Please tell me what is the definition of "efficiency" in the chart. Also, is this from something like a third party monitoring tool (which i do not have) or what?
Thanks.
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Don’t order SR or MR if your winter is cold.
- Thread starter maroon555
- Start date
Please tell me what is the definition of "efficiency" in the chart. Also, is this from something like a third party monitoring tool (which i do not have) or what?
Thanks.
Bingo! Nobody should use the battery SOC indicator as a range indicator! Unless they live someplace like Hawaii where the weather is always temperate and the average Wh/mi happens to be about what the EPA average is based upon. Otherwise they will just go nuts trying to reconcile the actual miles driven with the change in the battery SOC as shown in miles.
This is exactly why I use % for state of charge, and as you say, I use the Energy app to see my energy usage rate and to forecast range if I need to. People get so embrangled in how many miles they "lost" when they are driving in conditions that consume energy at a higher rate than the EPA average -- could be speed, cold, elevation change, payload weight, any number of factors that affect the energy usage rate. I wonder if folks also get concerned in nice weather when they "gain" miles because their energy usage is lower than the EPA rating.
Use the Energy app, keep an eye of Wh/mi, set the battery indicator for % instead of distance, and follow the tips about winter driving. Yes, you may use more energy/mile in winter and you may have to charge more or more often or longer. And yes, if your daily needs are close to the stated range of a car, or the practical range in winter, then you may want to buy one with a larger battery. But blanket statements about losing XX% in winter and not helpful.
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thefortunes
Active Member
Efficiency = rated Wh/mi as a percentage of actual Wh/mi.
This (and my other S data) is from TeslaFi. Any Roadster data I post is from spreadsheets.
thefortunes
Active Member
If you are losing this type of range ON LONG DRIVES WHEN RANGE MATTERS then I can't help you. You are either NOT comparing apples to apples (speed, distance, wind, etc...) or are cherry picking short drives.
Yes, I believe that the DATA that I have repeatedly posted (I have another 80k miles of DATA for the Roadster that somewhat mirrors these numbers) are "remotely" true.
In fact, they ARE true - DATA is like that. FUD is not.
The energy chart is well and good but many of us just received that a few weeks ago. Not to mention that the average owner isn't going to automatically know that the range listed on the main screen will be so far off. If it can catch me by surprise I know a majority of others will be in the same boat.
Hi I am new to this forum and a new EV owner . I have a 2018 Volt so I am at a disadvantage when it comes to ev miles in summer our mileage shows about 85 km at present it is about 68 km . We live in southern Ontario all out # s are in KM and litres and centigrade temp . we do mostly short driving charge entirely at home on a level 2 220 v charger we cannot fast charge and there are very few charging stations in our area . we live in the country and a lot of our trips are probably 50 km average . I think the car is all that I expected it to be . I would like to get at least 200 km on a charge then go to gas backup so I don't have to worry about having no miles
In 10'000 km have used just over 2 tanks of gas our gas is around 5$ a gallon IMP gal and CDN money on gas I guess cost about 12.5 cents a mile on electric I think it is probably around 5 cents a mile . hard to figure that as we live on a farm and use 1 meter and charge both during the day and also at night on cheaper hydro By what I am seeing so far our hydro has probably gone up around 75 $ a month and we drive about 3500 km a month using a little gas but mainly EV
I like the car it is all I expected would like more ev range Am looking at solar to charge it and heat the house partially
We are losing our General motors plant in Oshawa and they are quitting the volt . I guess it is too expensive to build and they are going entirely EV on the Bolt . Because we have few charge stations and sometimes drive several hundred km in a day this volt is ok
I was wondering what kind of costs for hydro every one is looking at I don't see too much on that topic we are just starting into cold weather so I am expecting our gas motor to cut in more often with less Ev range . Because we have mostly short drives we will still be on EV mode mostly but out cost KM is going to increase . Does anyone have any experience with solar . I have an older 2006 prius hybrid that I replaced a bad cell after 360 000 km and am hoping to drive it as a second winter vechicle
Also have a 2014 ford Focus that I wish I had never seen Had transmission problems sine day one now no warrantee and stuck with a lemon
In 10'000 km have used just over 2 tanks of gas our gas is around 5$ a gallon IMP gal and CDN money on gas I guess cost about 12.5 cents a mile on electric I think it is probably around 5 cents a mile . hard to figure that as we live on a farm and use 1 meter and charge both during the day and also at night on cheaper hydro By what I am seeing so far our hydro has probably gone up around 75 $ a month and we drive about 3500 km a month using a little gas but mainly EV
I like the car it is all I expected would like more ev range Am looking at solar to charge it and heat the house partially
We are losing our General motors plant in Oshawa and they are quitting the volt . I guess it is too expensive to build and they are going entirely EV on the Bolt . Because we have few charge stations and sometimes drive several hundred km in a day this volt is ok
I was wondering what kind of costs for hydro every one is looking at I don't see too much on that topic we are just starting into cold weather so I am expecting our gas motor to cut in more often with less Ev range . Because we have mostly short drives we will still be on EV mode mostly but out cost KM is going to increase . Does anyone have any experience with solar . I have an older 2006 prius hybrid that I replaced a bad cell after 360 000 km and am hoping to drive it as a second winter vechicle
Also have a 2014 ford Focus that I wish I had never seen Had transmission problems sine day one now no warrantee and stuck with a lemon
Look like M3 LR should fit the bill pretty nice - even with 30% loss of range in the winter you are still getting 200 miles... Oops.. You said kilometers... Well in that case just read rate range in miles and if it is in kilometers for winter driving (that will give you even more than 30% buffer
) - that would mean that even SR will fit your bill and you have plenty of superchargers around Toronto. I've visited Aurora last week and used one in Markham once as our hosts didn't have readily accessible 220v plug.
TMarque
Member
Just being honest and totally conservative, and I have a P3D, but if you are starting w 220 miles of range, you have to figure on an average day, you’re not going to charge your car to 100%, so let’s say 90:
Which will put your range at 198, but you’re not going to drive it down to 0%, the lowest I’ve ever taken my battery to is 50 miles remaining (at the time I had it set in miles and it was when I first took delivery), but let’s say you’re brave enough to drive it down to 10%:
That will put you’re actual range at 178.2 miles. Then let’s factor in the cold; these “estimation charts” or whatever they are aren’t very useful as they aren’t very specific, but I can tell you that you will lose range the colder the weather is, that’s sometbing everyone should be able to agree on. For the purposes of this argument, I’m going with a conservative 15% average loss in the winter. Which I’m well aware can’t be relied on, but I think many would agree that you’re likely to lose 15% in the winter on some occassigns.
That will give you 151.47 of real world comfortably drivable range. Then let’s figure the overall expected degradation. This is very subjective as well, and there is no agreed upon amount, but most say you will lose up to 5%, I think it’s reasonable to assume so, if you plan on keeping the car at least 5 years.
Which brings up to 143.89 of actual comfortably drivable range. I’m being completely conservative but also realistic with these scenarios based on my own experience with the Model 3. If your typical driving does not exceed close to 144 miles per day, I think the SR will be an excellent car for you. If this cuts it close, within 20 miles (15%) of your regular daily driving, I would prob recommend you step up to the MR to minimize your anxiety.
I think you’re be more than satisfied with the car as a daily driver if you fit into these ranges without drastically changing your existing driving habits. Of course there’s a few things you’ll have to adjust, as w any new technology.
Which will put your range at 198, but you’re not going to drive it down to 0%, the lowest I’ve ever taken my battery to is 50 miles remaining (at the time I had it set in miles and it was when I first took delivery), but let’s say you’re brave enough to drive it down to 10%:
That will put you’re actual range at 178.2 miles. Then let’s factor in the cold; these “estimation charts” or whatever they are aren’t very useful as they aren’t very specific, but I can tell you that you will lose range the colder the weather is, that’s sometbing everyone should be able to agree on. For the purposes of this argument, I’m going with a conservative 15% average loss in the winter. Which I’m well aware can’t be relied on, but I think many would agree that you’re likely to lose 15% in the winter on some occassigns.
That will give you 151.47 of real world comfortably drivable range. Then let’s figure the overall expected degradation. This is very subjective as well, and there is no agreed upon amount, but most say you will lose up to 5%, I think it’s reasonable to assume so, if you plan on keeping the car at least 5 years.
Which brings up to 143.89 of actual comfortably drivable range. I’m being completely conservative but also realistic with these scenarios based on my own experience with the Model 3. If your typical driving does not exceed close to 144 miles per day, I think the SR will be an excellent car for you. If this cuts it close, within 20 miles (15%) of your regular daily driving, I would prob recommend you step up to the MR to minimize your anxiety.
I think you’re be more than satisfied with the car as a daily driver if you fit into these ranges without drastically changing your existing driving habits. Of course there’s a few things you’ll have to adjust, as w any new technology.
Hank101
Go Tigers!
Thanks for the very useful breakdown, much more applicable than the occasionally used "best case" scenario.
heater takes a big hit on the battery from what I have noticed, especially when defrosting to warm up the car from home
This post is geared towards CO people.
We live in Eagle, in the mountains of CO. Vail is 35 minutes East, we have winter.
We have Model 3 with the red brakes.
I blast the heater when driving.
From Lone Tree supercharger to home (Denver to Eagle) is 145.5 miles. The last trip used 187 rates miles. Roads were dry - low 40's leaving Denver, mid 20's from there to home. It's an elevation gain of 1800 feet. 2 mountain passes to go over.
On a drip from Eagle to Denver it was 133.5 miles. Vail Pass was snow packed. West side of the tunnel approach was snowing. The trip was 177 rated miles. Most of trip was high 20's.
On trips to Denver I leave the house @ 90% charge. 135ish miles. That leaves me enough to do what I have to do in Denver. Then I charge at Lone Tree and head home.
From Lone Tree the next supercharger is Silverthorne, about 80 miles. If traffic is light and the roads are dry, I'll charge to 70% in Lone Tree. I stop at Silverthorne, charge to 50%. That leaves me with at least 25% when I pull into the garage. If it's snowy and I think there's going to be traffic, I'll charge to 80% in Silverthorne.
Snow tires make a difference in range. Far as I can tell, at least 6%. Next year I'll be looking for 19's. Hopefully Tesla will make a summer and winter 19" wheel set for the red brakes 3.
I warm up the battery before I leave the house.
The only time I've experienced anywhere close to range anxiety was coming back from Denver Friday after Thanksgiving. Traffic was jammed, it was cold. As we were sitting in traffic in the cold and snow I was worried we left Denver with not enough charge. But when we charged in Silverthorne we still had 95 miles of rated range.
We love the car. I'd buy it again. Would love more range, I'm sure it's on the way. I'll trade the car in at the next big battery bump, which seems like is coming in the next 2 years if not sooner.
Seems like people spend a lot of time typing about stuff that hasn't happened.
We live in Eagle, in the mountains of CO. Vail is 35 minutes East, we have winter.
We have Model 3 with the red brakes.
I blast the heater when driving.
From Lone Tree supercharger to home (Denver to Eagle) is 145.5 miles. The last trip used 187 rates miles. Roads were dry - low 40's leaving Denver, mid 20's from there to home. It's an elevation gain of 1800 feet. 2 mountain passes to go over.
On a drip from Eagle to Denver it was 133.5 miles. Vail Pass was snow packed. West side of the tunnel approach was snowing. The trip was 177 rated miles. Most of trip was high 20's.
On trips to Denver I leave the house @ 90% charge. 135ish miles. That leaves me enough to do what I have to do in Denver. Then I charge at Lone Tree and head home.
From Lone Tree the next supercharger is Silverthorne, about 80 miles. If traffic is light and the roads are dry, I'll charge to 70% in Lone Tree. I stop at Silverthorne, charge to 50%. That leaves me with at least 25% when I pull into the garage. If it's snowy and I think there's going to be traffic, I'll charge to 80% in Silverthorne.
Snow tires make a difference in range. Far as I can tell, at least 6%. Next year I'll be looking for 19's. Hopefully Tesla will make a summer and winter 19" wheel set for the red brakes 3.
I warm up the battery before I leave the house.
The only time I've experienced anywhere close to range anxiety was coming back from Denver Friday after Thanksgiving. Traffic was jammed, it was cold. As we were sitting in traffic in the cold and snow I was worried we left Denver with not enough charge. But when we charged in Silverthorne we still had 95 miles of rated range.
We love the car. I'd buy it again. Would love more range, I'm sure it's on the way. I'll trade the car in at the next big battery bump, which seems like is coming in the next 2 years if not sooner.
Seems like people spend a lot of time typing about stuff that hasn't happened.
FWIW. Because there was quite a bit of confusion on the Tesla Model 3 Forum about preconditioning the battery, etc., I wrote Tesla Support and got the following reply:
We do have information about the Model 3.
Pre Heating
Take Care,
Tony
We do have information about the Model 3.
Pre Heating
- Before leaving the vehicle:
- Set temperature to HI and AUTO
- Aim vent at the window:
- : full left for driver / fullright for passenger
- : 25% upwards from bottom
- : full left for driver / fullright for passenger
- Set temperature to HI and AUTO
- Run for at least 30 minutes prior to entry
Regards,
Steph R| Tesla Support
Take Care,
Tony
60% range loss is greatly exaggerated.
I do not plan to turn HVAC off, use gloves, seat heater only, drive 65 mph - that is not why I bought an expensive car. So I drive reasonably (72-75 mph), and heat it reasonably (72-73F) - just enough that I am comfortable in a T-shirt. With these settings, the worst I have seen with the RWD LR last year was 387 Wh/mi (85 mile trip, 23F with strong winds), and with the P3D- this year 410Wh/mi (180 mile trip, 25F, strong side winds) - I actually supercharged on the last one to avoid range anxiety going home... So for me, range loss in winter got as high as 38% on the RWD and 40% on the performance AWD.
I had multiple other drives with better consumption at lower temperatures, but with no wind. I suspect that in a blizzard I could hit 60% range loss, but that would be an extreme case scenario - and definitely not the kind of weather anyone should drive in unless emergency situation.
So know your car and enjoy it. The energy app is spot on after recalibrating for weather conditions in about 10-15 miles. I never got surprised in the 3 Teslas we owned.
I do not have enough data for the model 3, but here is my graph for the P85D for 2 winters. I suspect model 3 winter loss will follow a similar pattern
I do not plan to turn HVAC off, use gloves, seat heater only, drive 65 mph - that is not why I bought an expensive car. So I drive reasonably (72-75 mph), and heat it reasonably (72-73F) - just enough that I am comfortable in a T-shirt. With these settings, the worst I have seen with the RWD LR last year was 387 Wh/mi (85 mile trip, 23F with strong winds), and with the P3D- this year 410Wh/mi (180 mile trip, 25F, strong side winds) - I actually supercharged on the last one to avoid range anxiety going home... So for me, range loss in winter got as high as 38% on the RWD and 40% on the performance AWD.
I had multiple other drives with better consumption at lower temperatures, but with no wind. I suspect that in a blizzard I could hit 60% range loss, but that would be an extreme case scenario - and definitely not the kind of weather anyone should drive in unless emergency situation.
So know your car and enjoy it. The energy app is spot on after recalibrating for weather conditions in about 10-15 miles. I never got surprised in the 3 Teslas we owned.
I do not have enough data for the model 3, but here is my graph for the P85D for 2 winters. I suspect model 3 winter loss will follow a similar pattern
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Excellent info! I assume that is all for longer trips, or averages over several trips? The consumption would be higher for short local trips, so I am wondering how that gets figured into the data.
M3, red brakes.
I drove home (Eagle) last night from Denver. I was experiencing 50% loss all the way from Denver (elevation 5280) to Silverthorne (elevation 9035).
Temps leaving Denver were in the 20's. By the time I got to Silverthorne temp was 6 (F). It was windy, the roads were dry.
Silverthorne to Eagle got better.
Going over Vail Pass, it was 0 to -6. Windy. Pulled into my garage it was -2. I used 84 rated miles, 63.5 actual miles.
I drove home (Eagle) last night from Denver. I was experiencing 50% loss all the way from Denver (elevation 5280) to Silverthorne (elevation 9035).
Temps leaving Denver were in the 20's. By the time I got to Silverthorne temp was 6 (F). It was windy, the roads were dry.
Silverthorne to Eagle got better.
Going over Vail Pass, it was 0 to -6. Windy. Pulled into my garage it was -2. I used 84 rated miles, 63.5 actual miles.
I use the model 3 with kids and wife normal heating 19 C cabin. 30km round trip in Toronto gives me projected ranges from 240km to 300km in current weather lots of traffic. Definitely recommend long range for cold climate city trips.
To put things in perspective. my Lexus RX is rated 12.8l per 100 city and I do 17L and a Nissan Altima I drove for 2 weeks was rated 8.7 city and I was doing 12.5
To put things in perspective. my Lexus RX is rated 12.8l per 100 city and I do 17L and a Nissan Altima I drove for 2 weeks was rated 8.7 city and I was doing 12.5
So let's say I'm worst case . 250km a charge. Using the 20 /80 charge rule I'm left with 150km.
Same thing occurred with my plugin hybrid Honda Clarity. Went from 85km range in Summer to 60km and it wasn't even the coldest months. City driving is hell on ICE cars and in also in winter on electric cars. So anyone in a city especially up north should choose range over awd or autopilot. Heck power doesn't even matter cause either the battery isnt warmed or you just can't get enough grip in the cold.
Same thing occurred with my plugin hybrid Honda Clarity. Went from 85km range in Summer to 60km and it wasn't even the coldest months. City driving is hell on ICE cars and in also in winter on electric cars. So anyone in a city especially up north should choose range over awd or autopilot. Heck power doesn't even matter cause either the battery isnt warmed or you just can't get enough grip in the cold.
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