Discussion: Model 3 and Y price drop Jan 2023 / April 2023 / Oct 2023 and All other Pricing Speculation going forward

[240vPlug]

Hey, it's a brilliant move on the part of Ford. Honestly. They probably saw what Tesla did and how upset people became and then lowered their prices and did what everybody was hoping Tesla would do just to show Tesla up.

Ford follows Tesla’s lead, cuts prices on Mustang Mach-E

Ford is increasing production in North America and Europe by 67% to meet demand.

arstechnica.com

 

[240vPlug]

Have you driven a Ford lately?

 

[flgatorfan]

Oh, now it's not that it wasn't possible. LOL. What, exactly, did they say then? Either they said they couldn't, or they shouldn't. Which is it? If they said Tesla shouldn't, then they're a hypocrite (at minimum). Have they ever returned something? Have they ever price matched something? Exactly. I am sure they have. So they take advantage of it when it benefits them personally, but then advocate for others not to have that opportunity when the difference is $13,000 (or $20,500) instead of $25 on their Walmart return. Yikes. Scary.

A private offer is something of value to try and make up for a substantial price drop after a recent purchase.

Feel free to read back through the thread if you like. Since when does Walmart sell cars?

I was asking what exactly Ford was offering, not what they were doing in concept...

 

[WyoDude]

Oh, now it's not that it wasn't possible. LOL. What, exactly, did they say then? Either they said they couldn't, or they shouldn't. Which is it? If they said Tesla shouldn't, then they're a hypocrite (at minimum). Have they ever returned something? Have they ever price matched something? Exactly. I am sure they have. So they take advantage of it when it benefits them personally, but then advocate for others not to have that opportunity when the difference is $13,000 (or $20,500) instead of $25 on their Walmart return. Yikes. Scary.

A private offer is something of value to try and make up for a substantial price drop after a recent purchase.

If they reimbursed buyers from Jan 1st forward would you be happy right now?

 

[woolymammoth17]

Feel free to read back through the thread if you like. Since when does Walmart sell cars?

I was asking what exactly Ford was offering, not what they were doing in concept...

Not sure how you got "Walmart sells cars" out of the post.

Best of luck to you.

 

[woolymammoth17]

If they reimbursed buyers from Jan 1st forward would you be happy right now?

I would be happy if they offered SOMETHING to some people who were damaged with the sudden and drastic price cuts, yes.

 

[WyoDude]

I would be happy if they offered SOMETHING to some people who were damaged with the sudden and drastic price cuts, yes.

That’s cool. I think a lot people who bought in 2022 would be upset still.

In the Mach E forums people are upset they didn’t discount the lightening, they didn’t cut prices more, none of the long range battery configs are low enough to qualify, they didn’t reimburse people who bought in Q4, only the Select trim qualifies but most people want the higher trims, etc. Seems Ford buyers are way more ungrateful.

Smart PR move by Ford that probably cost them 5-15 million. Tesla should have probably forked out a couple hundred million to make some people happy.

 

[WyoDude]

I would be happy if they offered SOMETHING to some people who were damaged with the sudden and drastic price cuts, yes.

Also, did you know that over 2021 and 2022 when Ford increases prices on the Mach E they increased the price for people who already had purchased but not taken delivery yet. And they were averaging an 6-12 month timeline. And many dealers were charging markups on top of MSRP.

Hmmm that doesn’t sound very customer friendly.

 

[BitJam]

Smart PR move by Ford that probably cost them 5-15 million. Tesla should have probably forked out a couple hundred million to make some people happy.

There is a significant difference. Ford is not planning to do much pricing cutting in the future but Tesla is. If it's a one-off or rare event then giving a refund to previous buyer makes sense for PR. But if you want to eventually bring EVs to the masses, you will need to make further price cuts. Giving refunds now either locks you into giving refunds in the future or pissing off a much larger number of people in the future.

Many of Tesla's decisions that seem capricious make sense when you factor in their planned exponential growth. Next year's customers are a higher priority than last year's customers. The early S and X adopters of FSD got screwed. But compared to the size of the current customer base, it's a small number of people. Not retrofitting HW4 to HW3 vehicles is similar. Tesla is optimizing for future customers, not past customers. If they can maintain an average annual growth rate of 50% then this is the only approach that makes sense.

This policy was clear to me a year and a half ago when I bought a Model Y. I was willing to potentially spend more for less back then in order to help our society make the transition to EVs and a more sustainable future. Perhaps it's a stretch but I think it's better to see yourself as a hero or benefactor rather than a dupe.

 

[WyoDude]

There is a significant difference. Ford is not planning to do much pricing cutting in the future but Tesla is. If it's a one-off or rare event then giving a refund to previous buyer makes sense for PR. But if you want to eventually bring EVs to the masses, you will need to make further price cuts. Giving refunds now either locks you into giving refunds in the future or pissing off a much larger number of people in the future.

Many of Tesla's decisions that seem capricious make sense when you factor in their planned exponential growth. Next year's customers are a higher priority than last year's customers. The early S and X adopters of FSD got screwed. But compared to the size of the current customer base, it's a small number of people. Not retrofitting HW4 to HW3 vehicles is similar. Tesla is optimizing for future customers, not past customers. If they can maintain an average annual growth rate of 50% then this is the only approach that makes sense.

This policy was clear to me a year and a half ago when I bought a Model Y. I was willing to potentially spend more for less back then in order to help our society make the transition to EVs and a more sustainable future. Perhaps it's a stretch but I think it's better to see yourself as a hero or benefactor rather than a dupe.

Don’t you think Tesla could figure out a way to make all previous buyers happy though and just accept that by doing so, bankruptcy might just be an option?

I think at the end of the day, that’s all previous buyers are asking for.

 

[Niroc]

There is a significant difference. Ford is not planning to do much pricing cutting in the future but Tesla is. If it's a one-off or rare event then giving a refund to previous buyer makes sense for PR. But if you want to eventually bring EVs to the masses, you will need to make further price cuts. Giving refunds now either locks you into giving refunds in the future or pissing off a much larger number of people in the future.

Many of Tesla's decisions that seem capricious make sense when you factor in their planned exponential growth. Next year's customers are a higher priority than last year's customers. The early S and X adopters of FSD got screwed. But compared to the size of the current customer base, it's a small number of people. Not retrofitting HW4 to HW3 vehicles is similar. Tesla is optimizing for future customers, not past customers. If they can maintain an average annual growth rate of 50% then this is the only approach that makes sense.

This policy was clear to me a year and a half ago when I bought a Model Y. I was willing to potentially spend more for less back then in order to help our society make the transition to EVs and a more sustainable future. Perhaps it's a stretch but I think it's better to see yourself as a hero or benefactor rather than a dupe.

This post makes me want to throw another tire on the fire.

There are many, many Americans who are not going to "transition" over to an EV. But I am sure our unelected elitist will demand that everyone comply to their Utopian new world order.

 

[WyoDude]

This post makes me want to throw another tire on the fire.

There are many, many Americans who are not going to "transition" over to an EV. But I am sure our unelected elitist will demand that everyone comply to their Utopian new world order.

You don’t think many will transition ever? And what qualifies as “many, many”? 30%? 50%? 70%?

 

[240vPlug]

Seems like 10,000 free supercharger miles wouldn't cost Tesla much. Why not offer customers that to keep them loyal to Tesla? While I don't think folks should panic I do understand why someone who paid 69k for a MYP which dropped to 56k overnight would be upset It was 63k when I ordered so $7,000! More than current price. I'm not happy about it but I'm going to continue to drive and enjoy it.

 

[woolymammoth17]

Don’t you think Tesla could figure out a way to make all previous buyers happy though and just accept that by doing so, bankruptcy might just be an option?

I think at the end of the day, that’s all previous buyers are asking for.

Right. Because they are risking bankruptcy by doing something fair for very recent customers when they have the highest margins in the auto industry by 3-5x. Good try, though.

 

[sunwarriors]

Also, did you know that over 2021 and 2022 when Ford increases prices on the Mach E they increased the price for people who already had purchased but not taken delivery yet. And they were averaging an 6-12 month timeline. And many dealers were charging markups on top of MSRP.

Hmmm that doesn’t sound very customer friendly.

This is actually false if you read their forums. Orders from earlier years had private offers to make them pay the older price or even lower in some cases. I'd say very very few dealers had markups to screw people, but the majority of people who ordered had their original price.

I think I was debating some folks here when the Bolt cut prices and GM gave them $6k back, but you had to sign some paper you won't sue GM. I'd sign in an instant for $6k back. Tesla's catch fire too and would you sign if Tesla gave you $20k back?

Bottom line is still people who took delivery within 30 days got the difference back and it's still something that Tesla didn't do.

Don't know why the hate from you that Ford is doing that. No need to slam a competitor when like someone else said, will cost Tesla not much, but probably very bad PR and a lot of upset folks. It could've been 1 day and someone paid $20k more, but oh well, too bad for you. Just suck it up and enjoy your car (that instantly depreciated $13k if you get it totaled).

 

[sunwarriors]

Next year's customers are a higher priority than last year's customers.

It's one thing when it's next years or a few years down the line for price drops, etc. I missed out on thousands doing solar in 2021, but didn't complain about it because those are the rules and I got guaranteed NEM2.0 and it was months from the change/new policy, but I do feel for folks who bought 1 day before the $20k price drop.

It does leave a pretty bad taste in buyer's mouths, but that's how Tesla rolls and agree with you Tesla is the more, tough deal buyers right? We're in it for the masses, you don't mean much as an individual to the overall company.

That's all fine though, people should just expect it buying a Tesla. I think S/X prices may have more likelihood to drop or they won't make them as much since inventory is starting to build up more now.

 

[arbitrage000]

I think it is difficult to define a cutoff date for giving people compensation due to the price increase. Where would Tesla draw the line? December deliveries got a pretty good deal. Some November orders (especially MYP with quick turnaround) paid just as much as early Jan deliveries. October and earlier deliveries were mostly orders placed in Feb-May so we paid ~7K less than new Nov or Jan order/deliveries. There will always be someone feeling screwed over no matter what cutoff Tesla would come up with. So they probably have just decided to do nothing.

I feel that the only cutoff that may be somewhat fair would be compensation for deliveries that happened Jan 1st - Jan 12th. Those with no December discount and likely paid the highest price. I don't think anyone else is really entitled to compensation. Tesla really should not have left those 12 days without discount. They should have continued the December discount or just reduced the price on Jan 1st.

 

[WyoDude]

This is actually false if you read their forums. Orders from earlier years had private offers to make them pay the older price or even lower in some cases. I'd say very very few dealers had markups to screw people, but the majority of people who ordered had their original price.

I think I was debating some folks here when the Bolt cut prices and GM gave them $6k back, but you had to sign some paper you won't sue GM. I'd sign in an instant for $6k back. Tesla's catch fire too and would you sign if Tesla gave you $20k back?

Bottom line is still people who took delivery within 30 days got the difference back and it's still something that Tesla didn't do.

Don't know why the hate from you that Ford is doing that. No need to slam a competitor when like someone else said, will cost Tesla not much, but probably very bad PR and a lot of upset folks. It could've been 1 day and someone paid $20k more, but oh well, too bad for you. Just suck it up and enjoy your car (that instantly depreciated $13k if you get it totaled).

Everything I said it from the Mach E forums. It’s not false. In fact some of what you said supports the points I was making. Not hating Ford just pointing out the flaws in peoples thinking and arguments.

 

[woolymammoth17]

Still waiting for the apologies from all of the people that were proven completely wrong by Ford's move. A car is a commodity. A mass produced, identical item. It is NOT like real estate, and is much more like a TV at Best Buy than they would have admitted before.

I guess when their argument (a car maker could/would/should never offer anything to very recent buyers after a price drop) was proven wrong, they can't handle it so they make wild claims about Tesla going bankrupt if they did it and then make inane arguments about how because they are personally unsure of what the cut off date should be then there should be no cut off date.

The internet is a wild place, but at least it's entertaining to see.

 

[woolymammoth17]

I think it is difficult to define a cutoff date for giving people compensation due to the price increase. Where would Tesla draw the line? December deliveries got a pretty good deal. Some November orders (especially MYP with quick turnaround) paid just as much as early Jan deliveries. October and earlier deliveries were mostly orders placed in Feb-May so we paid ~7K less than new Nov or Jan order/deliveries. There will always be someone feeling screwed over no matter what cutoff Tesla would come up with. So they probably have just decided to do nothing.

I feel that the only cutoff that may be somewhat fair would be compensation for deliveries that happened Jan 1st - Jan 12th. Those with no December discount and likely paid the highest price. I don't think anyone else is really entitled to compensation. Tesla really should not have left those 12 days without discount. They should have continued the December discount or just reduced the price on Jan 1st.

Most certainly the Jan 1 to Jan 12 buyers should get something. From $9k off to nothing off to $13k (or $20.5k with tax credit) off, and then to offer nothing to the in between buyers is pretty evil.