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Doing the math for Fuel costs for Electric VS Gas

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by WillK, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. WillK

    WillK Member

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    Hi,

    I was working on figuring out fuel costs savings. Thought I would share. Appreciate any feed back.

    Thanks,

    Will
     

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  2. busaman

    busaman Member

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    well here in the UK there is a tremendous saving gas costs us $6.45 a gallon and electric $.13kwh
     
  3. docherf

    docherf Member

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    It basically looks right to me. Here's some nit-picking if that's what your looking for.

    Might want to add 5-10% to the electric for efficiency loss through charger.

    Not sure about the gas mpg, but I don't think most people get 3.4 mi/kwh in the real world with the model s - you'd need a light foot. I'd personally use 2.9.

    Probably another kwh /day in vampire losses.

    Good luck!
     
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  4. tnt1971

    tnt1971 Member

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    I have run the numbers for here in NYC. We pay nearly 26 cents a kWh and fuel is around $2.60 a gallon. My last car was a Prius. Compared to that the S is more expensive per mile. Compared to a comparable luxury car, it is pretty close with a slightly cheaper price for the Tesla.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Electric700

    Electric700 Active Member

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    You could go with a solar/wind system and zero the cost to run your Tesla!
     
  6. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    #6 scottm, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    If you're trying to make a point, compare more comparable cars .... a TDI versus a Tesla?
    Pick a sedan of similar size/power/weight/category... not an "average" car or an economy car.
    A similar class car has worse MPG, and makes a stronger point for electric.

    If you own a TDI, well, then... you can see you're still ahead.
    For your 13 cents / kW... is that the all-in delivered price of electricity on your bill?
    Often the energy sellers will quote a " 7 cents kW" price in their advertising... but then you see the "delivery charges" and other fees on the bill when it arrives... can double the per-kW price of the energy itself. I don't know why energy utilities can get away with that kind of crap.

    I did the maths for myself once, roughly and came up with a ratio that I use when people ask...

    "It costs about a quarter to a third of the price of gas to drive on electricity..."

    Your numbers are in line with that.
    Then I follow-up and say immediately this:

    "but that's not enough of a difference to justify the cost of buying this Tesla. It won't payback for the life of the car on fuel alone."

    This leads into other EV discussion.... "I'm happy knowing that I produce zero carbon while driving the car"... (notice words carefully chosen here - to see if they then regurgitate the argument of it taking carbon to produce the electricity)

    .. and "I enjoy not paying road tax that is added into the price of gas at the pump".
     
  7. docherf

    docherf Member

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    Makes it easier for me - electric is only 10 cents, I drive 25k miles/yr and my last car was only getting 14 mpg.

    Do they still sell TDI in US? Funny how that car went from being PC to similar to driving a huge SUV. I always admired its range.
     
  8. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    I dont pay for charging. There are a number of free Chademo charging stations I use for certain journeys and at home, I use a socket in the garage for which the management pays ( i have permission ). The 'community' pays for the electricity bill though....

    If i were paying, then it would be about 10 - 15 cents per kwh depending on the time of day.
     
  9. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    my rule of thumb is that charging costs about 1/4 what the equivalent fuel would cost. based on .11 per khw
     
  10. animorph

    animorph Member

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    I think to be really fair you need to consider the cost of the battery for the EV. They don't last forever. Hopefully replacement batteries will be less expensive in the future.
     
  11. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    have you heard of anyone buying a replacement battery for their tesla?
     
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  12. suraj1194

    suraj1194 Member

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    There are multiple Teslas with north of 200K miles on the odometer now. According to this article on Electrek, degradation is approx 5% at 50K miles, 8% at 100K miles and about 15% at 200K miles:
    Tesla Model S battery pack data shows very little capacity loss over high mileage

    200K miles is 10 years of driving at 20K miles a year, and even more at 15K miles/year. Even that far our, it'll still charge to over 80% of original capacity. Unlike the more significant Prius/Leaf battery degradation records, Tesla battery management has from current user base indications, been significantly more long lasting. A decade+ out, battery costs will have fallen significantly, and in any case, most of the owners will have swapped for newer cars, considering average car ownership duration in the US.
     
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  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    #13 SageBrush, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    PV can make EV fueling costs dirt cheap, particularly if the owner can help with the install.
    I am going to hire an electrician for the hook-up, but I can certainly build a frame and rent a trencher ...
     
  14. WillK

    WillK Member

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    Thanks for the feed back. I forgot to document where I got the 3.4, wish I had saved the link.
    Is the 5-10% loss through the charger just the way it goes for electricity or is that something Tesla can improve.
    Will
     
  15. WillK

    WillK Member

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    Thanks for the feed back. I was doing the math on the cars that are driven in my family. I am turning in my dirty TDI soon. I used to love
    Good info. The cars shown are cars my family drives so I was interested in doing a comparison. The Dirty TDI goes back to VW soon. I really loved that car until I found out it was a lie. Its been awhile since I liked driving. Really enjoying the Tesla.
     
  16. WillK

    WillK Member

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    I am not even sure if the sell Diesel in the states any more. Mine is a 2010 TDI Wagon. I was going to drive it for a few more years and then get a model 3 but I decided to sell it back to VW and move to Tesla. It was a very good car with great range and only needed service once a year.
     
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  17. BestRadar

    BestRadar Member

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    When you factor in the higher cost of the Tesla over the TDI you are really loosing money and not saving in your yearly expenses.
     
  18. docherf

    docherf Member

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    there is always some loss converting between ac & dc. As I understand it, newer teslas are a little more efficient. Also, the efficiency is better at higher power (there is more % loss charging on 110 vs 240, for example).
     
  19. docherf

    docherf Member

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    This is probably true for large majority of people buying a new car - it rarely makes financial sense. But it's worth it!:)
     
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  20. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    Might be worth adding a "Supercharge percentage", which would reduce charging cost a bit.

    The figure I use, when telling friends, is monthly saving per 10,000 miles driven per annum. In the UK, with our high fuel tax and assuming a decent Off Peak electricity price, I figure it is about 100 GBP (about 120 US$) per 10,000 miles p.a. Adding 100 GBP to the monthly finance buys quite a lot more car :) ... more so for anyone doing even higher annual mileage of course.
     
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