Personally I think that Tesla is doing the right thing by simplifying and feature stripping. The key for them is getting volume on time and that means KISS. Early adopters will all be happy anyway, they are after all early adopters.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Yep, the problem is "features" like autonomy are right now an $8000 barely working toy. features like a speedometer, range, and basic safety warnings like autopilot disengage, directly in view are concerning a ton of reservation holders, and probably saved tesla like $100 by not including.
I am sure I will love the car in a few years after I plop down $8000 extra for AP and they get it working well, but they could do a better job of bridging the gap.
Meanwhile that guy in an Audi A4 will be zipping around with his graphical dash that looks cooler than a Model S... and with his heads-up display rocking away.
But hey, you'll be in your taxi. (Because your Model 3 is at the shop waiting for parts.)
There's 3 comparable model classes though for the intended target market for this car: The smaller Model S for those that don't want a luxo barge, the premium sedan (3-series, Audi, Merc), and other BEVs. I'm not seeing sufficient feature or option parity with the premium-sedan buyer's market and that will matter if the contention is to have their business. This focus on the Model 3 as a passenger taxi will dissuade potential buyers that want a sense of driving engagement.
But it's not autonomous now and won't be for many years. How come that is so hard to understand? Anybody buying this car will be driving it manually when not on the highway for years to come. It will not be fully autonomous when it is released. Designing your car for an autonomous driving experience is preposterous when the car is not autonomous.
Big-T
Member
Not to mention not everyone will be buying/activating AP2, last guess I heard was for some form of AP 58% that leaves 168,000 cars from the initial reservation batch without AP - And one would argue non AP activated cars would come first since Elon is pushing base models out first.
Candleflame
Active Member
noone is asking for a beefed up Maybach car here. People just want a way to see their speed in front of their eyes. They had simple speed HUDs already in the 80s FFS.
There is no source, but if you honestly believe we'll have fully functioning autonomous cars within 5 years, you're delusional and part of the same camp that's disappointed that the Model 3 will not be faster with longer range than the Model S.
We're accelerating autonomous driving tech at a fast rate, but we're not even halfway there. Google has been developing this tech for decades. Tesla has like 4 years under their belt and judging by their current ability to autonomously drive in perfect California weather conditions, I'm having trouble stifling my laughter that anybody thinks we'll be even vaguely autonomous in all conditions any time soon.
Tesla is building the car of the future and that's a problem because the technology is still in the present.
freeewilly
Member
I had HUD in my previous 5-series, it was consider one of the best, I had it enabled all the time, but I still look down to the dash for speed and other information. I prefer normal dash over HUD, but if Tesla wants to save money, HUD costs less. Tesla don't even want to spend money on HUD, I wonder what else are missing.
This is the other problem. People buy sporty luxury cars because they're fun to drive and some people enjoy driving. Tesla is limiting the driving experience because "why would you want to drive when the car can drive for you?" Oh, I don't know, why don't you ask the millions of car enthusiasts out there on the track who love to feel the Gs of a hard corner? You can bet your ass your taxi won't be doing anything exciting or exhilarating. Why even bother making the car performance-oriented with fast 0-60 times and performance motors and suspension when the car will just be (safely) driving you anyway? What reason could a human possibly have to drive the car himself?
It's easy to make the car into a good driving experience both autonomously and manually. Tesla is making a huge mistake by ignoring or downplaying the manual aspect in an effort to shave off $100 from the car cost. Users should have the choice to choose their driving experience, especially if Tesla doesn't plan to include Autopilot in the base price. Tesla should not be making that decision for them. This will undoubtedly negatively affect interest from other entry-level sport sedan buyers. I'm sure the likes of Audi, BMW, and MB breathed a huge sigh of relief after Elon's tweet storm last week. "Thank goodness! Looks like Tesla isn't trying to go after our business after all!"
I had HUD in a Lacrosse. Never used it to distraction. Glad Tesla is making a nice, basic car. Save the HUD money for other aspects of the Model 3.
Yes, this will be interesting once we get details to see which one Tesla is aiming for. I was hoping for a premium entry level sedan ala Audi A4 or my old Lexus IS. Something I can get with leather, memory seats, rain sensing wipers, HID headlights, NAV, voice recognition, etc. All stuff that is pretty standard options in the category.
If the 3 turns out to be closer to the Chevy Bolt in interior options, I probably won't be buying one.
Right. And M3 will definitely have fewer buyers that pay for FSD since it is a budget car. I'd be surprised to see anything over 50% in fact.
It is unlikely that the Model 3 was intended for luxury customers. Tesla does make upscale models, which are priced accordingly.
In general a 100HP/100mi EV driveline is currently about $8000 over an ICE driveline, but some of that is depreciated by CAFE/emissions needs.
The IS base edition is $38,000, so a 100mi electric model with slightly less performance would be $46,000.
What would you do to the Lexus IS to remove $11,000 worth of luxury features from the base model?
But I'm going estimate that a 250hp, 215mi electric drivetrain is probably $15,000, so also come up with a way to remove $15,000 worth of features.
And that's going to be a problem for mass market adoption of EV's until the battery costs come down. I traded up from my Volt to a CPO S so that I could get all those creature comforts back and still have EV driving (I would have bought an ELR instead of the Volt if I had known how much they were being discounted at the time, but oh well).
The MSRP of my Volt was the same as my old IS250, however I lost a lot of creature comforts to gain EV capability. I am not sure others would make that trade off (and I got tired of the manual seats after only a couple of years, hence the upgrade).
Nope, this is incorrect. The hardware being used is following Moore's law still. Doubles in power (or more) every 18 months. Concerning software, nearly every company involved with autos or advanced tech (i.e. the smartest programmers in the world) is working on the self driving problem. To postulate that the self driving problem WON'T be solved sooner rather than later (simply because it is hard) ignores the basic fundamentals of the S-curve when it comes to technology acceleration. Anything that can be done will be done.
Some people get this some don't. Nobody "knows", so time will tell. Go watch the 10 Nvidia video presentations from CES 2016. The software "sees" everything that is going on in the surrounding environment. In more detail than any human ever could. Add some clever software and the problem is solved.
RT
