Do brake lights always turn on with regen? (incl gap to other cars)

[Lloyd]

Toyota has done this a little different than Tesla. (Let me know if you get tired if me putting Rav stuff in the threads). When you let off the accelerator you get a modest amount of regen, either in the D, (lower regen) or B (more agressive regen with zero throttle). Then when you put on the brake, it adds more regen for about the first 3/4 inch or so of brake travel, and thats when the brake lights come on. Additional brake pressure then causes the calipers to engage. I like the way they did this! Very smooth, and well thought out.

I can get off the freeway, and using light brake pressure, allmost all of the braking is done by the regen. I can get out of the car and touch the rotors, and they are barely warm. Amazing!!

 

[Doug_G]

Personally I don't mind the Rav4 comparisons.

Most cars that have regen on the brake pedal do it the same way - partial on the accelerator and the rest on the brake. The problem has always been making the transition smooth, and it sounds like they have solved that.

On the other hand, I still prefer it on the accelerator. In traffic you are mostly doing one-foot driving, which is smooth and natural. They're just trying to make an EV feel like an ICE car. I can see the reasoning there but IMHO the EV experience is better.

 

[Babylonfive]

Toyota has done this a little different than Tesla. (Let me know if you get tired if me putting Rav stuff in the threads). When you let off the accelerator you get a modest amount of regen, either in the D, (lower regen) or B (more agressive regen with zero throttle). Then when you put on the brake, it adds more regen for about the first 3/4 inch or so of brake travel, and thats when the brake lights come on. Additional brake pressure then causes the calipers to engage. I like the way they did this! Very smooth, and well thought out.

I can get off the freeway, and using light brake pressure, allmost all of the braking is done by the regen. I can get out of the car and touch the rotors, and they are barely warm. Amazing!!

The comparisons are apt, and especially so because of how good a job Toyota has done on their version. +1

 

[v12 to 12v]

Personally I don't mind the Rav4 comparisons.

Most cars that have regen on the brake pedal do it the same way - partial on the accelerator and the rest on the brake. The problem has always been making the transition smooth, and it sounds like they have solved that.

On the other hand, I still prefer it on the accelerator. In traffic you are mostly doing one-foot driving, which is smooth and natural. They're just trying to make an EV feel like an ICE car. I can see the reasoning there but IMHO the EV experience is better.

If there was selection that you could choose so that the regen "brake" light sensitivity is appropriate for the conditions you are operating under, that would be optimal.
Maybe a a city setting for dense traffic conditons, and an open highway setting for sparse traffic conditions would be adequate.
After all, these are some of the very first cars that will be able to travel beyond city limits.

 

[Doug_G]

If there was selection that you could choose so that the regen "brake" light sensitivity is appropriate for the conditions you are operating under, that would be optimal.
Maybe a a city setting for dense traffic conditons, and an open highway setting for sparse traffic conditions would be adequate.
After all, these are some of the very first cars that will be able to travel beyond city limits.

I don't really see why I would ever prefer regen-on-brake, personally. I love the Roadster driving experience.

 

[Lloyd]

I don't really see why I would ever prefer regen-on-brake, personally. I love the Roadster driving experience.

I've driven both, and I know what you mean, I like the Roadster experience, but this is better!! In the 'B' mode, you get the best of the Roadster experience, but more regen when you start braking. It would be too much to put it all on the accelerator. If you are in my area, stop by and you can take it for a spin!!

 

[v12 to 12v]

The air suspension's "jump" button, for managing bears and other obstacles on the road...

It definitely isn't just bear that we need to jump over.
Video: Why did the salmon cross the road? | Offbeat | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

 

[FlasherZ]

There is another reason to keep brake lights from turning on during regen -- some police officers use your brake lights as a subconscious factor in determining whether he should come after you or not. If you come screaming toward the officer, see him, then lift from the accelerator as you pass him, you don't want the brake lights coming on. That gives him the idea that you knew you were speeding and were slowing down to become compliant. This is why the best of the best in ticket avoidance don't use their brakes (that nasty downward pitch of the nose also is a tell-tale) but rather use a bit of engine braking in the next lower gear while lifting from the accelerator.

While it will take years to retrain officers when it comes to brake-lights-on-regen, today we have to live within their tendencies.

 

[Norbert]

Then when you put on the brake, it adds more regen for about the first 3/4 inch or so of brake travel, and thats when the brake lights come on.

That means the lights come on depending on the power of regen used, whereas what I've heard from the Model S is that it measures actual slow down, and the lights come on only if slow down is more than a certain amount. To me that sounds like it makes more sense for cars following you..

Though perhaps you might want a different threshold depending on where it currently is, but the post we are responding to, didn't describe where the threshold is.

 

[ElSupreme]

There is another reason to keep brake lights from turning on during regen -- some police officers use your brake lights as a subconscious factor in determining whether he should come after you or not. If you come screaming toward the officer, see him, then lift from the accelerator as you pass him, you don't want the brake lights coming on. That gives him the idea that you knew you were speeding and were slowing down to become compliant. This is why the best of the best in ticket avoidance don't use their brakes (that nasty downward pitch of the nose also is a tell-tale) but rather use a bit of engine braking in the next lower gear while lifting from the accelerator.

While it will take years to retrain officers when it comes to brake-lights-on-regen, today we have to live within their tendencies.

Yeah that is what a parking brake is ... hmm!

My regular downshift 2 gears, and parking brake (if necessary) system is foiled!

 

[v12 to 12v]

Yeah that is what a parking brake is ... hmm!

My regular downshift 2 gears, and parking brake (if necessary) system is foiled!

I shift my transmission from Economy mode to Sport mode and that slows me right down.

 

[Timothy]

At night I can see the red glow in my rear view mirror on my Roadster (easy to see on my Fusion Red, also any light colored car). During the day there is no way to tell... but that said, I've had enough night driving experience to have a pretty good idea of when it turns on and when it does not.

It would be nice to have a little glowing "brake light" dot somewhere on the instrument cluster, though.

I agree 100%

 

[strider]

I would hate having a light on the dash to tell me when my brake lights are on. There's enough crap flying around and flashing at me while driving these days, I don't want to add anything else.

I've driven a Roadster for 2 years. My wife has followed me in her car. I've followed my wife driving the Roadster. No one has ever complained that the brake lights come on too often nor have I ever been rear-ended. The brake lights work - just let them do their thing and you concentrate on what's in front of you.

 

[Lloyd]

I would hate having a light on the dash to tell me when my brake lights are on. There's enough crap flying around and flashing at me while driving these days, I don't want to add anything else.

I've driven a Roadster for 2 years. My wife has followed me in her car. I've followed my wife driving the Roadster. No one has ever complained that the brake lights come on too often nor have I ever been rear-ended. The brake lights work - just let them do their thing and you concentrate on what's in front of you.

Exactly, you want a dark dash (no warning lights) unless there is something that needs your attention.

 

[Velo1]

Exactly, you want a dark dash (no warning lights) unless there is something that needs your attention.

Well, this is where in an innovative car like the S there should be an option for the user to have a brake-light indicator or not. Just like user preferences for many other features on any computer, mobile devices, Tesla S Touchscreen, etc.

Incidentally, nobody has mentioned it or asked, but is their industry standards that have criteria for when brakes lights must come on, with any vehicle? Seems if there are, then that is what the S should follow. Maybe this question is too logical.:wink:

 

[ElSupreme]

Incidentally, nobody has mentioned it or asked, but is their industry standards that have criteria for when brakes lights must come on, with any vehicle? Seems if there are, then that is what the S should follow. Maybe this question is too logical.:wink:

I don't think so. I can downshift to 2nd and pull a parking brake and stop pretty quickly without lights kicking on.

 

[markb1]

When I drove the Model S, I noticed that when there was an image of the car on the touch screen, the image mimicked the turn signals, but not the brake lights.

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe it was just the headlights that were mimicked.

 

[Vger]

I don't think so. I can downshift to 2nd and pull a parking brake and stop pretty quickly without lights kicking on.

And that is why Tesla's solution of actually measuring the deceleration of the car is the better solution. If I just touch the brake pedal in an ICE car, I am actually giving a false alarm to the car behind me. When a Tesla's brake lights come on, it is because the car is actually decelerating, and hence becoming a potential hazard to the car following.

 

[markwj]

Well, this is where in an innovative car like the S there should be an option for the user to have a brake-light indicator or not. Just like user preferences for many other features on any computer, mobile devices, Tesla S Touchscreen, etc.

Incidentally, nobody has mentioned it or asked, but is their industry standards that have criteria for when brakes lights must come on, with any vehicle? Seems if there are, then that is what the S should follow. Maybe this question is too logical.:wink:

I think the issue is that this feature is controlled by each country's regulations, not driver preference.

Think about it for an ICE car - would it be ok to have a switch to control whether the brake lights come on or not? Or less extreme how far you have to depress the pedal before they come on? I think not - because this is a safety issue,

In at least one country the regulations state the brake lights can only come on when the brake pedal is depressed. Tesla has to disable the deceleration brake light switch to meet those regulations.

 

[brianman]

Well, this is where in an innovative car like the S there should be an option for the user to have a brake-light indicator or not. Just like user preferences for many other features on any computer, mobile devices, Tesla S Touchscreen, etc.

Would an indicator on the 17" be enough for your purposes, Velo1? If so, perhaps an app could be written at some point.