That was NOT my word. I was just quoting Bouba, hence the quotation marks. I'm assuming they meant any accidents it is cited at fault. If not then I qualify my statement to read.
Insurance to cover any at fault accidents.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Elon: FSD Beta tweets
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
Insurance to cover any at fault accidents.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Same thing. How can a driverless vehicle be at fault unless there is a design defect?
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
There are billions of possible situations that can NOT be accounted for or anticipated. Accidents WILL always happen even in a L5 cars. L5 is not and never will be about perfect driving and never have an accident on the roads we have. They will just be reduced to a low level.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Hate to bring up the SAE J3016 here but L4/L5 vehicles are the required to detect dirty camera lenses and achieve minimal risk condition (pull over to a safe spot). A driverless vehicle that can't detect system failures seems very unsafe...
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Of course, but any accident where the vehicle is at fault is a design defect and therefore the manufacturer should be liable.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
and what does it do if it gets splashed with a pile of slush from a passing semi and crashes before it can pull over? Standards are fine until they're confronted with life.
That is incorrect. You are in your L4 or 5 car driving down the road and your car hits a patch of oil in the road that is not visible or obvious. Your car slides and crosses the yellow line and sideswipes another car. Your car will be at fault but it is NOT a design flaw or something that could have been avoided. It is an accident.
Agian there are an infinite number of situations that can happen.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Currently deployed L4 vehicles have sensor redundancy and of course the ability to clean all the cameras.
Obviously there are acts of god for which no one would be liable, like getting hit by a meteor.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
The person who put the oil on the road would be liable. Though I admit I don't know how it would work since it's very unlikely you would find the person responsible.
Regardless if you look at the collisions that actually occur in self-driving cars (from CA AV accident reports) I've never seen one involving road debris. Internet says that road debris only causes 2% of collisions.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You won’t care if Honda Legend kills your kids as long as Honda takes liability ?
Failure rates distinguish “fully” autonomous and ADAS cars.
It's not going to be the same insurance.
The insurance companies have already gotten ahead of this by adding disclaimers to insurance saying it won't cover any autonomous driving.
So when a car is in full autonomous mode the individuals insurance won't cover the accident, and it will be up to the manufacture to cover it. Tesla will likely simplify this though Tesla insurance so it will be transparent to vehicle owners. The actual riders won't even think of the insurance aspect, and if they get injured they'll expect the fleet company (like Tesla) to cover them.
As to how expensive insurance will be for autonomous vehicles is anyone's guess. It's problematic because there are so few vehicles (in relation), and a high likelihood of some very expensive accidents due the idea that autonomous vehicles can somehow prevent all accidents.
While I could see a time when L4 or L5 automobile manufacturers might assume liability for the car's actions, I can't help but think that the car has no idea who is footing that bill and will behave exactly the same regardless.
So, let's say that Company T manages to build a wonderful L5 vehicle and assumes liability. A few years later, Company T goes belly up, is liquidated and nobody assumes their liabilities. If the car is still perfectly functional, do you no longer consider it autonomous?
My belief is no regular private individual will be able to own an autonomous vehicle.
Partly because its an ongoing cost to continually be able to upgrade the SW/HW to the latest standards, and there will be a fairly constant stream of bugs and optimizations that needs to happen. It's also because of the liability, and that will be a reoccurring expenditure.
I also think L5 is a fantasy so this means the only realistic autonomous cars will be L4, and L4 vehicles due to their nature will need to be part of some kind of fleet. Like Tesla will have the Tesla fleet, and that will take care of things like insurance and things like determining when its safe for a drive to be done. They'll be staffed to deal with issues that happen while riders are in the vehicle who aren't owners.
I'm sure bankruptcies will happen with fleet companies, and other companies will purchase the assets.
That is NOW because of the unknowns and insurances companies don't like unknowns. In the future when L4 is proven and becomes a known it WILL be insured because it is simple math and dollars. Accident rates will drop precipitously and so will insurance payouts for accidents. This means MORE profit (since they don't have to pay out very much) for the companies and a SUPER FAT bottom line. They will be all over themselves to offer L4 insurance at a discount rate and will make a HUGE killing. This is one of the main reason Tesla is getting into the insurance business now. There is going to be tremendous profits for the insurance companies when L4 becomes common.
EDIT Here is some info from the site policyadvice.net:
Self-Driving Car Insurance — Future Estimates
Since the overall number of accidents will likely decrease with the introduction of self-driving cars, it makes no sense for premiums to be kept at today’s levels. Yes, crashes will still occur, but their number will drop significantly over the next few decades. At this time, the automobile insurance market has premiums valued at roughly $225 billion — these numbers are expected to drop by $41 billion by 2050.
Already, studies showcase that vehicles featuring semi-autonomous driving features are less likely to be involved in car accidents. In this case, we are talking about level 2 and level 3 vehicles, which are significantly safer when compared to cars that do not feature computerized assistance systems. However, autonomous cars’ insurance rates haven’t dropped yet; not a whole lot of pressure has been placed on the traditional insurance industry thus far.
Last edited:
It's possible that the opposite might occur. The overall amount spent on accidents will be less, resulting in lower overall premiums. With lower premiums, margin % must go up to result in the same overall profit. It is difficult to defend a large margin % from competition, especially in a very competetive market like insurance.
The future is fairly uncertain BUT car Insurance companies insure cars and will continue to offer policies to insure cars. They are not going to all go bankrupt because they (car insurance companies) refuse to insure cars. That is not a possibility.
Does anyone believe that Tesla (surprised if we don't have FSD by year's end) is getting into the car insurance just in time for it to go bankrupt? Do you think Tesla believes insurance profits are going down? That must be confident that there is a high profit in the future or they would not be putting all the effort and resources into making a world wide car insurance company.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
you can bet that the insurance companies will be watching and analyzing closely. They're in the business of statistical analysis and using that analysis to make money. If and when we reach a point where self driving cars are safer they'll adjust accordingly. The main issue will be whether you are using FSD or manual driving. If they offer a discount for autonomous driving they'll also have a way of verifying it in the event of an accident.
I believe Tesla is getting involved in insurance because they know claims are a going to be a complete mess with the transition between semi-autonomous and autonomous.
Having Tesla insurances makes it clean and easy as it won't matter what mode of operation it is in.
Tesla insurance also allows Tesla to charge a monthly fee to FSD owners. They absolutely will pass the liability cost onto us.
Similar threads
