join at the box. If they join in the plug, the car can't tell.
     
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  12. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    From your description the breaker is 40A, which means you can onlyy draw 32A and you would have to manually dial the amps down if you used any adapter. Really your best and safest thing to do is to have an electrician rewire it for 14-50 outlet if possible.

    Good intention by the builder but poor execution. This is why it may be best for builders to just run conduit to a junction box in the garage, where a future electrician can install the proper breaker, wiring, and outlet that is needed.
     
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  13. KJD

    KJD Member

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  14. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Never, ever, ever put a NEMA 14-50 on a circuit that has no neutral. 14-50's require a neutral, and you will destroy appliances - yes, destroy - should an RV plug into that outlet.
     
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  15. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    No, no, no, this is bad practice. While the car can't tell, people who get shocks can tell. That 6-50 has two line conductors and a ground, there is no neutral there. You may not use a ground as a neutral (although in older installations, NEMA 10, neutral can be used as a ground for larger appliances - in 1996 this practice was eliminated for all new construction in favor of 4-wire connections - NEMA 14).

    Grounds and neutral join at *one* box - the service panel or meter pan. Subpanels past that must keep them separated, as must runs to other boxes, receptacles, etc. It's never acceptable to join or cross neutrals and grounds anywhere but the first service panel. It is true that they're bonded at that point, but you'll create ground loops if you do it anywhere else. In addition, the required sizes of grounds are different (smaller) than neutrals and can be overloaded.

    Also, grounds get to touch metallic devices in between and are never intended to return current to the transformer. when grounds are used as neutrals, people who touch metallic surfaces can receive a shock because they'll become a path to ground for ground current.

    Someone who uses a ground as a neutral in a box instantly creates a shock hazard for any appliances that begin using that neutral to return unbalanced current (an RV gets plugged into that receptacle).

    Never mix grounds and neutrals.
     
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  16. smsprague

    smsprague Member

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    You might try to find an old Tesla 6-50 adapter, they stopped selling them about 2 years ago. 6-50 is a common plug - welders - pottery kiln. If you are on a 40 amp breaker but have wire to support 50 amps switch out breaker to 50 amps. I have 6-50 plugs on 6 gauge wire.
     
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  17. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Yes, if you can find one it would be the easiest here but they're hard to find.

    The problem with 6-50 receptacles in the wild is that they're the ones most commonly *not* attached to 50A circuits. The welder section in the code allows for a 6-50 to be connected to a 30A breaker on 15A conductors if the welder specs permit it.
     
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  18. smsprague

    smsprague Member

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    Yikes - surprised that's leagal.
     
  19. ABCCBA

    ABCCBA Member

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    @Vrrooom - Please, for your family's safety and for the protection of your investment in your new home and Tesla, call a certified electrician, show him what you have and let him install this correctly! 1/1000 of an amp will kill you. 40A will burn your house to the ground. Ask for professional help, please.
     
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  20. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    The Code addresses both general-purpose infrastructure as well as specialized connections. When you're looking in the wild, you'll come across that special-purpose stuff all the time. For those types of connections, circuits are sized for the specific loads connected. Welders are typically low-duty-cycle devices, so to prevent having to put in huge conductors where they're not needed while keeping the breaker from blowing, it permits that. The breaker still prevents someone from doing something stupid.
     

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