Electrician installed wall connector using Romex 8/3 + 60A breaker

[JAGBEAR]

IN preparation for my EV Charger install, I have spent the last 2+ hours reading forums regarding the use of 6/2 NM-B and I'm convinced that I should use #4 NM-B for a 48A load with a 60A CB. As we all know 4/2 NM-B is not available so i would have to buy 4/3. Of course #4 has a larger bending radius so it is harder to work with. I want to revisit a topic brought up briefly at the beginning of this thread regarding TCERJP. It still has 4 conductors, but AWG6 would be easier to install. The question is whether this cable can use the 75C column (65A) or the 60C Column (55A) for ampacity. The datasheet gives an exception for "permanently installed generator applications" but I don't know if that would apply to EV chargers. This is the cable I'm talking about:

EV Charger Installation Wire #6 x 3 + #8 Ground Copper TCERJP (Trable) – Ziller Electric

INSTALLING YOUR EV (ELECTRIC VEHICLE) CHARGING STATION IS NOW QUICK AND EASY! OUR EV INSTALLATION WIRE (TRABLE) IS JUST WHAT YOU NEED! STARTING AT $9.01 THE PRICE PER FOOT DECREASES AS LENGTH INCREASES. CHOOSE LENGTH TO SEE YOUR TOTAL SHIPPED PRICE **This 4 Conductor EV Cable includes the...

www.zillerelectric.com

The cable description sounds perfect. "EV Charger Installation Wire #6 x 3 + #8 Ground Copper TCERJP (Trable)

 

[h2ofun]

IN preparation for my EV Charger install, I have spent the last 2+ hours reading forums regarding the use of 6/2 NM-B and I'm convinced that I should use #4 NM-B for a 48A load with a 60A CB. As we all know 4/2 NM-B is not available so i would have to buy 4/3. Of course #4 has a larger bending radius so it is harder to work with. I want to revisit a topic brought up briefly at the beginning of this thread regarding TCERJP. It still has 4 conductors, but AWG6 would be easier to install. The question is whether this cable can use the 75C column (65A) or the 60C Column (55A) for ampacity. The datasheet gives an exception for "permanently installed generator applications" but I don't know if that would apply to EV chargers. This is the cable I'm talking about:

EV Charger Installation Wire #6 x 3 + #8 Ground Copper TCERJP (Trable) – Ziller Electric

INSTALLING YOUR EV (ELECTRIC VEHICLE) CHARGING STATION IS NOW QUICK AND EASY! OUR EV INSTALLATION WIRE (TRABLE) IS JUST WHAT YOU NEED! STARTING AT $9.01 THE PRICE PER FOOT DECREASES AS LENGTH INCREASES. CHOOSE LENGTH TO SEE YOUR TOTAL SHIPPED PRICE **This 4 Conductor EV Cable includes the...

www.zillerelectric.com

The cable description sounds perfect. "EV Charger Installation Wire #6 x 3 + #8 Ground Copper TCERJP (Trable)

Yep, but I solved the issue by just running wires and conduit, number 6 at 125c, so I am good to 75 amps now.

 

[appleguru]

IN preparation for my EV Charger install, I have spent the last 2+ hours reading forums regarding the use of 6/2 NM-B and I'm convinced that I should use #4 NM-B for a 48A load with a 60A CB. As we all know 4/2 NM-B is not available so i would have to buy 4/3. Of course #4 has a larger bending radius so it is harder to work with. I want to revisit a topic brought up briefly at the beginning of this thread regarding TCERJP. It still has 4 conductors, but AWG6 would be easier to install. The question is whether this cable can use the 75C column (65A) or the 60C Column (55A) for ampacity. The datasheet gives an exception for "permanently installed generator applications" but I don't know if that would apply to EV chargers. This is the cable I'm talking about:

EV Charger Installation Wire #6 x 3 + #8 Ground Copper TCERJP (Trable) – Ziller Electric

INSTALLING YOUR EV (ELECTRIC VEHICLE) CHARGING STATION IS NOW QUICK AND EASY! OUR EV INSTALLATION WIRE (TRABLE) IS JUST WHAT YOU NEED! STARTING AT $9.01 THE PRICE PER FOOT DECREASES AS LENGTH INCREASES. CHOOSE LENGTH TO SEE YOUR TOTAL SHIPPED PRICE **This 4 Conductor EV Cable includes the...

www.zillerelectric.com

The cable description sounds perfect. "EV Charger Installation Wire #6 x 3 + #8 Ground Copper TCERJP (Trable)

Generally, yes, you can use the 75C column for TCERJP, though you might have an easier time finding SER.. the exception to this is if you’re running the cable under/through insulation. If so, then you must use the 60C column for ampacity.

You can also just run #6 THHN / THWN2 in conduit (even LFNC is fine), or use MC or similar.

 

[Y_so_Blue]

Has anyone seen an issue with a wall connector failing inspection with 6/3 NM-B, a 50A breaker and the wall connector commissioned for a 50A breaker?

I have a new construction and the builder ran 6/3 to a 14-50 I want to convert, but the local electrician told me he's worried the inspector may see it can be commissioned at 60A and fail inspection.

 

[h2ofun]

Has anyone seen an issue with a wall connector failing inspection with 6/3 NM-B, a 50A breaker and the wall connector commissioned for a 50A breaker?

I have a new construction and the builder ran 6/3 to a 14-50 I want to convert, but the local electrician told me he's worried the inspector may see it can be commissioned at 60A and fail inspection.

which version wall connector?
If gen 3, since says needs a 60 amp, which means either 6 thhn, which is what I did, or NM4, which I have had an inspector fail when it was not, ....

 

[Y_so_Blue]

which version wall connector?
If gen 3, since says needs a 60 amp, which means either 6 thhn, which is what I did, or NM4, which I have had an inspector fail when it was not, ....

Gen 3. Well that's frustrating, why even allow it to be commissioned at lower amperage if they can't be used/pass inspection.

 

[howardnj]

Has anyone seen an issue with a wall connector failing inspection with 6/3 NM-B, a 50A breaker and the wall connector commissioned for a 50A breaker?

I have a new construction and the builder ran 6/3 to a 14-50 I want to convert, but the local electrician told me he's worried the inspector may see it can be commissioned at 60A and fail inspection.

It would be a disaster if your newly constructed home went on fire because of a code violated EV charger installation. Why are you not checking with your local municipal building codes to determine what the local requirements are prior to the walls being closed up? My local NJ licensed electrician arranged for my local inspection and all the work they did passed inspection. I can sleep soundly at night while my Y charges nightly at 48A to 90% beginning every midnight.

 

[Y_so_Blue]

It would be a disaster if your newly constructed home went on fire because of a code violated EV charger installation. Why are you not checking with your local municipal building codes to determine what the local requirements are prior to the walls being closed up? My local NJ licensed electrician arranged for my local inspection and all the work they did passed inspection. I can sleep soundly at night while my Y charges nightly at 48A to 90% beginning every midnight.

It isn't a custom build. it's a spec home. There are options you can pick, but I couldn't ask them to use a different wiring for example.

I don't need the full rated charging amount, and would perfectly happy at 40A. I wanted the longer cable and peace of mind knowing with hard wiring I don't have to worry about either GFCI tripping or an outlet failure.

 

[appleguru]

It isn't a custom build. it's a spec home. There are options you can pick, but I couldn't ask them to use a different wiring for example.

I don't need the full rated charging amount, and would perfectly happy at 40A. I wanted the longer cable and peace of mind knowing with hard wiring I don't have to worry about either GFCI tripping or an outlet failure.

I’ve never heard of an issue with an inspector like this. 50A breaker/40A charge setting and everything should be fine and fully to code.

 

[Rocky_H]

Has anyone seen an issue with a wall connector failing inspection with 6/3 NM-B, a 50A breaker and the wall connector commissioned for a 50A breaker?

I have a new construction and the builder ran 6/3 to a 14-50 I want to convert, but the local electrician told me he's worried the inspector may see it can be commissioned at 60A and fail inspection.

Unfortunately yes, I've seen that issue come up a few times here on the forum, and it's not new. This has been cropping up rarely for many years, even going back to the old versions of wall connectors that could be configured for 100A circuits to supply 80A.

It's a mistake/lack of knowledge on the part of the inspectors, but inspectors can sometimes have a pride issue where they always think they are right and can't admit to being wrong about anything. Some would have this complaint that since the wall connector can be configured where it can use a 100A circuit they would not allow it to pass inspection unless it was actually set up with wiring and breaker for a 100A circuit. It seems the same is happening with the new ones and 60A capability.

This is incorrect on their part, but granted, it is very rare for most EVSEs to be configurable. Most of them just have one setting that can't be changed, and you have to set it up on that level of circuit, which is probably influencing their thinking because that may be what they have seen and are familiar with. The Tesla one is a little unusual in being able to set it for a 30 or 40 or 50A circuit, where it doesn't require a 60A capable circuit.

So the real answer is that what you have is correct. 6/3 NM-B cable does have a 55A rating. It is proper to use for a 50A rated circuit. The wall connector can officially be set for that 50A circuit. That is all exactly as it should be. It's just a matter of convincing this inspector or getting a second opinion from another inspector (maybe from a different county?) to give as supporting evidence that the device has these other settings for lower level circuits for this exact reason.

 

[NickFie]

Of course he'd prefer not to spend time doing a job over. Maybe next time he'll do it right the first time.

Two business guidelines might apply here.

1. Do you want to make a point, or do you want to make progress? If you want to make a point, wrestle with the first electrician. If you want to make progress, bring in a known-competent electrician and pay them a fair price to make it right.

2. Don’t expect a slug to have a backbone. Good luck wrestling with the first electrician. They need to put food on the family table. Probably can’t spare the time or money to make things right. If they even want to or have the expertise.

It’s your home, your risk, your time, your money and your convenience.

 

[qdeathstar]

Has anyone seen an issue with a wall connector failing inspection with 6/3 NM-B, a 50A breaker and the wall connector commissioned for a 50A breaker?

I have a new construction and the builder ran 6/3 to a 14-50 I want to convert, but the local electrician told me he's worried the inspector may see it can be commissioned at 60A and fail inspection.

Should not fail the inspection but he can (or you can) call his local inspection office and ask the inspector. Even if the code book allows for it AHJ takes precedence.

 

[h2ofun]

Should not fail the inspection but he can (or you can) call his local inspection office and ask the inspector. Even if the code book allows for it AHJ takes precedence.

Seems if one puts in a device, which states use certain wiring, and one does not, I do not see how it could be approved. Meaning, after inspection, one could replace the 50 amp with a 60 amp, be out of spec, and we all know some folks would do this.

 

[qdeathstar]

Seems if one puts in a device, which states use certain wiring, and one does not, I do not see how it could be approved. Meaning, after inspection, one could replace the 50 amp with a 60 amp, be out of spec, and we all know some folks would do this.

You could replace a 15 amp breaker with a 50 amp breaker for receptacles and be out of code. You don’t have to meet code for what someone could do, just for what you are doing.

 

[h2ofun]

You could replace a 15 amp breaker with a 50 amp breaker for receptacles and be out of code. You don’t have to meet code for what someone could do, just for what you are doing.

so, if a fire was caused on that line with the new breaker, would you expect insurance to cover?

 

[qdeathstar]

so, if a fire was caused on that line with the new breaker, would you expect insurance to cover?

I’m not sure what you mean. If you commission it for a 50 amp breaker (40 amps max) it is a code compliant install. Yes, I would expect insurance to cover.

If you set the evse to charge at 48 amps on a 50 amp breaker all that would likely happen would be that the breaker would trip eventually.

There is a small risk that using 6/2nm at 48 amps would cause a fire, but the most likely point of failure is the points of connection not being tightened to specification.

 

[h2ofun]

I’m not sure what you mean. If you commission it for a 50 amp breaker (40 amps max) it is a code compliant install. Yes, I would expect insurance to cover.

If you set the evse to charge at 48 amps on a 50 amp breaker all that would likely happen would be that the breaker would trip eventually.

There is a small risk that using 6/2nm at 48 amps would cause a fire, but the most likely point of failure is the points of connection not being tightened to specification.

At least for the gen 3, I do not believe you can do 48 amps with a 50 amp breaker. Again, why would anyone cut corners? Makes no sense to me.

 

[qdeathstar]

At least for the gen 3, I do not believe you can do 48 amps with a 50 amp breaker. Again, why would anyone cut corners? Makes no sense to me.

A 50 amp breaker would require it be set to 40 amps. It isn’t cutting corners.

 

[STS-134]

If you set the evse to charge at 48 amps on a 50 amp breaker all that would likely happen would be that the breaker would trip eventually.

I actually don't think the breaker is likely to ever trip. The thermal mechanism takes a long time to trip even if you're drawing 50-100% too much current, slightly varies from breaker to breaker due to manufacturing differences, and needs to not trip if the current is under the rated load and the breaker happens to be located in a hot area (panel in the sun or in a hot garage). The breaker is supposed to be able to handle 100% of its rated load for up to 3 hours and the only way to get it to trip like it should is by using an electronic sensing mechanism instead of a mechanical device that bends when it gets hot.

 

[qdeathstar]

I actually don't think the breaker is likely to ever trip. The thermal mechanism takes a long time to trip even if you're drawing 50-100% too much current, slightly varies from breaker to breaker due to manufacturing differences, and needs to not trip if the current is under the rated load and the breaker happens to be located in a hot area (panel in the sun or in a hot garage). The breaker is supposed to be able to handle 100% of its rated load for up to 3 hours and the only way to get it to trip like it should is by using an electronic sensing mechanism instead of a mechanical device that bends when it gets hot.

Yeah, but I have seen breakers trip when they draw 18 amps on a 20 amp circuit. It just depends on how well they are able to get thermally soaked. Eventually given the right circumstance I think it will trip.