Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[Glamisduner]

I think people are crazy if they buy FSD for an additional 2k. The value of this package is $5 for everyone who purchased before the price changes. This is because tesla has created that value for it. Don't support them on asking for more money if you already paid 5k for EAP! Don't give them a dime more. They specifically told early adopters that FSD package would cost more later, only to go back on their word and do the EXACT opposite. Stone cold about it too! Not cool.

Plus we all know waiting pays off with tesla. It's likely best to not purchase any software upgrades if your getting a new car. Apparently they will reward you later with cheaper prices on those software updates. Right now if you have EAP buying FSD gives you absolutely no additional features. By the time those features are out you may be in a different car!

If you want to donate to tesla go ahead and give them your 2K though. Otherwise I would suggest not supporting this flip/flopping company tactic on their software upgrades.

All they had to do was leave FSD at 3k to upgrade for EAP users, and offer the package to anyone who bought neither at 8k. No one would be upset.

 

[OCR1]

I’m not buying it because I don’t believe in buying vaporware. If they can demonstrate a functional product that provides value to me I’m happy to pay for it. But I have no plans to loan them my money on the hopes that they will figure out how to deliver it, and get the regulators to approve it. By the time that happens who knows if I’ll still have this car.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I’m not buying it because I don’t believe in buying vaporware. If they can demonstrate a functional product that provides value to me I’m happy to pay for it. But I have no plans to loan them my money on the hopes that they will figure out how to deliver it, and get the regulators to approve it. By the time that happens who knows if I’ll still have this car.

There are now features assigned to FSD.

If you don't want the features....then please don't buy it.

Tesla doesn't need a whole lot more negativity.

 

[woodisgood]

I’m not buying it because I don’t believe in buying vaporware. If they can demonstrate a functional product that provides value to me I’m happy to pay for it. But I have no plans to loan them my money on the hopes that they will figure out how to deliver it, and get the regulators to approve it. By the time that happens who knows if I’ll still have this car.

As an EAP purchaser, 2K is a very fair upgrade price for FSD (I probably wouldn't have bought the upgrade for any more than that so they will probably get 2K from me they wouldn't have otherwise). BUT I do need to see some FSD features coming to fruition as well as a plan for the rollout/upgrade of HW3 before I'm willing to pay. Hopefully that 2K offer remains available until that point.

 

[Glamisduner]

As an EAP purchaser, 2K is a very fair upgrade price for FSD (I probably wouldn't have bought the upgrade for any more than that so they will probably get 2K from me they wouldn't have otherwise). BUT I do need to see some FSD features coming to fruition as well as a plan for the rollout/upgrade of HW3 before I'm willing to pay. Hopefully that 2K offer remains available until that point.

There seems to be a good chance it will get cheaper or become free later on. Tesla rewards people who don't pay now.

 

[ChrisH]

Yeah. I’m not paying them MORE money when my same car is $3500 cheaper than I bought it for six months ago.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

This is one of those times where you have to decide if you want to vote on the principals or if you're excited by the idea of getting future updates.

It's important to stop thinking about this in terms of FSD. Let's just assume that's the 2nd best con job of the century. So we absolutely detest it for the sake of argument.

So what does paying $2K get you?

It's get you the HW3 upgrade.

So what does that do for you?

Under normal driving it gives you better neural network accuracy, and faster detection. The means the car will be able to better detect vehicles, and pedestrians. This is going to happen practically out of the gate as they already have the NN for it.

So you're already getting something even if no FSD features are released. Odds are feature will get released as there are a lot of neat things you can do with large neural networks like the HW3 is capable of. Basically you're going from something that was at it's limits to something Tesla has a lot more room to grow with.

What happens if you don't?

You'll see the HW3 people getting features that you don't get. The HW2 people have already experienced this as they don't get Dash Cam, or Sentry Mode.

My advise is to upgrade because you don't want to be stuck in limbo land when TMC is full of adult kids opening their Christmas present, and your stuck with "I decided not to on principal so no fun toy to play with today".

Disclaimer - I would have said to buy at $3K, and now it's $2K. So my timing can't be trusted on this kind of thing. Take my advice at your own risk.

 

[Glamisduner]

This is one of those times where you have to decide if you want to vote on the principals or if you're excited by the idea of getting future updates.

It's important to stop thinking about this in terms of FSD. Let's just assume that's the 2nd best con job of the century. So we absolutely detest it for the sake of argument.

So what does paying $2K get you?

It's get you the HW3 upgrade.

So what does that do for you?

Under normal driving it gives you better neural network accuracy, and faster detection. The means the car will be able to better detect vehicles, and pedestrians. This is going to happen practically out of the gate as they already have the NN for it.

So you're already getting something even if no FSD features are released.

What happens if you don't?

You'll see the HW3 people getting features that you don't get. The HW2 people have already experienced this as they don't get Dash Cam, or Sentry Mode.

My advise is to upgrade because you don't want to be stuck in limbo land when TMC is full of adult kids opening their Christmas present, and your stuck with "I decided not to on principal so no fun toy to play with today".

Disclaimer - I would have said to buy at $3K, and now it's $2K. So my timing can't be trusted on this kind of thing. Take my advice at your own risk.

What if EAP people will get the HW3 upgrade anyways, because they can't get those promised features to work on HW2.5.

What if you have to pay 2k for FSD, then also have to buy the AP3 hardware later on seperatly?

What if you pay 2k for it now and they offer it to you for free in 3 months?

What if HW2.5 works exactly the same for your current feature set as HW3?

These are all unknowns, I think your view is making allot of assumptions.

 

[Eno Deb]

So what does paying $2K get you?

It's get you the HW3 upgrade.

So what does that do for you?

Under normal driving it gives you better neural network accuracy, and faster detection. The means the car will be able to better detect vehicles, and pedestrians. This is going to happen practically out of the gate as they already have the NN for it.

Can I get this in writing from Tesla? It's just as well possible that HW3 does exactly zip for the existing features, and that the new features won't be usable for a long time. Heck, it is even possible that they suddenly "discover" that they can cobble together something that vaguely resembles the promised features without spending millions to update existing cars.

 

[electrictorque]

I did the exact opposite. Thanks

 

[SageBrush]

I'm undecided about the upgrade mostly because most of my driving is local. And to add to my indecision, I recognize that my desire for excellent pedestrian and animal collision avoidance may not be fulfilled until hardware after AP 3 is developed. I suppose I fall into the 'buy when it does what I want' camp.

That is in regards to the FSD. However, $2,000 for TACC and lane keep for my car is tempting.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

What if EAP people will get the HW3 upgrade anyways, because they can't get those promised features to work on HW2.5.

What if you have to pay 2k for FSD, than also buy the AP3 hardware later on?

What if you pay 2k for it now and they offer it to you for free in 3 months?

Anyone that gets FSD will get the AP3 hardware.

Like I paid $3K for FSD, and I expect to be upgraded. I don't know when, but I expect it will be within 3-6 months.

As to offering it free to HW2.5 owners? No, I don't think that's going to happen. History has shown that Tesla doesn't feel compelled to fulfill promises with old hardware. AP1 never accomplished what it was promised, but they moved on.

With the upcoming release Tesla managed to get EAP to where they're comfortable stopping development on it. That's going to be it for any EAP owner unless the owner upgrades.

This is the time to pull the lever for FSD.

If you wait till features for FSD come out you'll find it going higher as people will wake up, and realize they don't have something needed for something new.

It's all about demand.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I'm undecided about the upgrade mostly because most of my driving is local. And to add to my indecision, I recognize that my desire for excellent pedestrian and animal collision avoidance may not be fulfilled until hardware after 3.5 is developed. I suppose I fall into the 'buy when it does what I want' camp.

That is in regards to the FSD. However, $2,000 for TACC and lane keep for my car is tempting.

There is nothing about pedestrian or animal detection that is challenging with HW3. You already have pedestrian detection with HW2.5. We don't know how good it is as no one (that I know of) has really tested it. I'm sure the IIHS is going to soon, and I look forwards to seeing the results. If it doesn't do as well as a Subaru with eyesight I'm going to be irked.

The next hardware update will likely be to sensors like adding Lidar, rear radar or things of that nature. Things that they can't upgrade in existing vehicles.

 

[Zaxxon]

Yegads, folks. Enough already*.

*-I'm aware that for many, it's not nearly enough moaning. I'll get over it.

 

[woodisgood]

There seems to be a good chance it will get cheaper or become free later on. Tesla rewards people who don't pay now.

The reason it will never be free is there is a cost to the HW3 upgrade and labor for the SCs doing it (and the burden on the SCs of having thousands of cars needing it). Now whether it can get closer to "cost" is a different question.

 

[Tam]

...What if EAP people will get the HW3 upgrade anyways, because they can't get those promised features to work on HW2.5...

What count is promised features.

If when HW2.0 was first produced, Tesla could say buy now and you'll get a dash cam feature. Then it can't say sorry, only HW2.5 can have dash cam.

Because Tesla didn't promise a dash cam feature, so it can dictate what hardware could do it.

EAP is not designed for city streets but for highways and its features are:

AutoSteer
TACC
Navigate on Autopilot
AutoPark
Summon

Elon Musk said EAP does not need HW3 because the calculation for simple highway scenarios is not as intensive as for city streets.

When you add features like:

Automatic driving on city streets
Traffic lights & stop signs automatic compliance

It gets more complicated and requires more computing power.

In summary, the chance for EAP to get further computing power upgrade is slim.

 

[Glamisduner]

What count is promised features.

If when HW2.0 was first produced, Tesla could say buy now and you'll get a dash cam feature. Then it can't say sorry, only HW2.5 can have dash cam.

Because Tesla didn't promise a dash cam feature, so it can dictate what hardware could do it.

EAP is not designed for city streets but for highways and its features are:

AutoSteer
TACC
Navigate on Autopilot
AutoPark
Summon

Elon Musk said EAP does not need HW3 because the calculation for simple highway scenarios is not as intensive and city streets.

When you add features like:

Automatic driving on city streets
Traffic lights & stop signs automatic compliance

It gets more complicated and requires more computing power.

In summary, the chance for EAP to get further computing power upgrade is slim.

Most of the EAP features are still beta. I think advanced summon may require a hardware upgrade, maybe even having a usable and working NOA. Right now it is usable sometimes, in light traffic, with long off-ramps. Often it still requires human intervention to actually get over.

So even is tesla does eventually get the rest of the FSD features, if they only work as well as NOA currently does, or summon which is so clunky I stopped using it months ago, you won't be missing out on much for some time.

 

[Glamisduner]

The reason it will never be free is there is a cost to the HW3 upgrade and labor for the SCs doing it (and the burden on the SCs of having thousands of cars needing it). Now whether it can get closer to "cost" is a different question.

It's ALREADY FREE for all prior 2019 purchasers, so how can you say for certain?

Anyone that gets FSD will get the AP3 hardware.

Like I paid $3K for FSD, and I expect to be upgraded. I don't know when, but I expect it will be within 3-6 months.

As to offering it free to HW2.5 owners? No, I don't think that's going to happen. History has shown that Tesla doesn't feel compelled to fulfill promises with old hardware. AP1 never accomplished what it was promised, but they moved on.

With the upcoming release Tesla managed to get EAP to where they're comfortable stopping development on it. That's going to be it for any EAP owner unless the owner upgrades.

This is the time to pull the lever for FSD.

If you wait till features for FSD come out you'll find it going higher as people will wake up, and realize they don't have something needed for something new.

It's all about demand.

That was the original hook, but since then it has only become cheaper not more. I think all of these features will eventually be free on all teslas, but that could be years away, or tomorrow.

 

[sduck]

Don't tell me what to do
You're not the boss of me

 

[Tam]

...I think advanced summon may require a hardware upgrade, maybe even having a usable and working NOA...

If Tesla promises audio, that doesn't automatically mean premium audio.

NOA does not mean flawless NOA. As long as it requires an attentive driver, Tesla is off the hook for providing NOA with an attentive driver.

Summon is slow speed in a very limited distance so I doubt it requires more than HW2.0