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Electrify Canada

5_+JqckQttqck

Active Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,851
1,336
Toronto
VW, BMW, Daimler, Toyota, Goldman Sachs, USB, Moodies, Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, Halliburton, Koch Industries, to name a few.
More generally speaking: The entire automobile industry, the entire fossil fuel industry, most of the financial industry.

It's all good to plan and talk... but until they invest massively as Tesla has to install hundreds of charging stations in a matter of a couple of years world wide, they'll never catch up to the SC network.

We've seen how the last twenty years has gone by without much change from these players. Tesla and China is driving the EV revolution, everyone else is playing catch up.
 

adaptabl

Banned
Mar 13, 2018
776
-619
Canada
It's all good to plan and talk... but until they invest massively as Tesla has to install hundreds of charging stations in a matter of a couple of years world wide, they'll never catch up to the SC network.

We've seen how the last twenty years has gone by without much change from these players. Tesla and China is driving the EV revolution, everyone else is playing catch up.

Once they decide it is economically viable they could leave Tesla in the dust in a very short time.
 

sandpiper

Active Member
Sep 25, 2014
2,833
2,139
Ontario, Canada
It's all good to plan and talk... but until they invest massively as Tesla has to install hundreds of charging stations in a matter of a couple of years world wide, they'll never catch up to the SC network.

We've seen how the last twenty years has gone by without much change from these players. Tesla and China is driving the EV revolution, everyone else is playing catch up.

They will catch up... guaranteed. It will take a few years, but it will happen. There is too much inertia on the other side.

Further:
- Tesla will retrofit their SCs with the dual cable configuration now going into Europe.
- The existing Tesla connectors will be gone on new cars within 3 years, and the cars will ship CCS only.
- I also argue that Tesla will stop building SCs at all within 5 years. They did it to bootstrap vehicle sales but, really, it's not the business that they should be in. I expect that at some point they will sell off the charger network, but it won't happen until there are some stable and well financed charger network operators that could do a good job of it.
 

5_+JqckQttqck

Active Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,851
1,336
Toronto
First to market holds value, brand image = $ and trust. See GM (Greedy Motors) Superbowl ad by Unifor. The amount of money and amazing car GM and the rest of the fossil fuel brands have to spend to rebrand = a ton of car sales needed. Killing the Volt program to focus on trucks will come back to bite them in the a$$ as the Volt is actually a great stepping stone between ICE and BEVs. All it takes is OPEC and Russia to make a deal to reduce output to send oil prices rocketing.

1. They need to match/beat the Model 3 in terms of styling to convert the people who care only about image/looks.
2. They need to match/beat the Model 3 in performance.
3. They need to match/beat the SC network in coverage and charge speed.
4. While they play catchup, Tesla and other EV brands out of China is pushing out next generation of EVs / models. They have to quadruple down $.$ already spend to catch up for the time Tesla already spent building their network and brand.

It took Tesla 15 years to get to where they are. Sure, the traditional car makers do have the scale and capacity to massively catch up quickly. But are the public ready for the flood of EVs and life style change? They've been grooming people to use gasoline and diesel for so long. All the EV buyers are already Tesla buyers.

They would literally have to convert their existing gasoline/diesel customers to their brand of EVs. Everyone else who are buying EVs already have established a brand loyalty to Tesla/Nissan/Toyota/<Insert Chinese Startup>. Byton is the next thing to watch, that SUV is sexy as F.
 

Drone Flyer

Active Member
Feb 22, 2016
1,127
258
Canada
Went to the Montreal Auto Show today, and on Volkswagen’s stand was a superfast charger module hooked onto an E-Golf. It is an Electrify Canada charger. On the back of the charger model were some basic info of a superfast charger and a rollout plan starting in the 2nd quarter of 2019. Included was also a map of 32 Electrify Canada locations coming soon in a very unhelpful map for people who don’t know their Canadian geography (see photo). Anyway, soon were probably going to start seeing some sites going up, so if you do find one, post here.

(P.S. if anyone is going to the car show, the Wi-Fi password in advance is siam2019) :p
View attachment 371762 View attachment 371761 View attachment 371760 View attachment 371759
Any English signage?
 

adaptabl

Banned
Mar 13, 2018
776
-619
Canada
First to market holds value, brand image = $ and trust. See GM (Greedy Motors) Superbowl ad by Unifor. The amount of money and amazing car GM and the rest of the fossil fuel brands have to spend to rebrand = a ton of car sales needed. Killing the Volt program to focus on trucks will come back to bite them in the a$$ as the Volt is actually a great stepping stone between ICE and BEVs. All it takes is OPEC and Russia to make a deal to reduce output to send oil prices rocketing.

1. They need to match/beat the Model 3 in terms of styling to convert the people who care only about image/looks.
2. They need to match/beat the Model 3 in performance.
3. They need to match/beat the SC network in coverage and charge speed.
4. While they play catchup, Tesla and other EV brands out of China is pushing out next generation of EVs / models. They have to quadruple down $.$ already spend to catch up for the time Tesla already spent building their network and brand.

It took Tesla 15 years to get to where they are. Sure, the traditional car makers do have the scale and capacity to massively catch up quickly. But are the public ready for the flood of EVs and life style change? They've been grooming people to use gasoline and diesel for so long. All the EV buyers are already Tesla buyers.

They would literally have to convert their existing gasoline/diesel customers to their brand of EVs. Everyone else who are buying EVs already have established a brand loyalty to Tesla/Nissan/Toyota/<Insert Chinese Startup>. Byton is the next thing to watch, that SUV is sexy as F.

I really think EV's will take a long time to gain large market penetration. I believe the average driver does not think about his/her car enough to be able to manage an EV at this point.
 

Funkmobile

Member
Apr 5, 2018
663
647
Vancouver
I really think EV's will take a long time to gain large market penetration. I believe the average driver does not think about his/her car enough to be able to manage an EV at this point.

My guess based on what I've seen so far, is that it'll take another 10 years before EV's start outselling ICE cars.
 

5_+JqckQttqck

Active Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,851
1,336
Toronto
My guess based on what I've seen so far, is that it'll take another 10 years before EV's start outselling ICE cars.

Supply and price. KIA and Hyundai + Chinese brands will dominate the urban commuter segment at this point since Tesla, Audi, Mercedes, and Jag are targeting the luxury segment.
 

Funkmobile

Member
Apr 5, 2018
663
647
Vancouver
Supply and price. KIA and Hyundai + Chinese brands will dominate the urban commuter segment at this point since Tesla, Audi, Mercedes, and Jag are targeting the luxury segment.
It's not simply supply and price as practicality and convenience are still major hurdles. Sure you can buy one of those China cars that gives you 100KM for $20K but it's neither practical or convenient to use given the current charging infrastructure and technology. Average Joe is not going to change their life to revolve around a car nor do they have the funds to own a house and/or have their own charging station at home. EV adoption will keep on rising as more options become available, but it will not dominate the market for a long time unless something drastic comes into play.
 

adaptabl

Banned
Mar 13, 2018
776
-619
Canada
It's not simply supply and price as practicality and convenience are still major hurdles. Sure you can buy one of those China cars that gives you 100KM for $20K but it's neither practical or convenient to use given the current charging infrastructure and technology. Average Joe is not going to change their life to revolve around a car nor do they have the funds to own a house and/or have their own charging station at home. EV adoption will keep on rising as more options become available, but it will not dominate the market for a long time unless something drastic comes into play.

Without home charging an EV is not a good choice for anyone. The advantage of EV's is charging at night when there is surplus electricity. Charging during the day results in the need to build new generating stations and should be discouraged (Maybe thru much higher prices).
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,404
7,530
Maine
I really think VW/Audi will be the major EV players in all segments within 10 years.

I agree.

I won't ever buy one because I don't want to think "Dieselgate scum" every time I'm around my car, but consumers in general don't care.

VW has helped destroy the diesel passenger car market. In Europe, again down in 2018Q4, by 23.6% yoy, and in western European economies, it's only in Germany that the decline shows any sign of stopping. European plug-in sales are constrained by supply, and I can only see demand increasing.

VW had to do something else, and unlike other companies in other countries it doesn't have its shareholders or its government trying to get in the way of going plug-in.
 
Last edited:

5_+JqckQttqck

Active Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,851
1,336
Toronto
VW had to do something else, and unlike other companies in other countries it doesn't have shareholders or its government trying to get in the way of going plug-in.

I agree, the DACH region alone is worth billions in car sales. They have similar climate as Canada and steel cars get chewed up in a five to ten year cycle. VW leading the way in their strong holds makes sense. EU is way more progressive and society centric (to a certain degree). They're much more environmentally conscious than North Americans since their educational institutions actually teach morality, ethics, and civil responsibility starting at a young age.

EV Beetle is one to watch.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,404
7,530
Maine
I agree, the DACH region alone is worth billions in car sales. They have similar climate as Canada and steel cars get chewed up in a five to ten year cycle. VW leading the way in their strong holds makes sense. EU is way more progressive and society centric (to a certain degree). They're much more environmentally conscious than North Americans since their educational institutions actually teach morality, ethics, and civil responsibility starting at a young age.

EV Beetle is one to watch.

It not so much environmentalism. There's more of a collectivist attitude, I think, but the most important driver is that high fuel taxes improve the EV economics.
 

Webeevdrivers

Active Member
Jan 2, 2017
2,248
3,956
Canada
I feel sorry for them. They can’t travel out of that place because of their lack of English!

Too funny. We travel all over the world and have no problem even though I only speak a few languages. Why would someone’s lack of English prevent them from travelling somewhere.

I speak fluent Spanish, English, French, German and can manage at a very basic level in Arabic. (Meaning I really suck at Arabic). If my lack of ability to speak any of these languages had impeded my ability to travel to countries where they speak these languages, I would never have learned these languages.

Just sayin.
 

shellderp

Member
Sep 15, 2018
171
164
Ontario
Check out this thread The Government of Canada just announced funding for 900 Level 3 CCS/CHAdeMO chargers. With the lack of Tesla chargers here, we REALLY need an adapter as soon as possible for the Model 3! : teslamotors
>Electric Vehicle Fast Chargers: Projects must be Direct Current Fast Charge (Level 3) and use at least four-hundred and eighty (480) volt, three (3) phase power input with at least one (1) charge connector that is CHAdeMO compliant and one (1) charge connector that is SAECombo (CSS) compliant.

It's not just that car makers will install CCS chargers, it's every government and private entity that will be installing it. When EVs are the mainstream there will be far more CCS chargers than Tesla chargers, and Tesla definitely understands they will suffer if they don't support it
 

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