Elon: Model X Q2 Production 1,000 per week

[CTemp222]

Also, the first time someone posted their list of numerous issues with their new X, they were encouraged to keep it to themselves so that they wouldn't influence other people or affect the brand. To me it seems some of those people are being hypocrites and are really long the stock and are scared of someone being honest in a negative way so the company doesn't look bad. I for one enjoy reading all the positives and all the negatives as long as they are true and legit. In my mind, that is what this forum should be.

Which thread was this?
And I think a lot of people may seem overly protective of Tesla because for years people have tried to deface the company (like when the NYT reviewer John Broder rain out of power [seemingly on purpose]) Tesla gets NYT apology for Model S review: Musk approves - SlashGear .Or when that Tesla on fire went viral and whenever we tried to talk to regular people about Tesla they always brought that up. Or when Fisker stole design information from Tesla Tesla Sues Fisker Designers In Worlds Most Expensive Girl Fight .
People are protective of things they love, this is a unique company and when people are purposely trying to damage Tesla's reputation, we supporters of Tesla and the electric revolution have to defend this unique company.

 

[AlMc]

Which thread was this?
And I think a lot of people may seem overly protective of Tesla because for years people have tried to deface the company (like when the NYT reviewer John Broder rain out of power [seemingly on purpose] http://www.slashgear.com/tesla-gets-nyt-apology-for-model-s-review-musk-approves-18269784/ ). Or when that Tesla on fire went viral and whenever we tried to talk to regular people about Tesla they always brought that up. Or when Fisker stole design information from Tesla Tesla Sues Fisker Designers In Worlds Most Expensive Girl Fight .
People are protective of things they love, this is a unique company and when people are purposely trying to damage Tesla's reputation, we supporters of Tesla and the electric revolution have to defend this unique company.

Protecting the brand and embracing the mission statement are one thing. However, some people attack the messenger instead of refuting the message. This has happened to many people on this and the TM forum (and I am sure on many other forums). Problem: Some of these people have value to add to a discussion and are drowned out/*shouted down*.

 

[CTemp222]

How many years does a company have to be in business to be considered out of the 'start up' category?

Good question, I would say as long as it's in the growth phase. Tesla definitely will not be called a startup when they start giving out dividends.

 

[ModelXBoy]

How many years does a company have to be in business to be considered out of the 'start up' category?

Well, if you look a Toyota, GM etc, those companies existed half century ago. On top of that non of them are creating something innovative for years. I think Tesla just turned 10 years and they not even having a product refresh yet. On top of that, Tesla is building such a complicated car and has absolutely no experience in doing so. There will be flaws, there will be delays, and there will be complaints. This is just how start up company works, they run, hit a wall and turn around and run again with a big ass bandage on their head. Once Tesla nailed out the kinks and speed up their production, customers will be happy again. I am no way defending Tesla, just stating the facts. Their customer service is one of the best i have experience, but the information provided is the most useless information also.

 

[AlMc]

Good question, I would say as long as it's in the growth phase. Tesla definitely will not be called a startup when they start giving out dividends.

So. Is Amazon a 'start up'?

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Well, if you look a Toyota, GM etc, those companies existed half century ago. On top of that non of them are creating something innovative for years. I think Tesla just turned 10 years and they not even having a product refresh yet. On top of that, Tesla is building such a complicated car and has absolutely no experience in doing so. There will be flaws, there will be delays, and there will be complaints. This is just how start up company works, they run, hit a wall and turn around and run again with a big ass bandage on their head. Once Tesla nailed out the kinks and speed up their production, customers will be happy again. I am no way defending Tesla, just stating the facts. Their customer service is one of the best i have experience, but the information provided is the most useless information also.

OK. So in 10 more years? 50 years? Model3 out?

 

[CarlK]

1. No, that is NOT the definition of a short. Please stop making things up. Some short positions are highly leveraged, some don't.
2. As for no real investors by short expiration options, I guess with that definition, Warren Buffet is not a "real investor".


[/FONT][/COLOR]

A lot of misstatement from you. It's probably more complecated than you could comprehend.

Short by nature is highly leveraged even if you put a stop for an increased chance of loss (you proabably wouldn't understand that either). You sell shares you borrowed but not owned. In theory you could own 0 share and sell as many shares as you want for an infinite leverage.

Buffet used the put option as a stock acquisition tool but not to gamble. He was all set to acquire Coca Cola shares if it dropped to $35. The option action is equivalent to put a buy order at $35 and in addition he will earn the $1.5 premium no matter if the price is reached or not. A very smart investment strategy often practiced by investors. The other similarly risk free tool is to write covered calls when you intend to sell the stock at a certain (higher) price.

http://www.travismorien.com/FAQ/options/wboption.htm

 

[CTemp222]

Protecting the brand and embracing the mission statement are one thing. However, some people attack the messenger instead of refuting the message. This has happened to many people on this and the TM forum (and I am sure on many other forums). Problem: Some of these people have value to add to a discussion and are drowned out/*shouted down*.

Yes this is more of a problem that prevails the entire internet It is much more appealing to tell the person to shut up or something of that nature because it's just a lot easier.
Trying to reason with people takes a lot of patience on the internet, something that comes in short supply.

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So. Is Amazon a 'start up'?

According to Forbes yes
http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2014/10/24/amazon-is-a-publicly-traded-startup-get-over-it/#5eb26162746c

 

[ModelXBoy]

OK. So in 10 more years? 50 years? Model3 out?

Totally understand your frustration. I am in the same boat. Calling Tesla and DS everyday hoping to find out some useful information. Disappointed with their answer each time. This forum is what kept me patient. Tesla needs better communication, better their logistics, better their suppliers and hire someone like "Tim Cook" to Steven Job to handle their manufacturing and supply chain. Take some pressure of Elon as well. Tesla will be much better. I really don't think Tesla can be GM or Toyota anytime in the future, but their innovations will keep Tesla very desirable.

 

[AlMc]

So. Is Amazon a 'start up'?

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OK. So in 10 more years? 50 years? Model3 out?

So, I was intrigued by my own question about 'what is a start up' and looked to the internet for help. Seems everyone agrees that there is no universally accepted definition.

The reason I ask is that people usually use that term to give TM/EM a pass on some of the missed timelines or problems with ramping/production. I am just curious as to how long we should give TM/EM a pass?

 

[CTemp222]

So, I was intrigued by my own question about 'what is a start up' and looked to the internet for help. Seems everyone agrees that there is no universally accepted definition.

The reason I ask is that people usually use that as to give TM/EM a pass on some of the missed timelines. I am just curious as to how long we should give TM/EM a pass?

I would say we shouldn't just let him get away with missed timelines without some repercussions, but we should definitely give him the benefit of the doubt. We should keep giving him the benefit of the doubt until negative connotations about electric cars are no more, this will require GM, Toyota, and other large car manufacturers to mass produce electric cars. Remember Elon is swimming against the flow.

 

[ohmman]

According to Forbes yes

Calling Tesla a startup was a way to excuse missteps. Obviously nobody would accept that from Amazon. I think AlMc's point was that using the "startup" moniker is not a great excuse at this point - and I fully agree. It is repeated frequently around here.

There is rarely a good "dismiss it" excuse for a 10-year old company to make the kind of communication and timeframe errors that Tesla has made. We can celebrate the amazing achievements of the company while providing valid criticism on their weaknesses. Ignoring one because of the other makes little sense to me.

 

[CTemp222]

Calling Tesla a startup was a way to excuse missteps. Obviously nobody would accept that from Amazon. I think AlMc's point was that using the "startup" moniker is not a great excuse at this point - and I fully agree. It is repeated frequently around here.

There is rarely a good "dismiss it" excuse for a 10-year old company to make the kind of communication and timeframe errors that Tesla has made. We can celebrate the amazing achievements of the company while providing valid criticism on their weaknesses. Ignoring one because of the other makes little sense to me.

Well I think that Tesla's excuse isn't because they're a startup, but because they're going against the norm, there is a lot of public educating to do and there is obviously push back from entrenched interests.

 

[dc_h]

This start up conversation is a great discussion. Tesla is acting like a startup, not managing their message. Elon talking about e-planes and hyperloop, but no one on point to discuss daily or quarterly operations and issues that have gone public. The company can't just be his baby anymore. He needs someone to communicate when there are big PR issues and that person may not report to him but they have to have access to Elon. They also need a COO, which they may have, but I am not aware of someone in this formal role as a peer or direct to the CEO or CFO. JB may be that guy, but it seems like they need him focused on Energy, which is critical to making the Model 3 profitable. They also don't show Jason Wheeler on the investor relations page under management.
Bill Gates in talking about scaling up Microsoft said he always thought about how he could manage 10 times the people and being 10 times as big. That means structure and controls. It may slow some things down, but it will avoid going off the rails or being perceived as having gone of the rails.

Calling Tesla a startup was a way to excuse missteps. Obviously nobody would accept that from Amazon. I think AlMc's point was that using the "startup" moniker is not a great excuse at this point - and I fully agree. It is repeated frequently around here.

There is rarely a good "dismiss it" excuse for a 10-year old company to make the kind of communication and timeframe errors that Tesla has made. We can celebrate the amazing achievements of the company while providing valid criticism on their weaknesses. Ignoring one because of the other makes little sense to me.

 

[CTemp222]

This start up conversation is a great discussion. Tesla is acting like a startup, not managing their message. Elon talking about e-planes and hyperloop, but no one on point to discuss daily or quarterly operations and issues that have gone public. The company can't just be his baby anymore. He needs someone to communicate when there are big PR issues and that person may not report to him but they have to have access to Elon. They also need a COO, which they may have, but I am not aware of someone in this formal role as a peer or direct to the CEO or CFO. JB may be that guy, but it seems like they need him focused on Energy, which is critical to making the Model 3 profitable. They also don't show Jason Wheeler on the investor relations page under management.
Bill Gates in talking about scaling up Microsoft said he always thought about how he could manage 10 times the people and being 10 times as big. That means structure and controls. It may slow some things down, but it will avoid going off the rails or being perceived as having gone of the rails.

I think that Tesla does have a lot of industries that it could conquer, they could supply batteries for electric planes (or even boats?). And for every other mode of transportation. However I think they need to focus on cars and stationary storage for now.

 

[ankitmishra]

Tesla is still a start up. The problem here is that people keep on judging Tesla with the same definitions as of a normal average company. What it is doing is extraordinary challenging. If people are going to treat Tesla just like any other automaker, they will always be confused about the views of people supporting it. It's much bigger than a car company, that's why people love it. Have people seen the Spacex landing video? Have they seen people cheering with their hearts out for a company like that? Tesla is also same.

 

[Drivin]

1. No, that is NOT the definition of a short. Please stop making things up. Some short positions are highly leveraged, some don't.
2. As for no real investors buy short expiration options, I guess with that definition, Warren Buffet is not a "real investor".

A lot of misstatement from you. It's probably more complecated than you could comprehend.

Short by nature is highly leveraged even if you put a stop for an increased chance of loss (you proabably wouldn't understand that either).

Looks like you don't understand that you can have short position by buying puts.
That is not a highly leveraged position. Nor is it that "complecated"

"Real Investors", including Warren Buffett, do have short positions for a variety of reasons.

And you are right, I have no idea what you mean by "if you put a stop for an increased chance of loss" - nor do I need to know what you meant by that combination of words since it is relevant to whether "real investors" have short positions.

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Which thread was this?

Look at the second post in the thread on the front page asking about initial issues:

"lets not, it's too early days right now and anything that comes at this stage will not be statistically significant.
only thing it will do is give ammunition to those who want to distort the facts and paint Tesla in a bad light (certain journalists)"

 

[stopcrazypp]

Trying to define "startup" is beside the point. I think the real problem is a lot of people judge Tesla with the same metrics as other car companies (the youngest of which are multi-decades old). The difference is none of those car companies have growth rates measured in tens (they are very lucky to hit double digits even looking seasonally and almost never when looking at a fiscal year). Applying the same metrics as those companies simply does not work.

Basically, Tesla may or may not be a "startup" any longer, but it certainly isn't a company going at roughly steady state as practically all other car companies.

 

[AlMc]

Trying to define "startup" is beside the point. I think the real problem is a lot of people judge Tesla with the same metrics as other car companies (the youngest of which are multi-decades old). The difference is none of those car companies have growth rates measured in tens (they are very lucky to hit double digits even looking seasonally and almost never when looking at a fiscal year). Applying the same metrics as those companies simply does not work.

Basically, Tesla may or may not be a "startup" any longer, but it certainly isn't a company going at roughly steady state as practically all other car companies.

The basic question boils down to: When do we stop giving TM/EM a 'pass' on missing self imposed deadlines and poor communication? Yesterday? Tomorrow? If there are problems with model3 timelines?

 

[ankitmishra]

There wont be any problems with 3. The initial Model wont have awesome innovations.

 

[AlMc]

There wont be any problems with 3. The initial Model wont have awesome innovations.

And how do you know that since we are probably almost 2 years away from production? Yes, it will have fewer innovations but will it be on time and in the price point that was predicted?