Clearly it must be just me because I don't understand all of this tunnel vision. I would obviously call Tesla and tell them I want to sell the car, I am notifying them in advance pursuant to the ESA requirement, and would like to know if they will approve my ESA transfer. What they say in answer to that question will inform my next steps. That's what common sense would dictate. Sitting here expounding upon this or that according to the text of the contract does nothing but waste time and energy. Do what the agreement says - notify Tesla in advance of your transfer and see what they advise on next steps and if they will give you up front approval. Short of actually doing it, anything anyone says here is worthless.
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Clearly it must be just me because I don't understand all of this tunnel vision. I would obviously call Tesla and tell them I want to sell the car, I am notifying them in advance pursuant to the ESA requirement, and would like to know if they will approve my ESA transfer. What they say in answer to that question will inform my next steps. That's what common sense would dictate. Sitting here expounding upon this or that according to the text of the contract does nothing but waste time and energy. Do what the agreement says - notify Tesla in advance of your transfer and see what they advise on next steps and if they will give you up front approval. Short of actually doing it, anything anyone says here is worthless.
The comment about non-owners is a bit odd because presumably they'd have skin in the game when buying from a private party. This matter affects both owners and prospective owners.
Realize right now if someone wants to buy a slightly used Model S with a longer warranty period than 4 years a private party purchase with the ESA is the only way to accomplish that.
As has been pointed out by a couple of others this is not about what you hear from someone over the phone but what the contract literally states.
As an owner I'd think you'd appreciate the opportunity to have a very clear and fair process for selling your car with the ESA warranty if you wanted to exercise that option to obtain the maximum value possible for your car.
No it is not about what the contract states, it is about how Tesla has implemented what the contract states.
Call them, ask the question, and based upon the answer take the next step. Nobody has done that. Nobody knows. Everyone is reading a document instead of finding out how Tesla has actually implemented this process. The contract says to call them first, so who here has done that? Perhaps what Tesla says in answer to this step might inform the owner's next step, which may be totally different than what people here are presuming.
I find it amusing that people who don't even own the car are arguing how a process will work based upon how it is written in the ESA language. It seems kind of silly to me. If you don't own the car and have a concern about how the ESA transfer process works, it would seem to behoove YOU to call Tesla to get an answer to your concern as a potential customer. Yet neither you nor anyone else here in that position has done so, yet have spent lots of time dissecting legal language and pronouncing how Tesla is doing this or that correctly or incorrectly without knowing how Tesla is implementing the transfer process in actuality.
Quit the collective bitching, call Tesla and post the interaction.
I think you're better off with e-mail than a phone call. Paper trail is a good thing.
I agree. Whatever you hear on the phone is pointless if a buyer and a seller end up with a sold car with an ESA warranty that did not transfer for whatever reason.
Even an e-mail while useful isn't technically part of the contract. What's best is clear, unambiguous, and fair provisions on the actual contract.
Surely those who own a Model S realize the importance of being able to obtain maximum value for the car by selling it private party with the full knowledge that the ESA will transfer. This benefit is nullified if you can't represent to the buyer that the ESA is valid and it will transfer.
Not sure why following the agreement is considered "silly".
How they will implement a policy is indeterminate - and if you don't like how they implement, the only recourse you have is the...wait for it...ESA that you think doesn't matter.
Believing that what the ESA states doesn't matter is what is "silly".
Sure, a particular SC may implement something different on that particular day, with that particular service manager, but if you are selling or buying a car and valuing the ESA based on anecdotal stories, well, that is just...what's the word?...oh yeah, "silly.
The simple approach is to call and ask them to post an FAQ clarifying the issues that were raised here.
Then based on that, if there were things in the ESA that they really didn't mean, they could change the ESA.
Secondly, it seems that people are clear what the ESA states and they are saying they don't like it. Isn't that the point?
Why does someone have to ask for permission to transfer an ESA when no other automotive company does that?
And that happens after you sell the car. Say wut?
Under what conditions would they deny a transfer? (that should be explicit)
HankLloydRight
No Roads
I'm hoping that someday, someone might post NEW information about the ESA, rather than re-posting the same points over and over and over again. The same points have been posted ad-nauseum for weeks now. There's been nothing new since Tesla changed their policy.
I don't mind the normal points and counter points that appear in forms.
What I mind is: point/counter-point/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint/same point/same counterpoint...
Really folks, the horse is dead. We all get your position(s). Until TESLA changes anything, there's no point in re-hashing the same points.
That's exactly what we are all hoping for! :biggrin:
So that we can post here that there is a clear and unambiguous way to sell/buy a car with the ESA so that the seller can represent to the buyer that the ESA is valid and will transfer prior to the sale.
Until such time I suppose we can keep talking about it and responding to each others viewpoints until there is new information.
I'd be glad to send you a Personal Message when there is new information about this matter on this thread so you don't have to needlessly get frustrated that we are talking about the same topic with little new information to share...
One thing the ESA is clear about: oral statements are worthless:
"This Vehicle ESA and any work orders executed at the time of service constitute the entire agreement between You andTesla with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersede all prior agreements, statements, promises, understandingsand negotiations, whether written or oral, regarding the subject matter hereof. . . . This Vehicle ESA and any work order cannot be amended unless in writing andsigned by duly authorized representatives of each party."
All that matters is what the contract says, or what they tell you in writing in an email. Anything they tell you orally can be forgotten/denied later -- oral statements are worthless. Get it writing. Preferably unambiguous writing.
The main Tesla purchase agreement is really good -- a careful, but simple, well drafted agreement. The same care was not taken with the ESA. They should fix that -- for the crowd-sourced reasons above.
Some may wish to take the risk and uncertainty of relying on oral statements, but the risk is when the ESA isn't transferred and they point the language in the contract that allows them to not transfer it, what someone told you on the phone will mean nothing. get it in writing. Smart buyers will want it in writing also.
"This Vehicle ESA and any work orders executed at the time of service constitute the entire agreement between You andTesla with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersede all prior agreements, statements, promises, understandingsand negotiations, whether written or oral, regarding the subject matter hereof. . . . This Vehicle ESA and any work order cannot be amended unless in writing andsigned by duly authorized representatives of each party."
All that matters is what the contract says, or what they tell you in writing in an email. Anything they tell you orally can be forgotten/denied later -- oral statements are worthless. Get it writing. Preferably unambiguous writing.
The main Tesla purchase agreement is really good -- a careful, but simple, well drafted agreement. The same care was not taken with the ESA. They should fix that -- for the crowd-sourced reasons above.
Some may wish to take the risk and uncertainty of relying on oral statements, but the risk is when the ESA isn't transferred and they point the language in the contract that allows them to not transfer it, what someone told you on the phone will mean nothing. get it in writing. Smart buyers will want it in writing also.
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I agree. I feel even those are willing to accept the unclear transfer provisions on the current contract may feel differently if they end up in a situation where they are selling the car private party and the buyer insists on buying a private party car with an extended warranty and this is on the purchase agreement. In such a situation if the warranty does not transfer for whatever reason the seller could be on the hook for the cost of all out of warranty repairs.
Agreed. Bottom line for me is that nothing anyone says here matters because nobody has contacted Tesla to ask them about their transfer process. Everyone is dissecting the contract to death, but nobody has taken the time to look up from the document and actually ask Tesla how they are implementing the transfer process. Seems like that clarification would be super important before people start slamming Tesla. Get all the facts first.
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Fortunately if I were to sell my car, I would be smart enough to contact Tesla first as is indicated in the ESA and proceed from there. Seems like nobody here bothered to do that much to find out what the next step would be. It's awesome how people here are indicting Tesla without even talking to Tesla first. Now I know why TMC has such a bad reputation among most mainstream Tesla owners. All we have here, it seems, are a bunch of complainers with tunnel vision.
Or we are business people who know the value and certainty of a written contract vs oral explanations from someone who answers the phone --- which can be forgotten, denied, or revised later. "Who told you that? I'm sorry, but that's not what the agreement says. And that is what we have to follow."
rxlawdude
Active Member
This is the one aspect of this debate that I find astounding. We have an ambiguous transfer process that if you read the contract as it is written, without an implied "reasonability provision," they can very well at any time refuse to transfer the warranty after the sale has been made and there would be absolutely no recourse. They can just point to the verbiage on the contract.
In such a situation it could result in the seller being open to all sorts of liabilities if the car was sold with the implication the warranty would transfer over. Surely we can all agree and understand the fair way to do this is to have a process to validate the Extended Warranty and receive assurance that the Extended Warranty will transfer before the actual sale, contrary to what the language of the present contract reads.
EXOTIC1
Member
Just curious why hasn't anyone called Tesla direct and asked if selling the car with an extended warranty will in fact transfer to the new owner
or if said car is still in factory warranty and the new buyer wants"extended" can the current owner call an purchase the extended and then transfer to the new buyer
Seems easy enough?
or if said car is still in factory warranty and the new buyer wants"extended" can the current owner call an purchase the extended and then transfer to the new buyer
Seems easy enough?
good grief. As explained multiple times in the thread, what the person, who happens to answer the phone, on any particular day, pulls out of their ass in response to your query is irrelevant. And like with many Tesla queries it is likely that if you call three different times you will get three different answers. And none of them matter. What matters is what is in your contract when you purchase the ESA.
EXOTIC1
Member
Shouldn't a car contract be industry standard? just like any other CO (mercedes BMW porsche) any warranty factory or extended stays with the car when sold via pvt party to another pvt party buyer (only a slight fee is involved ie $100 transfer). Why should tesla operate any differently?
They obviously should be able to CONFIRM their stance on this, now i'm even more intrigued :smile:
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Better question to ask is if anyone here had actually done a ESA transfer and what is the process. Given the conditions did not change, that would be most instructive as to the actual process. The condition about inspection is unclear, but at the same time it doesn't say it can't happen before the sale. So why can't someone do the inspection beforehand?
This is exactly the issue that many of us are concerned with it.
IMHO even if they allow someone to get some type of a preauthorization that the ESA is valid and will transfer to a seller PRIOR to the car actually being sold, the language on the contract as it reads now allows them to only consider a warranty transfer after the car has been sold. I said "consider a warranty transfer" because in such a situation the buyer and the seller would find out if the ESA is valid and will be transferred only after selling the car.
Why not just make the warranty transfer process as simple as filling out a form like just about every other manufacturer or have a clearly defined validation process for the ESA transfer before the car is sold?
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