Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[SO16]

You aren't making any sense.

In your example I actually have a phone to use the entire time.

If the price drops a year later, that's irrelevant.

FSD on the other hand has not been delivered

It's effectively PREORDER

So yes, if the price dropped before they ever actually delivered the product, I'd absolutely expect to get some of my pre-payment back. As should anybody. As does anybody with literally any other product from any other company.




As noted elsewhere that would require a flux capacity, and the Model 3 battery can't output the 1.21 GW needed.

Now, if I could refuse delivery of my preorder of FSD that still has not been delivered and rebuy at the new lower price, like you can for every other preorder in the world, that'd be great.

Tesla doesn't seem willing to let anyone to that though.

Does the contract you signed, say anything about being entitled to price reductions?

 

[SO16]

In all seriousness please point me to these cheaper iPhones. I really do need an upgrade.

And FYI, my last vehicle was a Subaru that I paid $25k for brand new. Sold it 3 1/2 years later with approximately 70k miles on it for $20k. That same car today starts around $28k. It went up in price. The only people overpaying are those who buy Teslas before today.

I’m going to stick with my 6S for as long as possible.

The price of iPhones is about to be cut, says Apple

You should have stuck with your Subaru.

Technically, people always overpay when technology improves over iterations.

 

[SO16]

You aren't making any sense.

In your example I actually have a phone to use the entire time.

If the price drops a year later, that's irrelevant.

FSD on the other hand has not been delivered

It's effectively PREORDER

So yes, if the price dropped before they ever actually delivered the product, I'd absolutely expect to get some of my pre-payment back. As should anybody. As does anybody with literally any other product from any other company.




As noted elsewhere that would require a flux capacity, and the Model 3 battery can't output the 1.21 GW needed.

Now, if I could refuse delivery of my preorder of FSD that still has not been delivered and rebuy at the new lower price, like you can for every other preorder in the world, that'd be great.

Tesla doesn't seem willing to let anyone to that though.

Give Tesla some time to get some of this straightened out.

 

[SunCharged]

I’m going to stick with my 6S for as long as possible.

The price of iPhones is about to be cut, says Apple

You should have stuck with your Subaru.

Technically, people always overpay when technology improves over iterations.

That article you cite is from the UK. I’m in the US.

 

[SO16]

That article you cite is from the UK. I’m in the US.

Bummer

 

[Knightshade]

Does the contract you signed, say anything about being entitled to price reductions?

I'm not asking for a price reduction on a delivered product.

Are you still unaware, after being told multiple times, that FSD is a pre-order and has not actually been delivered to any customers yet?

Since you ask about the contract though, the nearest thing is the MVPA- which says this:

Your Vehicle is priced and configured based on features and options available at the time of order

FSD remains a feature/option not actually available so there's no reason Tesla could not allow me to be refunded the difference, or to at least cancel that preorder and re-buy it at the current, lower, STILL preorder, price.

As literally every other company on earth does, regarding pre-orders.

 

[Larry W]

FSD remains a feature/option not actually available so there's no reason Tesla could not allow me to be refunded the difference, or to at least cancel that preorder and re-buy it at the current, lower, STILL preorder, price.

Depending on your determination and comfort level, you could dispute the charge with your CC company, if paid that way. It would be difficult for them to show you have received anything.

 

[Knightshade]

Depending on your determination and comfort level, you could dispute the charge with your CC company, if paid that way. It would be difficult for them to show you have received anything.

Nope- CC chargebacks generally have a max 60-120 day window (depending on specifics)

 

[SO16]

I'm not asking for a price reduction on a delivered product.

Are you still unaware, after being told multiple times, that FSD is a pre-order and has not actually been delivered to any customers yet?

Since you ask about the contract though, the nearest thing is the MVPA- which says this:



FSD remains a feature/option not actually available so there's no reason Tesla could not allow me to be refunded the difference, or to at least cancel that preorder and re-buy it at the current, lower, STILL preorder, price.

As literally every other company on earth does, regarding pre-orders.

I didn’t order FSD at time of purchase of my vehicle in late 2016. Especially since the way it was packaged, there were no FSD features enabled. I prefer to know exactly what I’m buying. Fortunately, FSD is not a mandatory purchase. People have a choice. Now they package it differently. Again, still have a choice to NOT prepurchase it.

As long as it isn’t illegal, Tesla can do things “different”. Every other car manufacturer sells through dealerships in the US. Tesla doesn’t. And I’m glad.

 

[Knightshade]

As long as it isn’t illegal, Tesla can do things “different”.

If they don't refund the pre-order then a court will get to decide if it is legal or not.

Here's the FTC page on what someone selling via the internet/phone/mail must do regarding preordering things they don't have the ability to immediately deliver:

Business Guide to the FTC's Mail, Internet, or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule

When You Must Cancel an Order
You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:

• the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;

Interestingly it also notes a seller must either offer an expected delivery date when you order (which Tesla hasn't done for FSD), or the law assumes it's 30 days and they must notify you if they can't hit either date and offer you the chance to cancel and get a full refund.


This would hardly be the first illegal thing Tesla has done though... (they delivered a TON of cars with the Monroney stickers removed from the car window for example- each car you do that on is a federal crime with a large cash fine attached..... they delivered my personal vehicle without having done a state inspection, also literally a crime in my state)

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This would hardly be the first illegal thing Tesla has done though... (they delivered a TON of cars with the Monroney stickers removed from the car window for example- each car you do that on is a federal crime with a large cash fine attached..... they delivered my personal vehicle without having done a state inspection, also literally a crime in my state)

If it's treated as an out-of-state purchase, it doesn't need an inspection.

 

[SO16]

If they don't refund the pre-order then a court will get to decide if it is legal or not.

Here's the FTC page on what someone selling via the internet/phone/mail must do regarding preordering things they don't have the ability to immediately deliver:

Business Guide to the FTC's Mail, Internet, or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule


Interestingly it also notes a seller must either offer an expected delivery date when you order (which Tesla hasn't done for FSD), or the law assumes it's 30 days and they must notify you if they can't hit either date and offer you the chance to cancel and get a full refund.


This would hardly be the first illegal thing Tesla has done though... (they delivered a TON of cars with the Monroney stickers removed from the car window for example- each car you do that on is a federal crime with a large cash fine attached..... they delivered my personal vehicle without having done a state inspection, also literally a crime in my state)

Interesting. This just reinforces my decision to NOT purchase something on a “promise”.

 

[Larry W]

Nope- CC chargebacks generally have a max 60-120 day window (depending on specifics)

That applies only if you had received the goods or services you purchased. If merchants are unable to dellver within a specified/reasonable time frame, the buyer should be offered the option of a refund or an extension to the wait time. In this case, there is no financial harm to the seller since nothing was physically produced or added to the vehicle.

 

[Larry W]

Nope- CC chargebacks generally have a max 60-120 day window (depending on specifics)

And, if you agree to a partial refund, such as the $1,000.00 discussed elsewhere, you will have nothing to dispute.

 

[Knightshade]

If it's treated as an out-of-state purchase, it doesn't need an inspection.

...what?

It's illegal in NC for any vehicle manufacturer or car dealer to deliver a new vehicle to a customer in the state without a NC state inspection.

Which is what Tesla did in NC. And not just to my car.

it's also illegal to deliver one with the Monroney sticker removed from the window, in any US state, and they did that a lot

 

[DrGene]

I've been testing the self driving software and I find it deadly. I do not plan on using it. Maybe in the future. In discussing with a friend who just bought a new Honda CRV with self driving software we both agree that sometimes the software makes mistakes that can be deadly. Also I find it to be too aggressive most of the time because it lacks an ability to see dangers lurking.

 

[Knightshade]

I've been testing the self driving software and I find it deadly. I do not plan on using it. Maybe in the future. In discussing with a friend who just bought a new Honda CRV with self driving software we both agree that sometimes the software makes mistakes that can be deadly. Also I find it to be too aggressive most of the time because it lacks an ability to see dangers lurking.

Neither Tesla nor Honda offer self driving features at this time, they only offer driver-assistance features that still require an active and engaged driver to be in control at all times.

So no idea what you tested.


That said- NHTSA and other data show that using those driver assist features-on a tesla at least- results in a MUCH safer drive than not using them.

 

[Eno Deb]

That said- NHTSA and other data show that using those driver assist features-on a tesla at least- results in a MUCH safer drive than not using them.

That is far from being an established fact. The NHTSA itself says it did not assess the system's effectiveness in avoiding accidents:

U.S. safety agency says 'did not assess' Tesla Autopilot effectiveness | Reuters

"A U.S. traffic safety regulator on Wednesday contradicted Tesla Inc’s claim that the agency had found that its Autopilot technology significantly reduced crashes, saying that regulators “did not assess” the system’s effectiveness in a 2017 report."

 

[Knightshade]

It did not asses the effectiveness.

It just reported the fact the accident rate was much lower on AP installed cars-

The report said crash rates fell by 40 percent after installation of Autopilot’s Autosteer function, and noted that this number was derived from Tesla airbag deployment data.

tesla has since published its own data which also shows accident rates much lower with AP than without it

 

[Eno Deb]

It did not asses the effectiveness.

It just reported the fact the accident rate was much lower on AP installed cars-

The analysis was likely flawed and, by the NHTSA's own admission, does not support the claim you made.

tesla has since published its own data which also shows accident rates much lower with AP than without it

Of course they have.