Elon: FSD Beta tweets

[Dan D.]

compared to a competently and carefully driven manual vehicle."

Interesting and helpful explanation. A "competently and carefully driven manual vehicle", of course, does not unreasonably take incorrect lanes or commit any of the issues listed in the recall. So by that definition the changes to the recall would have to be pretty darn good.

I doubt that Tesla and the NHTSA are going to state any firm numbers at all, they will just say the recall has been satisfied with no real proof.

My question remains: since they said in the new release notes that they are making changes to the recall issues, does that mean the recall is over? If you read the release notes on the car for new software and it says "In accordance with a recent recall... Tesla is making changes to the following specific behaviors within FSD Beta", isn't it implied that the changes ARE in the release? Otherwise why say it. These are not future release notes.

How do we know for sure? The Tesla website implies nothing about fixing the recall, the Tesla FSD release notes imply the software has been changed for the recall, and Motortrend, Cleantechnica, Autoblog, Teslarati all state that the recall has been addressed. "Further improving safety, Tesla has issued two new features. The first, which addresses a recall of the Tesla FSD software, vastly enhances the vehicle’s actions"

Has it?

 

[swedge]

Interesting and helpful explanation. A "competently and carefully driven manual vehicle", of course, does not unreasonably take incorrect lanes or commit any of the issues listed in the recall. So by that definition the changes to the recall would have to be pretty darn good.

I doubt that Tesla and the NHTSA are going to state any firm numbers at all, they will just say the recall has been satisfied with no real proof.

My question remains: since they said in the new release notes that they are making changes to the recall issues, does that mean the recall is over? If you read the release notes on the car for new software and it says they are "making changes", isn't it implied that the changes ARE in the release? Otherwise why say it. These are not future release notes.

How do we know for sure? The Tesla website implies nothing about fixing the recall, the Tesla FSD release notes imply the software has been changed for the recall, and Motortrend, Cleantechnica, Autoblog, Teslarati all state that the recall has been addressed. "Further improving safety, Tesla has issued two new features. The first, which addresses a recall of the Tesla FSD software, vastly enhances the vehicle’s actions"

Has it?

You left of the phrase describing what is to be compared which is "over level of risk...":

Unreasonable risk means the overall level of risk for the driver, vehicle occupants and other road users which is increased...

Overall risk is typically measured as accidents and fatalities per mile driven. Since accidents are pretty rare, it takes a lot of miles driven to prove the point. But you may recall that about the same time as the recall was announced, Tesla published the claim that FSD beta, the version that was recalled, already had considerably fewer incidents per mile than the national average, based on was it over 100 million miles of FSD? If this is true and accurate, then the recall was not justified under the definition you and I cited. All along, I thought it was just saber rattling, meant to push Tesla to prioritize addressing those egregious FSD mistakes, and lso to signal to the O'Dowds of the world that the feds are paying attention and doing "something". In my view, what they did was slow down the improvement of the demonstrably already superior safety of using FSD, albeit when supervised by a human.

 

[Dan D.]

You left of the phrase describing what is to be compared which is "over level of risk...":

Overall risk is typically measured as accidents and fatalities per mile driven. Since accidents are pretty rare, it takes a lot of miles driven to prove the point. But you may recall that about the same time as the recall was announced, Tesla published the claim that FSD beta, the version that was recalled, already had considerably fewer incidents per mile than the national average, based on was it over 100 million miles of FSD? If this is true and accurate, then the recall was not justified under the definition you and I cited. All along, I thought it was just saber rattling, meant to push Tesla to prioritize addressing those egregious FSD mistakes, and lso to signal to the O'Dowds of the world that the feds are paying attention and doing "something". In my view, what they did was slow down the improvement of the demonstrably already superior safety of using FSD, albeit when supervised by a human.

Yeah, I have no argument about the validity of the FSD recall. Tesla and the NHTSA must have some data that they don't bother to release publicly so I can't really make any decision based on nothing other than random YouTube videos, some NHTSA user-submitted complaints, and the odd media report. I have to hope that Tesla and the NHTSA are basing all of this off some real data of their own.

I'm just trying to figure out if the recall is over or not. Tesla implies yes (per release notes) and no (per website), and the media variously says yes and no. No new users appear to have been added recently, but "appear" is not proof either.

 

[tdiggity]

Not fsd related but we can all get a laugh out of this tweet:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1636835209587949570

Classic Elon! Mar 31, what year??

The rest of the world outside of tesla fans is going to learn about Elon time! Very exciting.

Son of a…He/Twitter delivered on this deadline.

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[DanCar]

I mean my car still runs red lights on 11.3.3 so clearly not fixed for some definition of the word.

Video please.

 

[Knightshade]

Son of a…He/Twitter delivered on this deadline.

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Well, he didn't of course...

They released "most" of the recommendation code, not all of it as promised. Rest in coming is "weeks" (presumably two of them )

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642085053504028673

Video please.

No video of it but mine did the same on same version. Stopped at a right light in a lane that could go both straight or turn right. A green turn arrow showed on the otherwise red light and my car tried going straight forward to follow route and had to manually hit brakes to stop it driving into live traffic. First time it ever failed a red at a "normal" type intersection.

 

[jeremymc7]

Has Tesla said if the FSD recall has been satisfied and new installs are happening? I know they said in the release notes that it addresses the recall issues, but does that mean it accomplished the fix? How can we be sure?

If you go through the release notes on one of the recent beta releases, and there’s quite a few, I saw it was mentioned last night.

 

[clydeiii]

Video please.

It’s very reproducible, been trying to run this set of lights on Beta for as long as I’ve lived here. I’ll try to capture it in the next few days.

 

[jeremymc7]

Video please.

It’s not supposed to not

Well, he didn't of course...

They released "most" of the recommendation code, not all of it as promised. Rest in coming is "weeks" (presumably two of them )

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642085053504028673

No video of it but mine did the same on same version. Stopped at a right light in a lane that could go both straight or turn right. A green turn arrow showed on the otherwise red light and my car tried going straight forward to follow route and had to manually hit brakes to stop it driving into live traffic. First time it ever failed a red at a "normal" type intersection.

Same here. I’ve posted it times. It doesn’t seem to know which lane it’s in and seems to this be tracking the wrong light.

This is quite common, predicable and reproducible at these specific intersections.

 

[Supcom]

Has Tesla said if the FSD recall has been satisfied and new installs are happening? I know they said in the release notes that it addresses the recall issues, but does that mean it accomplished the fix? How can we be sure?

Go to Recalls | NHTSA and enter your VIN. Any unsatisfied recalls will appear.

I don't know how long it takes to be updated after a correction.

 

[willow_hiller]

Good sign that Tesla thinks 11.3.4 fulfills the recall requirements, if they're pushing it over LTE:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642331238978695169

 

[willow_hiller]

Go to Recalls | NHTSA and enter your VIN. Any unsatisfied recalls will appear.

I don't know how long it takes to be updated after a correction.

Too late to edit my last post, but receiving v11.3.4 officially removed this recall from my VIN on Tesla's recall search: Tesla Service

The FSD recall was there prior to the update, and now it's gone.

 

[thewishmaster]

Too late to edit my last post, but receiving v11.3.4 officially removed this recall from my VIN on Tesla's recall search: Tesla Service

The FSD recall was there prior to the update, and now it's gone.

For what it’s worth mine still shows this recall, plus two other software related ones from 2022 which have been completed already.

 

[willow_hiller]

For what it’s worth mine still shows this recall, plus two other software related ones from 2022 which have been completed already.

Are you on v11.3.4? Or V11.3.3?

 

[thewishmaster]

Are you on v11.3.4? Or V11.3.3?

11.3.4 installed earlier, coming from 10.69.whatever

 

[clydeiii]

Video please.

I think what confuses it about this intersection is that there are green lights at an angle, which I assume it thinks are controlling the flow of the road it's on. It definitely recognizes that there's a red light (unfortunately I was choosing to focus on the lights not the screen but it clearly reads "stopping for red light") and then after it stops it just tries to go through the intersection.

 

[swedge]

I think what confuses it about this intersection is that there are green lights at an angle, which I assume it thinks are controlling the flow of the road it's on. It definitely recognizes that there's a red light (unfortunately I was choosing to focus on the lights not the screen but it clearly reads "stopping for red light") and then after it stops it just tries to go through the intersection.

Nice video! Scary move on FSD's part, and a quick intervention on your part.

We have a similar problem spot, except in ours the car stops in the middle of the intersection because it sees the red light for the cross street. Of course it is red, it is for the cross street and our light is green, not too hard to figure out. (Allen still hasn't loaned me a gopro, so no video, sorry. )

It is a strange intersection, with one leg offset and at a strange angle, see below. Our car comes in where the blue arrow points, follows the blue path and stops hard at the blue line. This is due to the signal in the red circle, which is for the crossing traffic which waits at the limit line circled in green. If there is a car ahead, FSD follows without stopping.

This is not really surprising, but all the features are clearly visible, and we human drivers understand it easily as a single, large and odd intersection. Once we go on our green, we know to ignore the cross street's red. FSD, however, gets confused and perhaps treats it as if it is two intersections or some such. And where it stops does not really make sense.

Heaven knows how Tesla is going to fix this for Robotaxi, short of a notation in the map data. For me it is just a place where I have to be ready to give a brief accelerator tap. I will do a full disengage there a few times so I can report that V11 still has this problem.

 

[willow_hiller]

Y'all are sleeping on the job of finding Elon's FSD Beta Tweets:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643144343254110209

 

[JupiterMan]

Y'all are sleeping on the job of finding Elon's FSD Beta Tweets:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643144343254110209

seems quicker progress is being made than the anecdotal evidence suggests on these pages,

 

[diplomat33]

Y'all are sleeping on the job of finding Elon's FSD Beta Tweets:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643144343254110209

You got to love Elon's optimism. He makes it sound like FSD is almost ready for driverless. So when can we expect Tesla to remove all driver supervision? Two weeks? LOL.

It sounds like Elon is only worried about serious crashes but I think safety is more than just not crashing where someone is hospitalized or killed. You also want to reduce minor and moderate crashes too. And you also want to reduce "bad driving" even if it does not cause a crash. AVs need to be good citizens of the road.

And I wish Elon would tell us what the current safety-critical intervention rate is so that we could measure how close Tesla is to removing driver supervision. He never gives quantifiable data, he just says "we are very close".