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Electrician installed wall connector using Romex 8/3 + 60A breaker

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I actually don't think the breaker is likely to ever trip. The thermal mechanism takes a long time to trip even if you're drawing 50-100% too much current, slightly varies from breaker to breaker due to manufacturing differences, and needs to not trip if the current is under the rated load and the breaker happens to be located in a hot area (panel in the sun or in a hot garage). The breaker is supposed to be able to handle 100% of its rated load for up to 3 hours and the only way to get it to trip like it should is by using an electronic sensing mechanism instead of a mechanical device that bends when it gets hot.
I've literally seen posts from folks saying they had a 50A breaker trip after charging at 48A for several hours. (Yes, they were told that they needed to change it to a 40A limit or a 60A circuit.)

I've also seen properly rated breakers trip if they are in a garage wall that is being baked by the sun.
 
Should not fail the inspection but he can (or you can) call his local inspection office and ask the inspector. Even if the code book allows for it AHJ takes precedence.

Seems if one puts in a device, which states use certain wiring, and one does not, I do not see how it could be approved. Meaning, after inspection, one could replace the 50 amp with a 60 amp, be out of spec, and we all know some folks would do this.

The manual does not specify wiring EXCEPT for max power other than to say refer to the local code.

People could do a a lot crazy/extreme things after the electrician and inspector leave (which I think is qdeathstar's point).

It'll be commissioned for a 50A breaker and set to 40A. It won't be set to 60/48 nor will a 60A breaker be installed. I have zero intention, need, or desire to run it at 48.

The manual states this regarding wiring (red emphasis mine):
Branch Circuit Conductors and Ground Wire
• If installing for less than maximum power, refer to local electrical code to select correct conductors
and ground wire size that are suitable for the chosen circuit breaker.
• If installing for maximum power, use minimum 6 AWG, 90° C-rated copper wire for conductors.
NOTE: Upsize conductors if necessary.
• For sites with multiple Wall Connectors, each Wall Connector must have its own branch circuit with L1,
L2/N, and Ground.
• COPPER WIRE TERMINATIONS ONLY for landing in Wall Connector wirebox terminals. Conductors
can be stranded or solid.
• Hardwire branch circuits to disconnects or circuit breakers. Do NOT install cord-and-plug type
connections.
• For outdoor installations, use watertight fittings when securing feeder wires to the wirebox.
 
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Same here. I now have 4 quotes and all electricians are saying #6/2 on a 60 Amp circuit. One even said #4/2 does not exist or is rare to find. These folks have installed many Tesla connectors in my town with exact same wire and the town inspection passed. No conduit was required. However, if I insisted on #4 THHN, then they said they would have to use Conduit (as I found out in another thread) and cost of the install went up a lot. I am sticking to #6/2 and lowering the Amps to 40 Amp instead. Planning to get the installation done in next couple of weeks.

So what's confusing me is that how come all electricians in my area (Massachusetts) are wrong and folks on this board are all right? Where did you purchase #4/2 NM-B wire? Even the town inspector seems foolish if he is approving all these #6/2 installs. I now have couple of references in town whom I plan to visit to check out the #6/2 install.
11 year Electrican here, most people saying OPs installation is wrong are in fact wrong.
I’ve installed many TWCs and I always ask for the desired charging amperage. If they are only wanting 32A then I’m gonna pull #8/2 on a 50A breaker and be done but if they want 48 then I’m going #6/2 with a 60. It’s all preference and the OPs electrician is getting his balls busted for no reason.
 
11 year Electrican here, most people saying OPs installation is wrong are in fact wrong.
I’ve installed many TWCs and I always ask for the desired charging amperage. If they are only wanting 32A then I’m gonna pull #8/2 on a 50A breaker and be done but if they want 48 then I’m going #6/2 with a 60. It’s all preference and the OPs electrician is getting his balls busted for no reason.
Uh, did you read OP's first post?

... a licensed electrician just installed my Wall Connector using Romex 8/3 and a 60A breaker for a 40ft run. I believe a 60A breaker should use at least Romex 6/3. I realized this after he had left, and just called him back to come rectify. He tried to convince me that because the wall connector draws only 48A, I should be good.
So, you're good with 8/3 Romex with a 60A breaker and a 48A continuous draw?
 
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IN preparation for my EV Charger install, I have spent the last 2+ hours reading forums regarding the use of 6/2 NM-B and I'm convinced that I should use #4 NM-B for a 48A load with a 60A CB. As we all know 4/2 NM-B is not available so i would have to buy 4/3. Of course #4 has a larger bending radius so it is harder to work with. I want to revisit a topic brought up briefly at the beginning of this thread regarding TCERJP. It still has 4 conductors, but AWG6 would be easier to install. The question is whether this cable can use the 75C column (65A) or the 60C Column (55A) for ampacity. The datasheet gives an exception for "permanently installed generator applications" but I don't know if that would apply to EV chargers. This is the cable I'm talking about:


The cable description sounds perfect. "EV Charger Installation Wire #6 x 3 + #8 Ground Copper TCERJP (Trable)
You don’t need 4 conductors for a TWC, the TWC is a 240v charger so just a BLACK/WHITE/BARE is necessary for installation.
 
11 year Electrican here, most people saying OPs installation is wrong are in fact wrong.
I’ve installed many TWCs and I always ask for the desired charging amperage. If they are only wanting 32A then I’m gonna pull #8/2 on a 50A breaker and be done but if they want 48 then I’m going #6/2 with a 60. It’s all preference and the OPs electrician is getting his balls busted for no reason.

Are you talking about Romex or THHN in conduit ? If Romex, then you are wrong in each case. Look up the NEC 310.16 table, and 334.80
 
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11 year Electrican here, most people saying OPs installation is wrong are in fact wrong.
I’ve installed many TWCs and I always ask for the desired charging amperage. If they are only wanting 32A then I’m gonna pull #8/2 on a 50A breaker and be done but if they want 48 then I’m going #6/2 with a 60. It’s all preference and the OPs electrician is getting his balls busted for no reason.
Well, now we know how all these bad installs happen...
 
Read most of these posts and now I can’t see straight. My electrician installed 60 amp with 6/3 Romex. 20 ft run. Last 4 ft in conduit. Am I ok? If not can I turn charge down to 44 or 40 and be fine? Thank you
1) For 6 gauge NM-B (6/3), for continuous use applications including vehicle charging, the circuit breaker should be changed from 60A to 50A.
2) The Wall Connector should be provisioned/re-set for 50A (Setting the Wall Connector for a 50A circuit will automatically limit charging to 40A.)
3) Conduit is allowed where needed to protect the NM-B (Romex) type wiring. (With standard NM-B (Romex) all wiring must be indoors, dry locations, not underground.)
 
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Did a little Googling. First: ROMEX is a brand name. It's type, for the purposes of current carrying, is NM-B, where, "NM" means non-metallic sheathing.

Fast answer: No, you're not OK. See this link: Cerrowire Resources - Ampacity Charts

NM-B has a current carrying limit of 55A. That's the circuit rating. If you have a 60A breaker, you're supposed to be using wire that can handle 60A or better. Oops.

What's going on? I'll make it short and simple.

  1. The wire you want is made out of copper.
  2. Copper has resistance, usually expressed as ohms per foot, or maybe ohms per meter.
  3. Power dissipated in a wire, per unit length, goes as Current*Current*Resistance/Length, and that gives you Watts per foot, or maybe Watts per meter.
  4. So, there's heat in that there wire. It has to be dissipated to the environment somehow, or it's going to heat up until it turns white-hot.
  5. The heat has to go through the plastic insulation. Futher, if the cable is buried in a wall somewhere, the heat has to get through the wall materials into the open air. You get the idea. The manufacturer of said wire has the temperature that the wire has to run in, what the material is made out of, and builds it to that spec.
  6. The electrician in your case definitely used the wrong wire. Should have used, say, ROMEX 4/3, which, because the wire is thicker, it's got less resistance, generates less heat. Or used some other wire in that table linked above that's good, with 6GA wire, for 65A or 70A.
  7. Note: If an electrical inspector sees this, it won't pass.
  8. In this list, final, but Really Important Note: Violate the NEC and what happens is that the insulation gets degraded. Maybe not on the first shot, or the second; but, eventually, the insulation goes bye-bye and You Get A Short (if you're lucky) and the breaker pops or a partial short, in which case the breaker doesn't pop but the house burns down. I'm not joking.
Next short list: the NEC circuit limits are, vaguely, for loads that don't last very long. Constant heavy loads result in the circuit being derated 20%. Which is why you need a 60A circuit to carry a 48A (80% of 60A) load.

So, you've got the wrong wire installed. It's only good for 55A. 80% of 55A = 44A.

But this is an installation for the long term. My opinion: Drag the electrician back, threaten him/her with the local building inspector, and make him/her fix it by using the correct gauge and/or type of wire.

Minor comment: Right now, in Central New Jersey, there's a local electrician advertising on the radio for wiring up houses for electric charging. His particular shtick is that he's got Factory Trained Technicians on staff that'll will do it right. But he makes the point that, even if you don't use his company's services, that one should make sure that the installer is trained on this stuff. Man has a point. It's advertising, but he still has a point.
 
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Did a little Googling. First: ROMEX is a brand name. It's type, for the purposes of current carrying, is NM-B, where, "NM" means non-metallic sheathing.

Fast answer: No, you're not OK. See this link: Cerrowire Resources - Ampacity Charts

NM-B has a current carrying limit of 55A. That's the circuit rating. If you have a 60A breaker, you're supposed to be using wire that can handle 60A or better. Oops.

What's going on? I'll make it short and simple.

  1. The wire you want is made out of copper.
  2. Copper has resistance, usually expressed as ohms per foot, or maybe ohms per meter.
  3. Power dissipated in a wire, per unit length, goes as Current*Current*Resistance/Length, and that gives you Watts per foot, or maybe Watts per meter.
  4. So, there's heat in that there wire. It has to be dissipated to the environment somehow, or it's going to heat up until it turns white-hot.
  5. The heat has to go through the plastic insulation. Futher, if the cable is buried in a wall somewhere, the heat has to get through the wall materials into the open air. You get the idea. The manufacturer of said wire has the temperature that the wire has to run in, what the material is made out of, and builds it to that spec.
  6. The electrician in your case definitely used the wrong wire. Should have used, say, ROMEX 4/3, which, because the wire is thicker, it's got less resistance, generates less heat. Or used some other wire in that table linked above that's good, with 6GA wire, for 65A or 70A.
  7. Note: If an electrical inspector sees this, it won't pass.
  8. In this list, final, but Really Important Note: Violate the NEC and what happens is that the insulation gets degraded. Maybe not on the first shot, or the second; but, eventually, the insulation goes bye-bye and You Get A Short (if you're lucky) and the breaker pops or a partial short, in which case the breaker doesn't pop but the house burns down. I'm not joking.
Next short list: the NEC circuit limits are, vaguely, for loads that don't last very long. Constant heavy loads result in the circuit being derated 20%. Which is why you need a 60A circuit to carry a 48A (80% of 60A) load.

So, you've got the wrong wire installed. It's only good for 55A. 80% of 55A = 44A.

But this is an installation for the long term. My opinion: Drag the electrician back, threaten him/her with the local building inspector, and make him/her fix it by using the correct gauge and/or type of wire.

Minor comment: Right now, in Central New Jersey, there's a local electrician advertising on the radio for wiring up houses for electric charging. His particular shtick is that he's got Factory Trained Technicians on staff that'll will do it right. But he makes the point that, even if you don't use his company's services, that one should make sure that the installer is trained on this stuff. Man has a point. It's advertising, but he still has a point.
Thank you . seems to me we swap beaker to 50 amp and call it good. Correct?
 
Thank you . seems to me we swap beaker to 50 amp and call it good. Correct?

No. The circuit has to be sized to the load, which in your case is 48A * 1.25 as the car and TWC are currently configured. The practical problem with your solution is that the car will continue to pull 48A. You are likely to have breaker trip problems, and the wiring is being stressed above its NEC allowed limits.
Until this is done should I lower the charging amp to 40, 30 or not use at all?

40 Amps maximum load, and a 50A breaker. Set this in the TWC, the car setting is not reliable enough
 
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No. The circuit has to be sized to the load, which in your case is 48A * 1.25 as the car and TWC are currently configured. The practical problem with your solution is that the car will continue to pull 48A. You are likely to have breaker trip problems, and the wiring is being stressed above its NEC allowed limits.


40 Amps maximum load, and a 50A breaker. Set this in the TWC, the car setting is not reliable enough
If I switch to 50
Amp with 6/3 Romex I’ll only draw 40
Amps. Won’t this solve my problem?
 
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If I switch to 50
Amp with 6/3 Romex I’ll only draw 40
Amps. Won’t this solve my problem?
You use the Wall Connector app (I’m assuming you have the V3 latest) to change the breaker amps to 50A in the settings. Then when you get around to it, you can swap out the 60A breaker to 50A.

OR you can realize that this mistake of using NM-B with a 60A breaker is done literally all the time by licensed electricians, and we have yet to hear of any serious problems on these forums from doing this. Bear in mind that the actual wire inside the NM-B sheath is rated for 60A, it is just the sheath that isn’t, and it is a very conservative rating for outlier installs like the NM—B being run in a hot uninsulated attic under insulation, etc.