Yeah, I just wanted confirmation that the blue sky is indeed blue. What a great marketing and sales scam FSD has been. Some might say that’s too harsh and I blame myself at least 60% for believing in a loosely specified product. At the time the koolaid was delicious.
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FSD Owners - Do any of you prefer leaving it off?
- Thread starter MacO512
- Start date
agree with most of you guys. Freeway FSD is amazing, once you setup minimize lane changes and turn on/off HOV depending if you have a passenger or not. On the street it can make a turn but feels like someone with torrets (its not smooth) is driving.
The lastest update has not been good for stop and go traffic. It stops too early and abruptly. I hope they fix it soon because FSD for stop and go traffic is a relief on my mental capital.
The lastest update has not been good for stop and go traffic. It stops too early and abruptly. I hope they fix it soon because FSD for stop and go traffic is a relief on my mental capital.
Agree, currently local driving with FSD is loaded with sudden, jerky, clumsy changes in steering that are just plain scary. It's awful, and freaks me out such that I feel like it's going to crash the car. Worse, it'll drive smoothly for quite a while and then unexpectedly come down a case of the steering wheel jerks. (2023.27.7 / 11.4.7.3). Gotta say, for local streets basic AP with Autosteer is better and more relaxing, though EAP on highways is also generally pretty good (except for handling some merging traffic scenarios). With those I generally know when I'm going to have to take over (e.g. for any turns at all), and so the division of labor is pretty clear. I don't have to build anxiety as the car approaches a roundabout, an unprotected turn or a light where I need to turn - FSD right on red is a horror show, and left on green arrow can easily go very bad. So, despite the fact that EAP is overpriced, it feels like a smarter buy right now than FSD. For many people, basic AP with AutoSteer will be just fine - and it's included in the base price of the car.
Hi everyone.
I’m considering purchasing FSD. I have a very long highway commute and I was wondering if FSD was similar to standard autopilot when it comes to big rigs. When I’m in standard autopilot and the rig beside me is close to the line of its lane, my car hammers the brake to make distance. Will my car do that in FSD, or will it do something else like move away from the rig by switching lanes?
Mariano
SalisburySam
Active Member
No reason to do that until actually delivered. Get the monthly rental first, see what you like, dislike, can live with, and either stick with the monthly, buy the full package, or disregard entirely. Only you can decide what you need and can live with regarding FSD.
It’s a slightly less gimmicky feature than summon. It’s for showing your friends and instilling some fear into them and to turn on every week to remind yourself why you don’t use it.
KArnold
Active Member
I guess my sadistic streak in me continues to use it all of the time. Not perfect by a long shot but I enjoy interstate miles using FSDb quite a bit.
Yep, EAP is mostly pretty darn good with NOA turned on as long as the Auto Wipers don't go nuts. I turned the FSD trial off again because I refuse to use it on local roads and streets. Too many crazy bad moves and near crashes for my taste. If I have to constantly be ready to stop it from crashing the car, I might as well drive it myself.
KArnold
Active Member
If you already have EAP, it's "only" $99 per month to add FSD. It's like, hey, I'll gladly pay that to have an inexperienced teen driver with three of his friends take the wheel of my car and drive it all over town with me riding up front and hoping we don't all die, what a great idea!
Y'know, it's really like we've been invaded by TeslaQ, the maniacal, "We lie and short anybody for money!" types around here.
I've been one of the many testers, suffering through the 9.x and 10.x branches starting early in 2022. And, yeah, with an average of three to four interventions per mile on city streets, weird behavior on the interstates, and all that, sure. Idiot teen drivers was a good way to think about it, although real teens learn a lot faster than that.
But the current incarnations of 11.4.x are lots better than that. While there's the occasional intersection that the software always gets wrong, or near wrong, it's quite possible to go ten or fifteen miles at a whack without a single intervention: Local roads to an interstate, back off the interstate to local roads, major roads, and so on.
Went to meet the gang at a restaurant mid last week for lunch. Put the location in Nav, backed out of the driveway, and let it rip: Handled the back alley, then a right onto a local, non-lined road; right again onto a six-lane local road with heavy traffic, and navigated onto an on ramp to an eight-lane (4 each direction) interstate. From there to an off-ramp, right turn at a right-on-red at the off-ramp exit, then up a couple of streets, right turn from there onto a local road, left at a fork, over the railroad tracks, then moved to the right lane (correct) on a four-lane highway, since the left lane was turning into only-left-at-the-light; continued on, stopped at the next light; then forward at the light, merged correctly, left at the next light, then little squiggly roads for the next five miles until reaching another major, 4-lane (2 each direction) road; right on red, then up five miles, then correctly navigated the blame parking lot, stopping in front of the eatery.
About the only thing I was actively doing was cranking up the speed limit on the local roads to keep up with traffic. Y'know, setting it to 40 on a 35 mph road, and so on. The rest was the car.
There are some spots where the car could be better. If one is on a nominal single lane that's wide and there's a car in front of one turning left, the car won't go around to the right. Likewise, on a road like that, if the car is supposed to be turning left, it still tends to swing wide right before the turn, blocking cars behind one. It has problems with extra-short on-ramps in heavy traffic.
It's still a little jerky on turns; but, on 11.4.4 it's tons better than the 11.3.x variants which would give one neck snaps.
On interstates: I drive back and forth between New Jersey and Boston. The interventions are rare. Like, once in a hundred miles, if that. And we're talking about it switching lanes to dodge traffic, moving out of the passing lanes, and so forth.
Now, admittedly, I got FSD-b for cheaps back in 2020, so I'm not looking at a $12k bill or whatever it looks like now. But it's.. good these days. And downright useful.
Not quite ready for Ma and Pa Sixpack: One does have to pay attention, not read books or play with one's cell phone. But, on a long drive, it's actually kind of restful: The minutia of staying in lane, staying with traffic, stopping and starting at lights is all done for one; in the meantime, one can spend serious time looking out for other drivers doing crazy things. On a long trip, I arrive at the destination a lot less beat up.
In terms of bang for the buck, I suppose EAP is better, at least for long road trips. But it's not quite as refined as FSD on interstates and, of course, EAP doesn't do turns and such on city streets.
I'm looking forward for Version 12.
Hey, I'm always glad to hear good news about FSD and even automatic wipers. I'm glad FSD has improved, though I shudder to think what it must have been like in the past. However, I'm an owner of a 2023 MYLR after leasing a 2021 Model 3P for two years, and I'm simply telling the story of what happens to me in my MYLR every time I try to use FSD. Same as you folks. Your good experience doesn't obviate my bad one, though it sure does make me wish for yours. Also perhaps unlike some critics I'm actually using FSD during the trial to see whether I want to subscribe. As things stand today, there's not a chance in heck of that happening. EAP with NoA on limited access highways is working pretty well, so I don't feel too bad about buying that.
I don't and won't own any Tesla stock, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
I don't and won't own any Tesla stock, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
Good enough; it was the sheer negativity that set me off, I guess.Hey, I'm always glad to hear good news about FSD and even automatic wipers. I'm glad FSD has improved, though I shudder to think what it must have been like in the past. However, I'm an owner of a 2023 MYLR after leasing a 2021 Model 3P for two years, and I'm simply telling the story of what happens to me in my MYLR every time I try to use FSD. Same as you folks. Your good experience doesn't obviate my bad one, though it sure does make me wish for yours. Also perhaps unlike some critics I'm actually using FSD during the trial to see whether I want to subscribe. As things stand today, there's not a chance in heck of that happening. EAP with NoA on limited access highways is working pretty well, so I don't feel too bad about buying that.
I don't and won't own any Tesla stock, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
Over on the 11.x forums reports on how the cars drive seem all over the map. Some people swear up and down FSD-b is a hazard to life and limb; others rarely have interventions. I'd like to think I'm in the middle of the crowd: There's things I complain about but, by and large, I'm seeing serious improvements over time.
As to why this wide range of opinion, well:
- As I said, there's some intersections where FSD-b does a poor job. If one's commute or just driving around doesn't involve those intersections then, well, one is going to have less complaints. If there's a dozen of those intersections on one's commute then there's going to be a poorer opinion. Throw into this what appears to be a somewhat probabilistic approach to "poor" intersections (might do well 3 out of ten; or 7 out of ten, take your pick) and what also appears to be map data updates (sometimes the big package, but there's some guessing out there that FSD-b might be getting individual loads on each drive for map data. So, once again, variations that may or may scare the heck out of people.
- Then there's the actual drivers. I doubt that any two drivers handle a route the same way; throw in traffic variations and one's personal preferences are likely different than everybody else's. Further, some people are, correctly or not, exceedingly picky about how FSD-b handles particular intersections. This can be due to actual danger; but there exists the stereotype of a back-seat driver who gets driven wild by other drivers who are, say, more laissez-faire about life on the road. This, I would guess, comes under the file of, "Can't stand FSD-b's methods", even if those methods aren't actually dangerous. Sometimes, how a car drives, FSD-b or not, can meet with a driver's objections, and there's a marriage not made in heaven.
- There's also the possibility that manufacturing variations on the cars themselves results in different hardware "gains", so, even with precisely the same software, there might be a sensitivity issue around some parameter or other. (I'm using professional, EE-control-theory language here; nobody ever said that programming up FSD was easy.)
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Wow you have very responsible teenagers ! Imagine obeying the (set) speed limit !!
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In my case, I'd prefer to view my attitude as a clear-eyed, unbiased view. I'm on my second Tesla car. Overall I like this car very much. I loved our Model 3P as well. However, that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed in some pretty serious ways. BTW, my car is currently running 2023.27.7 / 11.4.7.3
So, there's a ton of confirmation bias out there from those rooting for Tesla FSD to be awesome. While I am also rooting for it to be awesome, until it is, I'm not willing to say nice things about it given what Musk has repeatedly promised the feature can do right now, today vs. what it actually does when I use it. On a left turn onto a divided street, instead of going for the other side of the divider where it should go, my car turns directly into stopped oncoming traffic, which would generate a head-on collision. My car jerks the steering wheel violently and unpredictably in certain circumstances which do not warrant it. My car has a hell of a time handling merging traffic coming in from the right, and an equally bad time in most cases when it's merging onto a highway. My car does crazy dangerous things in traffic circles. My car cannot safely turn right on red after stopping - sometimes it tries to California roll through the stop, and sometimes after stopping it cuts a right turn in front of traffic coming from the right, which could generate a nasty collision if I let it do what it wanted to do. Other times at a stop sign with an unprotected turn it creeps forward so far that it's a hazard to oncoming traffic. The list goes on and on. These are real things it actually does while I am behind the wheel, carefully monitoring it's activity and interrupting as necessary.
TBH, I'm also highly irritated by Musk's long history of what feels like straight up lies about what FSD is able to to in the current moment as well as when some particular aspect of it will improve. I know, over time, people here build up tolerance to and tell jokes about his apparently constant exaggerations, prevarications, and ridiculously phony delivery dates, but given he's the CEO of a publicly held company he has a serious responsibility and even a legal obligation to be truthful, honest and transparent about the cars they are shipping, the stuff that's not working but should, to stop marketing features the cars don't have, and to offer refunds to customers who feel they've been ripped off by FSD or even EAP instead of sitting on that money like a dragon on a hoard of jewels. They should still be able to hand-wave about their vision for the future and what they'd like to acomplish, I'm certainly not opposed to that, but I don't like to buy vaporware and puffery. For example, when I bought my car with EAP, the text around that feature promised several features they didn't tell me would be missing until after I signed the deal and they had my money. There was no, "Hey, sorry, you should know these few particular features we promised won't be part of the package, do you still want EAP?" I'm sure their legal beagles have written language full of twisty passages into the contracts in an effort to protect them from accountability for such misreprepesentations, but it still stings and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's also a terrible first customer experience. So Instead of clarity from this publicly held corporation where lots and lots of people have money invested in that stock and should be told honestly what's going on, along with mere car buyers like me who feel we've probably been misled, we get this fog - especially during reporting periods when the CEO gets on the line and spins yet another yarn. So, yeah, color me salty, but don't think I'm against FSD, because I'd like nothing better than to have a nearly autonomous car in my garage,and for it to be my Tesla MYLR, which I really do like an awful lot. As they say on TV, "I'm just being honest."
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
so why do you listen to him? Seriously.
I've posted this before, but everyone knows that his predictions and time estimates are never accurate. If you're kind you call them 'aspirational.' others say delusional, wildly overoptimistic, unrealistic, etc. Regardless, it's clear that any time estimate is off on average by an order of magnitude and his other predictions are not relevant.
When I see a "Version x.x.x is
. Pushing wide in 2 weeks" post by Elon I interpret it as "employees might get it in 1-2 months and we'll see from there." Haven't been disappointed yet.Or, just unfollow him, and don't go searching for his comments. Then, when an update comes out, it's a pleasant surprise - like finding a $20 bill in your pants pocket you didn't know was there.so why do you listen to him? Seriously.
I've posted this before, but everyone knows that his predictions and time estimates are never accurate. If you're kind you call them 'aspirational.' others say delusional, wildly overoptimistic, unrealistic, etc. Regardless, it's clear that any time estimate is off on average by an order of magnitude and his other predictions are not relevant.
When I see a "Version x.x.x is
I get it, but you're kind of missing the point: CEO of publicly traded company. Not just some rich idiot saying irrelevant things I happily ignore when they're about any other subject. There should really be some accountability. Among other things, it's potentially misleading future customers and maybe also stock price manipulation. 
In an ideal world, everyone would be honest. Unfortunately, that's not how things are. Let me introduce you to the US Congress and Executive Branch - the people in charge of everything in the country. We don't hold any of them accountable for misleading statements, and they get to manipulate the stock market all they want (by buying/selling massive stock portfolios based on inside knowledge). We're all so desensitized to it, we just shrug our shoulders when many of them speak. But a CEO - get a rope.I get it, but you're kind of missing the point: CEO of publicly traded company. Not just some rich idiot saying irrelevant things I happily ignore when they're about any other subject. There should really be some accountability. Among other things, it's potentially misleading future customers and maybe also stock price manipulation.
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