FSD Owners - Do any of you prefer leaving it off?

[SSonnentag]

Over on the 11.x forums reports on how the cars drive seem all over the map. Some people swear up and down FSD-b is a hazard to life and limb; others rarely have interventions. I'd like to think I'm in the middle of the crowd: There's things I complain about but, by and large, I'm seeing serious improvements over time.

Interesting points you made. I just bought a 2023 MYP and sold my 2017 S 100D. Both have FSD Beta. Where the S was constantly having false braking and swerving for highway exit lanes, the Y is a dream. I have not had any phantom braking or diving for exit lanes that don't exist in nearly 1000 miles so far, only a couple of slight slow downs that were gently and not of the slam-the-brakes variety I was getting routinely with the S.

So there most definitely is a wide range of successes and failures depending on the particular vehicle.

 

[EVNow]

So, there's a ton of confirmation bias out there from those rooting for Tesla FSD to be awesome.

TBH, I'm also highly irritated by Musk's long history of what feels like straight up lies about what FSD is able to to in the current moment as well as when some particular aspect of it will improve.

Are you sure your "unbiased" FSD opinion is actually not just a confirmation bias?

I think by any measure
- FSD is the best out there in any customer car at present (others don't even have this feature !)
- FSD today is better than when we started out

If you had initially believed Musk's claims I can understand why you think he "lied". I did my home work and never believed FSD was possible in any short time frame. I just chalk it up to bad extrapolation and the same attitude that allowed him to take on problems with low chance of success like EVs or rockets. I think it is disingenuous to think Elon is great for the risk he took with EVs and rockets but he should have been realistic with FSD ! Having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Dracaris]

Good points in the last paragraph, thanks. Also, again, I paid for EAP hoping and thinking based on Tesla marketing and CEO statements that it would be what they said it was. EAP is fairly close, actually, and it's largely usable aside from running dry wipers in the sun and refusing to run wipers at all in the rain. Sure, there are plenty of irrational Tesla haters out there, but I'm not one of them, having just bought my second Tesla. This is my first time trying EAP / FSD, however. Autopilot was so good, I figured the same as you suggest: Tesla haters were just pooping on a great product. Not so much. I drove with FSD for several days thinking I might even upgrade via subscription once the trial ran out, but on local streets and roads it is a bonafide menace to society. Honestly, if FSD is better today than when they started selling it, I shudder to think how bad it was then.

I will admit that at this point I'm no fan of Musk. He's trying to run too many companies and at this point he's demostrably doing that badly at all them. The Tesla board should kick him out as CEO so they can get FSD on track, stop ripping out important features that make the cars work as advertised, and so on. While he's done some very good things since joining Tesla as a money man, lately he's done a lot of truly stupid things and his current performance evaluation by the board should reflect that.

 

[EVNow]

I drove with FSD for several days thinking I might even upgrade via subscription once the trial ran out, but on local streets and roads it is a bonafide menace to society. Honestly, if FSD is better today than when they started selling it, I shudder to think how bad it was then.

How FSD performs depends on
- your roads, map, traffic
- where you are on the learning curve

Yes, it is not really a consumer friendly product at this point. It needs to be constantly monitored and you need to understand its limitations, anticipate where you might need to disengage etc. If you don't - you can be a menace to society !

 

[UserAnon99]

Interesting points you made. I just bought a 2023 MYP and sold my 2017 S 100D. Both have FSD Beta. Where the S was constantly having false braking and swerving for highway exit lanes, the Y is a dream. I have not had any phantom braking or diving for exit lanes that don't exist in nearly 1000 miles so far, only a couple of slight slow downs that were gently and not of the slam-the-brakes variety I was getting routinely with the S.

So there most definitely is a wide range of successes and failures depending on the particular vehicle.

This seems to confirm what I've always highly suspected which is hardware makes a dramatic difference. You are on HW4 on the 2023 and its vastly higher quality/compute power. This is possibly the most annoying part in that HW3 was sold as "good enough" but the reality is, it kinda isn't. HW4 seems to be getting closer to what was promised long ago.

 

[drtimhill]

I own FSD. My opinion is FSD drives like an erratic teenager first time driver. Sometimes it's so slow it annoys you. Other times it leaves so little distance it scares you. It's jerky and not smooth. It automatically does lane changes on its own which I'd rather leave off and initiate myself; but there is no setting for that. The FSD minimize lane changes toggle setting resets every drive.

Also the attention reminders are much more intrusive with FSD, not sure if me being tall or sometimes wearing glasses impacts that as I believe FSD uses more interior camera. My favorite part of FSD was summons and that doesn't work any more with our non USS cars. Yes each that was actually an enhanced autopilot feature and not FSD.

I usually keep FSD off and prefer enhanced autopilot.

If you own FSD do you ever prefer leaving it off?

I’m curious .. given that FSD is beta, what did you expect it to be like?

And I keep it on .. it’s improved dramatically in the last 2 years.

 

[TheLocNar]

2018 M3P here delivered in September of that year. And I paid for FSD then. I haven’t even activated it in 3 years.

 

[SalisburySam]

2018 M3P here delivered in September of that year. And I paid for FSD then. I haven’t even activated it in 3 years.

2018 M3 RWD, July 2018 delivery, EAP/FSD, no FSDb. Only infrequently use FSD…much more stressful than driving myself due to having to expect the worst actions at all times. Waste of $ for me, regret to this day.

 

[lzolman]

My wife drives the '18 M3, FSD purchased. She has not yet installed FSDb, and only uses AP features very rarely on the interstates.

With my '21 MSLR, for the past year+ I've tried each new FSDb update once or twice, just long enough each time to be able to tell I still can't trust it off the highway with any traffic directly behind me. I'd love for V12 to be different.

 

[sandman1330]

I've finally given up and just gone back to autosteer. For me it was the unpredictable lane changes - even with "minimal lane changes" checked, it would try to change into left turn lanes when it needs to go straight, or just generally ping-pong, telling me it was "following route." Very disruptive to traffic around and makes you look like an a**-hole to other drivers!

I much prefer simple autosteer with commanded auto lane changes. The only downside is the max +10km/h limit on some roads, as the car very frequently misses speed zone changes.

I'll try again if a major update, or V12, comes out. But my hopes are dashed at this point.

 

[eli_]

The FSD beta lane change decisions have too much latency so that by the time it starts to change lanes, it's already being overtaken and has to awkwardly cancel the lane change. This can repeat over and over in traffic. Mix in that stupid "avoiding the rightmost lane" behavior that tries to enter the passing lane and it gets real annoying. FSD beta on the highway is like a game of trying to catch when its about to change lanes so I can quickly tap the signal stalk and cancel it before it attempts something dumb/embarrassing.

I'm not ready to go back to Autosteer because that also has a different set of annoying behaviors, like the slowdowns for merging lanes that aren't even really merging. I will only go forward or not use it at all.

 

[dregdoba]

The FSD beta lane change decisions have too much latency so that by the time it starts to change lanes, it's already being overtaken and has to awkwardly cancel the lane change. This can repeat over and over in traffic. Mix in that stupid "avoiding the rightmost lane" behavior that tries to enter the passing lane and it gets real annoying. FSD beta on the highway is like a game of trying to catch when its about to change lanes so I can quickly tap the signal stalk and cancel it before it attempts something dumb/embarrassing.

Yeah's its sluggish for sure and downright annoying a lot of the time. I totally agree with your take here. I opt to pay $200/month when I have a road trip planned and cancel immediately afterwards. Tesla totally does over promise and underdeliver unfortunately.

 

[Tronguy]

Yeah's its sluggish for sure and downright annoying a lot of the time. I totally agree with your take here. I opt to pay $200/month when I have a road trip planned and cancel immediately afterwards. Tesla totally does over promise and underdeliver unfortunately.

Funny. Yesterday, drove from Central Jersey to Lincroft and back fo a home show, about 25 miles both ways. Mostly controlled access roads at 65+ mph. And all with FSD-b.. and no interventions.

Car swapped lanes as needed, passed cars, got out of passing lanes to let other cars go by, sometimes slowing down a bit to do so, got into exit lanes with plenty of time, navigated local roads with single and multiple lanes with combinations of stop signs and lights, and, got me there sans problems.

Only intervened at the end when the community college’s 10 mph on-campus speed limit kicked in, which nobody else was respecting, either.

On the way back things went well, except for the car slowing down to 5 mph for a toll booth and not picking up speed for a couple hundred yards after.

But lane changes? They were absolutely fine.

It’s not just that trip, either. I’ve been bombing back and forth to Boston this year and doing long stretches on FSD-b on the numerous interstates in between. It does lane changes just fine.

About the only times the car “ducks back” as you describe is when some speeder at 10-20mph above the limit, doing the slalom-past-the-slower-cars dance makes a sudden appearance as the car’s about to make its lane change. Now, a human might challenge the idiot by getting into the lane and making the idiot brake or swerve.. the Tesla seems mainly to just get out of their way.

FSD-b 11.4.9; 2023.44.30.8.

 

[sleepydoc]

The FSD beta lane change decisions have too much latency so that by the time it starts to change lanes, it's already being overtaken and has to awkwardly cancel the lane change. This can repeat over and over in traffic. Mix in that stupid "avoiding the rightmost lane" behavior that tries to enter the passing lane and it gets real annoying. FSD beta on the highway is like a game of trying to catch when its about to change lanes so I can quickly tap the signal stalk and cancel it before it attempts something dumb/embarrassing.

I'm not ready to go back to Autosteer because that also has a different set of annoying behaviors, like the slowdowns for merging lanes that aren't even really merging. I will only go forward or not use it at all.

I've noticed this to be worse lately; I'll often take over for lane changes now where I didn't need to do so as often with previous versions.

 

[dregdoba]

I've noticed this to be worse lately; I'll often take over for lane changes now where I didn't need to do so as often with previous versions.

What version of FSDb are you on?

 

[sleepydoc]

What version of FSDb are you on?

11.4.9

 

[See Red]

I use FSD every time I drive. I have to intervene at certain points where I know it is having problems I. e. A 45 MPH sign on a frontage road is close to the 65 MPH freeway. FSD slams on the brake and startles me and the cars behind me. I also have to take over when it gets into a left turn lane at fifty mph. I am excited to hear that version twelve is being released this week. First release is to HW4 which I have and to states other than California and Texas. Does anyone know WHY?

 

[pilotSteve]

I leave it off when others are riding with me. It’s still a science experiment that can blow up easily, sort of like shaking a beaker full of Nitro!

 

[sleepydoc]

I leave it off when others are riding with me. It’s still a science experiment that can blow up easily, sort of like shaking a beaker full of Nitro!

I use it with passengers I also know where it has issues and will preemptively take over.

 

[lzolman]

These days, more often than not, if I've engaged FSD it's to give a demo to a passenger who's never seen it.
Last time I did that, last week, I was on the highway, and it failed to navigate the simple offramp about 2 miles later. Really persuasive demo there.