Disappointed with cold-soak battery range (no garage) Or is it just me?

[croman]

Lots of good tips. Those that don't know what cold is -- it got several times below 0F in Chicago last winter and I only exceed 400kwh per mile average once.

The only advice I can add is to try to evenly draw power from the battery (AP is great at this). Don't floor it and then try to regen back as it will be very inefficient at both producing power (sometimes you'll be power limited due to cold as well as regen limited).

Start regen braking far further out than usual. Regen, even if 10kw, will help warm the battery and make your drive more efficient. Since regen will be limited, you'll need more distance to stop but you should be able to capture most of your KE into PE again (and warm the battery in the process).

Consider using the cabin pre-heat from app as it will draw tons of power (6kw for PTC heater!) but if you do it for 15 minutes, you'll only use at most 2kw but it will result in a more efficient drive overall and you'll be happier). Sometimes 2kw makes a big difference on how you feel about losing efficiency in the winter (as in, you'll be warm so you might not care anymore).

My lifetime average after 1 full year (of Chicago weather) is 281wh/mi which is below the rated average. I never use cabin heat when alone but with my child, I use it to take the chill off (and if that's >15 minutes the PTC draw usually drops to 1-2kw so I might keep it on).

Just remember, this isn't even winter yet. You might stop caring about being efficient once it gets truly bitter cold but these things also even out over the year.

 

[Retrospected]

Was 20 F this morning on my ride in New Hampshire. 65 on the highway the car reached 700 wH/m for like 5mins with the heat max, seat warmers max.This was the first 5mins driving after the car being out overnight, off charging.

 

[GWord]

Part of my Tesla thinking was to even minimize my home electric usage during charging since I have good destination charging at work.
My electric isn't super cheap, so my thinking was just use it as little as possible. So that's the only reason. I had a bit of a pie in the sky vision to charge when needed at work since it's zero cost and top up during the weekend.

I do use the seat heater by the way...that warms me from the bottom up, and my morning coffee warms me from the inside out

You can still make this work. Set your car to start charging based on schedule and set the time to sometime after you get to work. You can plug in at home and it won't use your house supply to charge but it will use it to power the heater etc...

 

[RAW84]

I don't understand your logic here on trying to save money by using chargers not at home. I used to commute 50 miles daily, charged EVERY night back to 90%, and my electric bill only went up by $40 per month. It's one thing to be frugal, it's another to "over-burden" yourself for a nominal savings...

Well yanno, different parts of the country have different electric rates.

I did the charge everyday thing last February just to see how much it would cost: it was $150 that month.

 

[S100D]

Thoughts on this? I expected a change in performance in the cold, but it concerns me that it's been this significant so far and we haven't hit the really cold winter weather yet.

As everyone else has said, you will definitely use more power in the winter versus the summer. If you can plug in at home and/or at work, you need to do the following to reduce your energy consumption:

1. Set your charger so that it completes the charging just as you leave for work for if at work, leave for home.
2. You must turn off Range Mode when charging when it is cold. If you do not turn Range Mode off, you will limit the power going to the battery heater. You can turn it back on for you commute but most people forget to turn it off again when charging.
3. Use your seat heaters versus the cabin heater to help save energy.

If you charge completes just prior to driving, you will have regen and you will reduce the power wasted to warm up your battery.

 

[bnsfengineer]

I've had my MS 75D for a few months. Got it late summer. I have roughly a 15 mile commute (each way) to work. During the summer, I'd have to charge up roughly 1-2x per week depending on what errands I ran outside of work. Wasn't a big deal. Now that it's been getting cold-ish (we have had a few nights below freezing), I'm seeing a drastic change in the battery performance. I'm having to charge close to double before. Minimum 3x per week charging to 90%.

I'm pretty sure my issue is that I don't have a garage, so my car sits outside. I get the dashed yellow lines under the regen side of the dial for almost the entire drive in, and my kwh usage has gone from ~300 to ~450.

Thoughts on this? I expected a change in performance in the cold, but it concerns me that it's been this significant so far and we haven't hit the really cold winter weather yet.

I HAVE THE SOLUTION!!! move sorry

 

[isjka]

I'm in a similar situation as the OP - bought S75 just recently and live in a cold climate for winter, daily commute very short distance. I commute to the train station which is only 6.5 miles one way. My car at home is parked in a garage. I live in Chicago and for the past few days the temps in the morning have been near 20 degrees. My car sits unprotected at the station lot for at least 12 hours. Snow, wind, ice, etc. can all occur. Yesterday I "lost" 4 miles of range while the car sat there. I'm trying to determine the best plan of attack for the winter given I can charge at the station and also at home (I'm getting a HPWC installed on the weekend). My charging at home won't cost too much since I pay a variable rate, and in the winter, that rate is close .02/kwh in the overnight hours. Sometimes it's a penny or zero. And, I can park in the charging stall at the train all day since I have a permit.

Is it best to leave the house daily with 90% battery or does that not matter? Is it best to leave the car charging in the lot for x amount of hours to get me to 90%? is it best just to kick in the charging at the train station 30 minutes before I arrive? When should I tun off/om the Range Mode? I can only imagine when the snow hits, I'll need the defrost, heat, etc.

Last night driving home I took the advice of S85D who posted above and used the seat heaters and not the cabin heat. Good advice.

Thanks.

 

[mspohr]

I'm in a similar situation as the OP - bought S75 just recently and live in a cold climate for winter, daily commute very short distance. I commute to the train station which is only 6.5 miles one way. My car at home is parked in a garage. I live in Chicago and for the past few days the temps in the morning have been near 20 degrees. My car sits unprotected at the station lot for at least 12 hours. Snow, wind, ice, etc. can all occur. Yesterday I "lost" 4 miles of range while the car sat there. I'm trying to determine the best plan of attack for the winter given I can charge at the station and also at home (I'm getting a HPWC installed on the weekend). My charging at home won't cost too much since I pay a variable rate, and in the winter, that rate is close .02/kwh in the overnight hours. Sometimes it's a penny or zero. And, I can park in the charging stall at the train all day since I have a permit.

Is it best to leave the house daily with 90% battery or does that not matter? Is it best to leave the car charging in the lot for x amount of hours to get me to 90%? is it best just to kick in the charging at the train station 30 minutes before I arrive? When should I tun off/om the Range Mode? I can only imagine when the snow hits, I'll need the defrost, heat, etc.

Last night driving home I took the advice of S85D who posted above and used the seat heaters and not the cabin heat. Good advice.

Thanks.

Since you have such a short commute, you're not going to run out of charge regardless of cold, snow,etc.
Just charge at home overnight to 90% and you're good. It's easy to just plug it in at home and set it to charge during low rate time.

 

[Don85D]

This might be a case for the classic 'Winter Beater' vehicle added to the fleet. Many people with nice cars store them for a few winter months and run rusty but reliable ICE cars. They are inexpensive to buy and can be discarded when necessary. The insurance savings for a parked Tesla pays for the ICE operation. A winter beater is also ideal when other drivers on the road lack skills in winter driving causing bumper car events. If wrecked just get another winter beater. They are disposable and typically winter driving does not involve long distances, just easy daily commutes. Best of all an ICE generates excess heat that needs to be dumped and that makes it ideal for winter in my opinion.

BTW, only the winter beater needs winter tires which is another savings as in my experience winter tires get little use and become hard long before they wear out. Tesla winter wheels and tires can be eliminated from the cost of operation.

Once Spring arrives re-activate the Model S insurance and park the winter beater for next year or sell it. This is very common practise in Canada at least and a thought for your consideration.

 

[mspohr]

This might be a case for the classic 'Winter Beater' vehicle added to the fleet. Many people with nice cars store them for a few winter months and run rusty but reliable ICE cars. They are inexpensive to buy and can be discarded when necessary. The insurance savings for a parked Tesla pays for the ICE operation. A winter beater is also ideal when other drivers on the road lack skills in winter driving causing bumper car events. If wrecked just get another winter beater. They are disposable and typically winter driving does not involve long distances, just easy daily commutes. Best of all an ICE generates excess heat that needs to be dumped and that makes it ideal for winter in my opinion.

BTW, only the winter beater needs winter tires which is another savings as in my experience winter tires get little use and become hard long before they wear out. Tesla winter wheels and tires can be eliminated from the cost of operation.

Once Spring arrives re-activate the Model S insurance and park the winter beater for next year or sell it. This is very common practise in Canada at least and a thought for your consideration.

That's an option.
I have an 18 year old Land Rover which is a great snow car. Doesn't get many miles on it these days but close to 200000 overall. I don't worry about it if some bozo hits me or I slide off the road. Minimal insurance cost since so little use.

 

[Yinn]

I've had my MS 75D for a few months. Got it late summer. I have roughly a 15 mile commute (each way) to work. During the summer, I'd have to charge up roughly 1-2x per week depending on what errands I ran outside of work. Wasn't a big deal. Now that it's been getting cold-ish (we have had a few nights below freezing), I'm seeing a drastic change in the battery performance. I'm having to charge close to double before. Minimum 3x per week charging to 90%.

I'm pretty sure my issue is that I don't have a garage, so my car sits outside. I get the dashed yellow lines under the regen side of the dial for almost the entire drive in, and my kwh usage has gone from ~300 to ~450.

Thoughts on this? I expected a change in performance in the cold, but it concerns me that it's been this significant so far and we haven't hit the really cold winter weather yet.

It's not so much battery performance as other factors. A lot has already been covered by others, wind density, limited regen, etc. The reality is the air heat. Turn down your air temp by 2 degrees and you'll notice a huge difference in consumption. Turn it off completely and I'll be you'll see consumption rates similar to the summer.

You're in NJ, so consider this. In the hottest month the avg temp is ~77F. If you're comfortable at a 68F, that's a 9 degree difference that your car has to compensate for. Sure, it might get up to 100F for an hour or a day. But on average it's ~77F and you spend 3/12 months above your comfort setting.

In the coldest month of winter, the average temp is 32F where you are. If you're comfortable at a 68F, that's a 36 degree difference your car now needs to make up for - 4 times the amount of what it does in the summer.

This is probably exaggerated more if you have typical commuting hours where you're travelling closer to the low temperatures rather than the highs of the day (69F in July/1F difference; 26F in Jan/42F difference)

Reference: Climate Averages by ZIP Code 07661

 

[eye.surgeon]

Did you know your former ICE car also got much worse mileage in the winter. Chemical reactions whether they be exchange of electrons or igniting fuel and air are generally more efficient at higher temps. But you should definitely be plugging it in overnight.

 

[RDoc]

It's not so much battery performance as other factors. A lot has already been covered by others, wind density, limited regen, etc. The reality is the air heat. Turn down your air temp by 2 degrees and you'll notice a huge difference in consumption. Turn it off completely and I'll be you'll see consumption rates similar to the summer.

You're in NJ, so consider this. In the hottest month the avg temp is ~77F. If you're comfortable at a 68F, that's a 9 degree difference that your car has to compensate for. Sure, it might get up to 100F for an hour or a day. But on average it's ~77F and you spend 3/12 months above your comfort setting.

In the coldest month of winter, the average temp is 32F where you are. If you're comfortable at a 68F, that's a 36 degree difference your car now needs to make up for - 4 times the amount of what it does in the summer.

This is probably exaggerated more if you have typical commuting hours where you're travelling closer to the low temperatures rather than the highs of the day (69F in July/1F difference; 26F in Jan/42F difference)

Reference: Climate Averages by ZIP Code 07661

That's not the case at all. The heater in the car is not a major part of the high consumption when the battery has been cold soaked. It's the battery heater. After the first 15-30 minutes, once the battery has warmed up, even with the heater on in the car the consumption per mile drops significantly.

 

[Brass Guy]

The battery heater and cabin heater add to something like 12kw. That's a lot, and more than my 40A charger can even offset.
Using seat heaters won't make a measureable dent in energy use. Crank them up any time.

1) Plug in each night and use the timer to have the charge finish before you leave. If your daily routine is consistent, set it and forget it.
For me, each day of driving after work is different. To make it easy, each 10% I need takes about an hour (unless you have the HPWC with higher current), and add about an extra half hour for the battery heater if it's going to be cold. For example, if I'm at 55% SOC and I charge to 80%, I leave 7:00 AM, I'll have it start around 4:00.

2) Preheat while plugged in at least 15 minutes before you leave. Keeping the car warm takes much less energy than heating it initially.

If you do those 2 things, you can reduce those heating draws by probably 8-10kw while driving.

 

[aesculus]

A few other notes:

• It only takes a fraction of time to warm up the car vs warming up the battery even though the max consumption for both heaters is the roughly the same.
• You can also control a partial warming of the car and use the seat heaters but you have little control over the battery warming
• Range Mode will reduce battery heating to some extent but not all, especially if the battery is very cold
• The battery heating does not show up on the dash energy display but will be reflected in your loss of SoC/Rated Range
• As noted above end your charge about 15 minutes prior to leaving and then use the mobile app to warm the car after you stop charging if you are on a limited charging source (ie < 40 amps)
• Plugging in to 110V will get you little or no value. You need at least a 240V/30 amp circuit

 

[sauce]

I was under the impression that preconditionning the car while plugged in in the morning before leaving would pre-heat the battery but apparently it does nothing but heat the cabin.

I've tested this the past few days and yesterday and this morning in 0C conditions, cold soaked, pre-conditionnned for 90 minutes, battery was every bit as cold with less than 10kW regen available. Exactly as if I hadn't bothered with pre-conditionning.

THAT is what bothers me. What's the point of preconditioning if it doesn't heat the battery?? I mean sure, comfort inside and all, but on days like today when my customer calI route had me drive for 450km in mountainous terrain, despite being charged to 100% I shot my range to death in the first 30km because the battery was cold. If I had been able to condition it while plugged in at this temperature I would have been able to manage it to (maybe) a quick top off in Drummondville SC while driving back home.

 

[Brian-MS90D]

Range Mode will reduce battery heating to some extent but not all, especially if the battery is very cold

Range mode limits the cabin heater. Tesla has not provided too many details on range mode, but it mostly affects the cooling of the battery. Range mode actually lets the battery get noticeably warmer (think summer time) while in use and therefore extends range by consuming less energy on the battery cooling system, of course at the likely "expense" of some amount of increased battery degradation (again, think summer time). I do not believe range mode limits heating of the battery pack in cold conditions. It only limits cabin climate control in cold conditions.

I was under the impression that preconditionning the car while plugged in in the morning before leaving would pre-heat the battery but apparently it does nothing but heat the cabin.

When people refer to preconditioning the car/battery, they really mean taking two steps. One, preheat the cabin as you have described. Two and more importantly, charge the battery (which activates the battery heater, especially when charging at 40 amps or higher). Set your charge start timer to begin so that charging completes right when you are ready to depart.

 

[aesculus]

I was under the impression that preconditionning the car while plugged in in the morning before leaving would pre-heat the battery but apparently it does nothing but heat the cabin.

I was too. What volt/amps were you connected at?

 

[sauce]

I was too. What volt/amps were you connected at?

My wall connector is set to 80A, but actual on-board is 48A.

 

[sauce]

When people refer to preconditioning the car/battery, they really mean taking two steps. One, preheat the cabin as you have described. Two and more importantly, charge the battery (which activates the battery heater, especially when charging at 40 amps or higher). Set your charge start timer to begin so that charging completes right when you are ready to depart.

Interesting. Is there not a way to just activate the battery heater independently of charging? I don't have a regular daily commute. I may travel 10km one day and then 500km the next. This obviously makes it not impossible but certainly impractical to preprogram (even on a daily basis) charging.

I'd much rather be able to wake up in the morning and start the battery heater then and when I get in the car the battery's ready to go at a reasonable kW consumption. Is that too much of a stretch?