Elon Confirms S & X Are Chopped Liver

[john85775]

A ground up redesign would mean large R&D / capital expenditure investment preceding such an action.

No such expenditures are being made by Tesla; the R&D capex is very modest as they hoard cash.

 

[tomas]

Imo it will not be just some facelift or new interior. It will have to be an entirely new model. There have been so many new technologies developed, especially in the manufacturability perspective, since the first Model S was designed almost a decade ago. Tesla likely will do it eventually, it's still a very desirable market segment to be in, but doing that will require a lot ot resources and Tesla wants to put them into other models with more mass appeal first. A curve ball is there is also a small possibility it will just kill off the model and replace it with an entirely new flagship model that fits more with the future FSD implementation. Tesla is always forward thinking. "Refreshing" is so traditional.

I suspect they would still call any replacement S to keep S3XY unless Elon grows up which is thank god unlikely

 

[jboy210]

Yes, but I ordered my last ludicrous exactly three years ago, and it only took ten days to get it. So its not a quarterly thing. I got the impression that fools like me who pay 10 or 20 thousand dollars for a software switch were moved up in the queue to maximize their cash flow. Besides, when I placed my order this time they estimated delivery in less than two weeks. Its been that long and they have not even started production. They don't write; they don't call; they don't send flowers.

First, Tesla does not operate today as they did 3 years ago in the pre-M3 days. Second, Your communication is pretty much how it was for me in mid 2018. Put in order in Feb, did not see or hear anything until late April when the car went into production and I happened to be checking my order online. All sales staff at SC where I test drove car was fired in the interim, so no one to call. Next email I got was from finance people about 3 weeks before the car was delivered with date and financing instructions.

Showed up on delivery day and was the only Model X in my time slot. 2 Model S and 18 Model 3s being delivered at the same time slot (1 hr window). Very quickly sign this, here is your car, see ya!

 

[kwag]

I would have to disagree. Model S is a completely different market than the model 3 or Y or X or roadster. That is like telling BMW M5 drivers that what they want is a 330i, an X5 or an i8. No, they want a fast luxurious sedan. Not a dinky racecar with no comforts, not a middle class 330i, and not a soccer mom heavy X5, but a beautifully luxurious and comfortable sedan that says, I can turn heads at a 5 star restaurant, but also go faster than a lambo and still drive nimbly on the mountain curves.

 

[Guy V]

Roadster 2.0 is a "prestige" model - that won't have a bottom-line impact on profitability. It's only a demonstration of the potential for EV performance, and likely has a relatively small team designing and building a limited number of those vehicles.

To survive, Tesla must achieve sustainable profitability - and that's going to come from the higher volume 3/Y/pickup models - plus the higher margin semi trucks.

At least for now, from a business perspective, major investments in S/X would be a net negative, because they are decreasingly smaller portion of the overall revenue stream, as Musk continues with the Master Plan of shifting to much higher volume vehicles.

That doesn't mean we won't see changes in S/X. We're likely to see some interior improvements as they streamline manufacturing and shift to using more common components (especially between S/X). And when FSD is within reach, would expect to see some additional interior changes as the focus shifts away from the driver to driverless vehicles and entertaining the passengers.

S/X still have value in Tesla's overall product line - just not a priority for any major changes right now that wouldn't help in achieving Tesla's profitability goals...

And as an owner of a 2017 S and 2018 X, we're fine with that. Even though the 3 (and Y) have some advantages (such as V3 supercharging) not present in S/X today, if we were going to purchase another vehicle today - we'd probably still buy an S/X because we prefer the larger capacity of those vehicles...

The focus now has to be on getting out the new high-volume Y and Pickup. Going forward however it is more likely any major changes would be to S, and then X because it would be very risky and expensive to do that any time soon on the lines churning out hundreds of thousands of 3, Y and Pickups. Doing something on the S and X though would show that Tesla is not stagnating.

 

[wooter]

Except, how realistic is it that a new Model X would keep its falcon wing doors? I'm already disappointed they are not on the Model Y, but I understand this from a cost and complicity perspective.

 

[jerry33]

The focus now has to be on getting out the new high-volume Y and Pickup. Going forward however it is more likely any major changes would be to S, and then X because it would be very risky and expensive to do that any time soon on the lines churning out hundreds of thousands of 3, Y and Pickups. Doing something on the S and X though would show that Tesla is not stagnating.

I don't expect anything major until Maxwell technology is in production. Because they'll have to redesign the battery pack, they'll likely have to a refresh of body style to accommodate it. But I strongly disagree with the "chopped liver" of the title because they will still be important, just not as big a percentage of total sales as they are today. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

 

[cbutters]

Tesla: [Develops amazing cars with a body style that is critically acclaimed and considered by many to be the most functional, beautiful and desirable car ever. Model X Design only really comes out in 2016 and is only 3 years old.]
Tesla: [Continually and systematically improves the design of the cars inside and out and increases battery pack sizes, internal creature comforts, materials and technology.]
Tesla: [We've just refreshed the powertrain with the Raven Refresh; implementing the new model 3 motor technology and increasing range and efficiency by over 10% adding an extra 25-35 miles with the same battery kWh sizes; oh yeah it supercharges faster too. Oh yeah also; there is now new suspension design with technology built in.]

*One Month Later*

This Thread: "Why don't you guys redesign S & X? I can't believe it doesn't get any love; Where's my refresh? You are having us out to dry."

 

[ohmman]

Except, how realistic is it that a new Model X would keep its falcon wing doors? I'm already disappointed they are not on the Model Y, but I understand this from a cost and complicity perspective.

As a Model X owner with falcon wing doors, nothing would make me upgrade more quickly than a Model X without the doors. But I really don't see them ditching them as they're relatively iconic.

 

[RDoc]

Elon's addressed that a few times. They aren't building the Roadster 2.0 to make money. They're building it so that the world's quickest production car is electric and blows every ICE contender out of the water.

Exactly, another error like Falcon Wing Doors and buying Solar City.

 

[Asterix187]

Stick a new dash design with the M3 slot air vent and general styling, put some new front/rear light config in and people will be happy.

 

[Asterix187]

I like the overall design. Though I wish it was more the mission E. Only thing I hate about the Taycan is the ginormous head/taillights. Why??!
There’s no mistaking that coming or leaving.

You do realise they are stickers don’t you?

 

[cbutters]

As a Model X owner with falcon wing doors, nothing would make me upgrade more quickly than a Model X without the doors. But I really don't see them ditching them as they're relatively iconic.

I get different strokes for different folks; but The falcon wing doors on Model X was one of the major reasons I got the car in 2017. Been loving them especially since we have kids in car seats. I guess objectively there were some teething pains at the beginning with the paint rubbing around the door sill; but that's been resolved with the door bumper redesign at this point. The biggest downside is the attention they draw when you open them! I don't mind explaining usually; but sometimes you just want to fly under the radar. Other than that; no issues with them. I wouldn't want to give them up (unless there is a good sliding door design perhaps? Thats the only way they might be better as they can get slightly in the way when opening; a sliding design might work better?.)

Anyways, just curious how the doors aren't working out for you.

 

[CarlK]

I had a bad dream last night. They took falcon wing doors away from my model X and it just became an ordinary SUV.

Sliding doors would be functional but most SUV people wouldn't be seen dead in one with those.

 

[tomas]

Stick a new dash design with the M3 slot air vent and general styling, put some new front/rear light config in and people will be happy.

No, the same people would hate that and consider it non luxurious and non competitive. There’s a crowd that wants 99% feature parity with the total of Audi, MB, BMW, Jag plus “plush” style alternative. Even with next generation S -if there is one- that’s not what Tesla would do so that group would be unhappy with it.

Which is fine. Lots of cars for everyone, and more of them EV every year.

 

[tomas]

I had a bad dream last night. They took falcon wing doors away from my model X and it just became an ordinary SUV.

Crap, is that why I woke up and found them on my S???

 

[pete8314]

I had a bad dream last night. They took falcon wing doors away from my model X and it just became an ordinary SUV.

That'll be the Model Y

General aesthetics aside, the only advantage a Model S has over Model 3 is the storage space. When Y comes along, that advantage is lost. Tesla already know that Y will eat into 3 sales, trunks/boots are not desired, and in many countries having a trunk/boot instead of the hatch version will cause greater depreciation. The problem is, if S is not elevated with some sort of tangible refresh (tangible meaning something that a non-Tesla owner would be able to see), then I'm struggling to see any reason not to buy a Performance Y over an S, assuming Audi, Porsche et al haven't upped their game by then.

 

[Saghost]

That'll be the Model Y

General aesthetics aside, the only advantage a Model S has over Model 3 is the storage space. When Y comes along, that advantage is lost. Tesla already know that Y will eat into 3 sales, trunks/boots are not desired, and in many countries having a trunk/boot instead of the hatch version will cause greater depreciation. The problem is, if S is not elevated with some sort of tangible refresh (tangible meaning something that a non-Tesla owner would be able to see), then I'm struggling to see any reason not to buy a Performance Y over an S, assuming Audi, Porsche et al haven't upped their game by then.

Quicker and faster. More information provided in more detail by multiple configurable screen zones. Bioweapon Defense. Fancy new adaptive air suspension.

 

[ohmman]

Anyways, just curious how the doors aren't working out for you.

Not to get too far off topic, but I always drive the X with passengers. The doors don't open fully in many locations, including my garage, so there is a negotiation with me getting out of the driver's door (or passenger door) and the operation of the falcon wing door behind me. Even in fully open parking lots, there's still a negotiation to be performed. In a standard door, the hinge is directly behind the opening of the front doors, so this situation doesn't exist. I find it awkward, as does every passenger I've ever driven. And I know a good number of people "in real life" who own the Model X and dislike the doors as much as I do. I don't know anyone except for people at TMC/online who love them. We all see some benefits (cleaning and vacuuming is much easier, for instance) but the operational drawbacks outweigh them.

I had a bad dream last night. They took falcon wing doors away from my model X and it just became an ordinary SUV.

Fascinating. I was unaware that the EV drivetrain, battery, large windshield, MCU, software, autopilot, and all other features were housed inside of the falcon wing doors. What an educational argument!

 

[byeLT4]

That'll be the Model Y

General aesthetics aside, the only advantage a Model S has over Model 3 is the storage space......... then I'm struggling to see any reason not to buy a Performance Y over an S.

Range is king. Base S will be nearly as fast (.2 seconds) to 60, probably faster beyond and have almost 100 miles more range. A Y might fit your needs but not everyone's.