Fortunately, they're following the Tesla model for these things. Good thing we've all invested in Tesla to show the world the way.
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Electrify America general discussion
- Thread starter Mockingbird
- Start date
bradtem
Robocar consultant
EA's new vision is dripping with "gasoline thinking." The idea that you drive EVs like gasoline cars, letting them get low, and then going for a "fill up" which you do while you wait. I try to never wait while charging. I work hard to always have something else to do -- shop, eat but most of all sleep. Sometimes I see Tesla owners sitting in their cars but it's rare.
What is "gasoline thinking" about it?
Other than the presence of a sign showing the prices, I don't see what it has in common with a gas station.
bradtem
Robocar consultant
Gasoline thinking is the idea that you recharge cars the way you fill them with gasoline. That you drive around until they are low, then hunt for a station and fill up while you wait. EV thinking is you never wait for charging if you can avoid it. You charge while doing something else, ideally sleeping or working, but if not, then shopping/eating or similar. Owned a Tesla since 2018 and while I have had to wait while charging a handful of times (and I've taken many long road trips) it is just a handful.
The difference is that Tesla put that station in the "middle of nowhere" between metropolitan areas while EA is putting them in urban/suburban areas.
I have no problem with EA developing larger sites with extra services on-site. They call out Baker as being one of their existing "flagship locations" but all it has is pull-through stations and a solar awning. There are no supplemental facilities like bathrooms, food, or a lounge, last I checked.
Just took my older model s on its first real road trip from Salt Lake to Vegas. I have a chademo adapter so I figured I'd stop at an ea station to speed things up a little.
I got it to work eventually on the first visit.
In the return trip though, first I had to call them to reboot it so the card reader worked. Then after I finished charging it wouldn't release my chademo adapter. So I had to call them yet again.
I want EA to succeed. I really do. But I got to say I don't see how any other charging network besides the supercharger network is a viable option yet.
I got it to work eventually on the first visit.
In the return trip though, first I had to call them to reboot it so the card reader worked. Then after I finished charging it wouldn't release my chademo adapter. So I had to call them yet again.
I want EA to succeed. I really do. But I got to say I don't see how any other charging network besides the supercharger network is a viable option yet.
Doing a vacation from Seattle to Bend OR. I think I had to briefly hit a Tesla charger at Detroit OR because I left the prior stop a hair early. Otherwise charged at non-tesla chargers exclusively (because they are cheaper).
N.B.: I have a CCS capable car and the EVHub adapter
N.B.: I have a CCS capable car and the EVHub adapter
CHAdeMO support is notoriously bad at Electrify America for obvious reasons.
Superchargers don't even have credit card readers.
That site is near a ton of fast food restaurants. A friend of mine will stop there and walk across the road, grab something to eat at In-N-Out Burger, and bring it to the lounge to eat while his car charges. Also across the road from that site is Bravo Farms, which is where I usually get something to eat while on a road trip past that location. Although now that Tesla has opened 55 stalls literally in the Bravo Farms parking lot, I'd probably charge there instead, unless those are full.
As for Electrify America, check out this note that I found at a EA site yesterday. They really didn't think through this whole CHAdeMO thing, did they?
It is plainly obvious Electrify America doesn't care about CHAdeMO because its parent company (Volkswagen) doesn't use CHAdeMO, and neither do any of its partners (BMW, Ford, Hyundai, KIA, Lucid, Mercedes, Polestar, Volvo).
In fact, Electrify America has already stopped installing new chargers with CHAdeMO.
bradtem
Robocar consultant
Yup, I have charged in that station. It is the only one like it, though Electrify America says it plans to make many of that sort.
Yes, even Tesla can commit gasoline thinking, but this is a case where EVs are not at the level where there is any choice, if you are in the middle of nowhere between large cities in rural land. And because many Tesla buyers can't get charging at home or work, they have no choice but gasoline thinking. That means it happens, even if it's not great.
That style of supercharger actually is good for a remote road trip charger.
In the future, road trip charging looks like:
- Charge to near full at your hotel with level 2 while you sleep.
- Eat a late lunch while supercharging.
- Eat dinner where you want, or also do it while supercharging if you are crazy enough to drive more than 450 miles (SR+) or 600 miles (LR) in a day.
- Reach your hotel and plug in for the night.
Of course, in your home town you should have charging at home or work, and thus almost never need superchargers, unless you only have Level 1, where you might need a supercharger a few times a year. But generally you don't have a gasoline car, so don't recharge it like one.
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Arizona Public Service (APS) owns that Electrify America charging station.
APS plans Electrify America charging stations for Show Low, Globe, Payson, Prescott, and Sedona.
bradtem
Robocar consultant
If they did care, they could put in a heuristic that disables the CCS port on the dual-use unit if 2 or more other CCS ports are free. When only one port is free there is a risk that somebody is parked there and setting up. In that case, they could show "Please use one of the other CCS ports to leave the only CHAdeMO port free. Press here if none of the CCS ports are available." Some people would cheat, which you could either tolerate, or you could note that in fact nobody charged in the next 5 minutes on the CCS ports they said were busy (as long as they were known to work through other use) and then end their charge and tell them to move. Or, though a bit more complex, they could allow people wanting the CdM port to come to the open CCS charger and select a menu item, and if they cheated, end their session then. Though that could cause some fights. You need to be dead sure they are telling the truth to do that, ie. that the open charger is not broken or ICED.
Approaching O/T, but actually Kettleman City is not the only one. Tesla also has another large supercharger location with a lounge northwest of Zurich, Switzerland, the Dietikon supercharger: Switzerland: Tesla opens charging park with lounge - electrive.com
bradtem
Robocar consultant
My error. But it does seem that Tesla is not building these commonly. Now most superchargers are put in places they could get free land, far back of outlet malls seems to be a common choice, so they don't always have the ability to put in a lounge. It's a good synergy -- Tesla gets real estate to use, the mall gets Tesla owners who have 40 minutes to kill. So maybe they plan to do a lounge any time they need to buy their own land.
As I say above, if you are going to eat at the charger, a room to do it in is a nice thing. But having a few decent restaurants a short walk from the charger does the job. On the other hand, if there is no decent food convenient to the SC, they should definitely have a lounge or at least some picnic tables under an umbrella. (And a windshield cleaning station, air pump and other gas station stuff, but they don't want to maintain that.)
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