Do you enjoy using "Autosteer on city streets" (current pre-release FSD) -- a poll

[Whoze]

Take your pick! Some insist that only Autopilot works on highways even when you have FSD beta such as in the 8 car pile up in San Franciso.

"Then of course there is the fact that the Tesla was travelling along a five lane highway

I stole this cartoon just to point out that you have a vendetta against Autopilot on just about everything I have read you post. It was the cars behind the Tesla that caused the pile-up. Any car can malfunction and stop on a freeway lane, like my good old Buick. QUIT BEING A TROLL< COME BACK TO EARTH< WE WILL ACCEPT YOU BACK AGAIN< AND HAVE A HUMAN CONVERSATION!

 

[Harriscott]

FSD beta is great entertainment, but spouse passenger does not see it that way. So I only use it on solo trips.

Spouse is not entirely happy with highway AP either, because it doesn't shy away from semi trucks. Apparently 11.3.1 addresses that so I'm hopeful that our long road trips will have fewer "you drive" incidents.

 

[B_E_V]

I love FSD as a driver ASSISTANCE system. I rarely try to make it drive me the whole way.

My home street doesn't have lane markings, and FSD often has a hard time figuring out the edge of the road. So I almost always drive manually down my own road. Then I hit a state numbered route with lane markings, turn on FSD, and get to relax.

However, I briefly turn off FSD for many reasons.

• At a multiple way stop sign intersection or other situation where eye contact with other drivers is desirable.
• Going through a round-about if other cars are present.
• An intersection with multiple turning lanes where I don't want to be in the lane FSD always picks.
• Any situation where I think courtesy to other drivers requires me to signal a turn much early than FSD signals turns.
• Most unmarked roads.
• Around children (though I'm starting the think FSD is a more cautious driver around vulnerable road users than I am).
• Any situation with a traffic control officer.
• Most situations where workers have safety cones deployed, or are parked in a travel lane.
• Any fun or winding section of road.
• Any non-public road situation, such as a parking lot, or driveway.
• Often when there is bad weather, especially slick snow covered roads when I want to use Off Road Assist instead.
• Any time FSD makes me uncomfortable with how it is driving.
• Any time I think I will be safer if I am driving. (Though I often find supervising FSD would have been even safer.)
• Freeway ramps where the yellow suggested speed is significantly different from the legal speed limit.
• When I know I can negotiate some complex set of turns and/or intersections faster than FSD and I am in a hurry.

I also "help" FSD from time to time by hitting the accelerator, or signalling a lane change. Since I don't think the Tesla maximum follow distance is always safe or always courteous, I often manually adjust my max speed to maintain a longer follow distance.

It helps that most of my driving is over suburban routes I have traveled many times before, and with each FSD release I quickly learn where FSD is going to struggle. Ironically, I am MORE prone to let FSD do almost all the driving when I am going somewhere I have never been before.

While I dream of the day that I can read a book or watch a video while my car drives me to my destination, FSD is nowhere near ready for that. However, in my old car I used dumb cruise control whenever I thought it would improve my driving experience. I follow the same rule with FSD.

 

[nvx1977]

I don't understand how anyone can believe it's not going backwards.

It's because not everyone had your experience when radar was removed. The system got better for me (no more phantom braking at overpasses and signage). Also, if you're referring to highway driving (which is out of scope for this thread), the codebase has been pretty much untouched for about 4 years. FSDb was the rewrite that is about to make it to the whole fleet with v11.

 

[nvx1977]

If I were forced to use FSDb for every single drive, it would not be enjoyable. That I have the choice to engage it when I want to rely on it, or just to see how it handles certain situations makes it enjoyable. I like tech, and even if FSDb is far from perfect, I like watching its evolution. I don't necessarily need it to make driving easier at its current state of development, but I am optimistic that it will get there. It's the journey that I'm deriving enjoyment from, not the current objective performance of the system.

 

[dgatwood]

Take your pick! Some insist that only Autopilot works on highways even when you have FSD beta such as in the 8 car pile up in San Franciso.

"Then of course there is the fact that the Tesla was travelling along a five lane highway, a type of road where FSD Beta cannot be engaged and where only Tesla’s Autopilot can be activated."

FSD beta engages at some difficult exit ramps even on highways where Autopilot would typically be engaged. At the same time, the FSD beta stack is not responsible for highway driving most of the time — only at exits where Navigate on Autopilot is unsupported (whether you are taking the exit or not, incidentally).

So both statements are simultaneously correct.

 

[generalmilk]

Many of us have now used FSD-Beta pre-release extensively, operating on city streets with full time driver attention required. GM is releasing a similar product in UltraCruise and other companies have it in the works. The question of the poll -- we all find it interesting, but do you find driving this way a desirable and relaxing experience, they way you enjoy Autopilot on Freeways, or if you use it, are you mostly just trying it out and hoping for a full-release FSD that doesn't require driver attention? In the questions below, to say you "Like" a system is to say it makes driving more enjoyable or relaxing and you would pay a decent price to have it in your car. The first two answers are for people who have paid for FSD in their car, even if just for a month to try it. The poll is for Tesla drivers who have at least AP.

(Don't put much focus on what was promised vs. what was delivered, or on whether the driver monitoring is hands-on or hands-off. The question is more whether having the car do most of the driving while you watch and sometimes intervene is pleasant, and if that changes between city streets and freeway.)

Hey Brad. Love your insight on self driving cars. I voted first option. FSD has a steep learning curve but once you mastered it, it’s gonna be very helpful. It is a better AP, just accept it can’t do everything well and correct often.

 

[bradtem]

Hey Brad. Love your insight on self driving cars. I voted first option. FSD has a steep learning curve but once you mastered it, it’s gonna be very helpful. It is a better AP, just accept it can’t do everything well and correct often.

Well, while this is a self-selected survey so I can't conclude too much, and both views are well represented, I did not expect "I like it" to be 2:1 over not liking it and just trying it out. Of course this is people who spent a lot of money (though sometimes only $200) for it though in many cases they spent that money for what it promises to be in the future, not what it is now -- but many new buyers may well focus on what it is now.

Either way it suggests there is a market for monitored city street driving, though more study is needed to figure what people would pay for that.

 

[generalmilk]

Well, while this is a self-selected survey so I can't conclude too much, and both views are well represented, I did not expect "I like it" to be 2:1 over not liking it and just trying it out. Of course this is people who spent a lot of money (though sometimes only $200) for it though in many cases they spent that money for what it promises to be in the future, not what it is now -- but many new buyers may well focus on what it is now.

Either way it suggests there is a market for monitored city street driving, though more study is needed to figure what people would pay for that.

If the city street is just like NYC downtown, I’d vote no. However it helped me on a lot of. Suburb drives especially road trips involving long segments of 2 lane road. AP wasn’t too good there.

 

[bradtem]

One reason people generally like AP is that the roads are not complex, no sharp turns etc. Everything is fairly predictable, which in turn makes it easy to see if the car is doing something it should not do. Any sharp turn is an error in Autopilot, but in FSD it may be part of the plan. But may are still enjoying driving with it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Well, while this is a self-selected survey so I can't conclude too much, and both views are well represented, I did not expect "I like it" to be 2:1 over not liking it and just trying it out. Of course this is people who spent a lot of money (though sometimes only $200) for it though in many cases they spent that money for what it promises to be in the future, not what it is now -- but many new buyers may well focus on what it is now.

Either way it suggests there is a market for monitored city street driving, though more study is needed to figure what people would pay for that.

Tons of selection bias for sure.

Regarding hands on wheel vs. attention they seem exactly the same to me with the exception of the poor Tesla implementation which can probably be fixed if they get serious about the cabin camera (which can see neither hands nor wheel but can definitely do the job, no question).

Anyway if it isn’t entirely eyes off, there is nowhere for your hands but the wheel, so I don’t really see the issue with that part of it (other than the specific implementation as I said).

Six of one, half dozen of the other vs. eyes-only monitoring.

Overall wish the poll had been more clear in the options that you were asking whether FSDb was enjoyable & relaxing. As you said in the OP. There is a pretty big difference between “liking while monitoring” (what most selected) vs. it “making driving more enjoyable [and] relaxing [and desirable] (what you were asking).

 

[arnolddeleon]

I was quite skeptical that I would find utility for autosteer on city streets. I initially was trying it to see what it was like. I was surprised to find it useful even as a driver assist. I thought it would need to get unsupervised for it to be worth anything on city streets.

 

[Whoze]

Check the speed limit display. It probably thought it was a 10mph limit. Unfortunately the NHTSA 'recall' is going to make this behavior worse and force adherence to speed limit by slowing down beforehand even more.

Road is clearly marked as 20mph and it did slow down from a previous 30mph zone. The speed limit did show up clearly on the display. That particular section of the road has a left bend, so I am thinking that AP thinks the parked vehicles are opposition direction cars and heading towards me.
Another issue I had was when it did brake hard and gave a collision warning (enough for my phone to fly off the armrest) when a big pickup truck pulled into the left lane (I was in the right lane) further down on the two-lane section. It would have scared grandma, but many of us would probably not have batted an eyelid given the slow 20mph. Either way, This is a really messed up section of road.
The road was a two-lane the same width all the way down. Then they introduced parking lanes left or right and made it into two lanes. Further down the road it switches to a three-lane with no increase in the width of the road by narrowing down the lanes. This seems confusing for many drivers as I see them wave all over the place trying to decide if they are in one lane or the other. Sometimes, I even see cars driving in the "parking lanes" only to skip back into the real lane after they realize it comes to an abrupt end.
On the same road, the car just refuses to accelerate from 20 to 30mph in a timely manner even though the 30mph is clearly displayed on the screen, then it will suddenly accelerate fast, not until other cars start honking!
And on another stretch of road, I had to take over AP as it was going too fast to negotiate a 70-ish degree left bend even at 30 mph. It was a close call. This particular stretch is well-defined with lane markings and curbs.
I think the neighborhood hates me now! Haha!

 

[EVNow]

Hmm. Not trying to ask about your hands but your eyes. Is a product where, from time to time, you must grab the wheel, and thus you must watch at all times, a pleasant driving experience? I guess I should have asked whether hands-on/off made the difference but the key one is eyes on/off.

Absolutely yes. I use FSD every chance and miss it sorely when it’s not available because off heavy rain (I should say in 90% of Seattle rain it works).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

when it’s not available because off heavy rain (I should say in 90% of Seattle rain it works).

Try wiper setting 2 and report back whether it disables. Not sure! I guess I will find out next week here probably.

 

[EVNow]

Try wiper setting 2 and report back whether it disables. Not sure! I guess I will find out next week here probably.

I can try .. but why would I ? I usually have it on auto, anyway.

ps : For those who don’t know we tend to get light rain, but more often, In Seattle.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I can try .. but why would I ?

Because you said you miss it (sorely!) when it is unavailable! This is an easy way to make it available again a larger percentage of the time. (If it works reliably, which is TBD. Presumably if the rain is really bad it might disable anyway. But I think 2 likely works in most cases, based on brief testing in the rain.)

Maybe if the rain is hard enough it doesn’t respect the setting, and uses a higher setting - in which case there would in theory be minimal benefit (though there would be some, since if this behavior exists, wiping at 2 likely suppresses higher wipe speeds somewhat). No idea.

 

[EVNow]

Because you said you miss it (sorely!) when it is unavailable! This is an easy way to make it available again a larger percentage of the time. (If it works reliably, which is TBD. Presumably if the rain is really bad it might disable anyway. But I think 2 likely works in most cases, based on brief testing in the rain.)

Maybe if the rain is hard enough it doesn’t respect the setting, and uses a higher setting - in which case there would in theory be minimal benefit (though there would be some). No idea.

I just saw your other post. Will definitely try it out … thx.

As luck would have it, we have a dry spell now

 

[Whoze]

Tons of selection bias for sure.

Regarding hands on wheel vs. attention they seem exactly the same to me with the exception of the poor Tesla implementation which can probably be fixed if they get serious about the cabin camera (which can see neither hands nor wheel but can definitely do the job, no question).

Anyway if it isn’t entirely eyes off, there is nowhere for your hands but the wheel, so I don’t really see the issue with that part of it (other than the specific implementation as I said).

Six of one, half dozen of the other vs. eyes-only monitoring.

Overall wish the poll had been more clear in the options that you were asking whether FSDb was enjoyable & relaxing. As you said in the OP. There is a pretty big difference between “liking while monitoring” (what most selected) vs. it “making driving more enjoyable [and] relaxing [and desirable] (what you were asking).

I agree with you on the poor implementation of "hands on steering wheel". I get so many cautions when my hands are clearly on the steering wheel. It is annoying having to tug on the steering wheel all the time. But, camera on face is just intrusive. What if you are like my friend who insists on covering her entire face with a scarf and wears sunglasses? - she has skin cancer paranoia!
A camera aimed at the steering wheel would work just fine. It would eliminate all the gimmicks that people try - no squeeze balls, no cats or dogs.

 

[EVNow]

I just saw your other post. Will definitely try it out … thx.

As luck would have it, we have a dry spell now

@AlanSubie4Life Today, as soon as it started raining, I changed the wipers from auto to 1 (and then 2). Worked fine - no "FSD degraded" message. It wasn't raining hard - so will have to check when it does rain heavily what happens if I keep the setting at 2.