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Extended Service Agreements No Longer Transferable?

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#161
This is an enormous bonehead move from Tesla brass. Many people I've recommended the car to voiced concern over depreciation and cost of after warrantee repairs. My counter was always the transferable extended warrantee and that Tesla stands behind their cars. Now this confidence is gone. This will hurt overall sales for tesla. New and used. The ESA is a safety net maintaining desirability of all the cars. Who in their right mind would want to buy a Tesla new or used now?! Without the support of the extended warrantee, The cars value will be in a free fall of depreciation from the moment of purchase.

These cars are very expensive to repair. I knew this when I considered buying. I was not a blind fanboy. My confidence came from knowing there was an available transferable extended warrantee like my previous 5 Mercedes. Had I known this was about to happen I would not have bought this car. A transferable extended warrantee shows the marketplace the manufacture has confidence in the car and stands behind it as well as supports its owners. Removing the transferability shows the exact opposit. I was considering an X for my spouse but sorry Tesla that is 100% off the table now. You can keep the model X. If Tesla does not have confidence in their vehicles then neither do I. I really am sorry I purchased this vehicle now and I wholeheartedly will not recommend it to anyone else. There's a reason Tesla offered to warrantee the batterie & drive units to 8 years. To maintain confidence. A transferable extended warrantee does the same thing whether owners buy the warrantee or not! It maintains confidence in the brand. This will hurt sales as the implications of the depreciation of ownership leaks out and when people & the media realize that Tesla has lost confidence in their vehicles.
A real blunder of a move for Tesla.
 
#162
rxlawdude said:
I guess I wasn't clear enough for you: warranty law prohibits denial of repairs merely because the consumer didn't follow the maintenance schedule. Obviously (DUH!), if you fail to change engine oil or coolant, any failure of said engine would legitimately be denied. But failure to have the 12.5K mile service (or any interval) on the Tesla cannot be used to deny the WARRANTY failure of the main display, handles, or any other electronic component (let's face it, the expensive parts), as these de facto require no maintenance per se. Similarly, because there is no scheduled service on the drive units (except for the inverter coolant changes), failure to have the car serviced at 12,500 miles (service interval for coolant is 25,000 miles, I believe) cannot be a basis for denying a failure of the DU.

The ESA is governed by its terms, as warranty law is not applicable.

I really wish that people unfamiliar with the application of the law would stop proclaiming correct information "false" because someone "looked it up on the Internet."
Click to expand...
Your implication clearly was that Tesla's removal of maintenance requirements from the warranty had no legal difference because general warranty law already covers everything in terms of maintenance provisions. I am saying that is false and completely disagree with the implication.
rxlawdude said:
Warranty law prohibits manufacturers from denying coverage for merely not following maintenance requirements, which is why the Elon blog was really not worth the electrons it took to render.
Click to expand...
I linked the change in the wording of the warranty (basically removal of "lack of maintenance" as a condition):
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...RABLE/page13?p=1368883&viewfull=1#post1368883

Every warranty I have read has a maintenance requirement provision (even for EVs) and Tesla's new warranty doesn't. I linked the Leaf's previously.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...RABLE/page12?p=1368525&viewfull=1#post1368525

rxlawdude said:
Similarly, because there is no scheduled service on the drive units (except for the inverter coolant changes), failure to have the car serviced at 12,500 miles (service interval for coolant is 25,000 miles, I believe) cannot be a basis for denying a failure of the DU.
Click to expand...
Using the example you gave, under the old warranty they can deny your DU or inverter warranty for failure to change the coolant. Under the new warranty they can't. I would say that is pretty significant and definitely "worth the electrons it took to render".

The no oil change example may be extreme, but manufacturers still routinely deny warranty for affected parts if you don't follow their maintenance schedule (for example doing oil changes but not on time). You can find a third party to do it or do it yourself, but you must have it documented.
 
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#163
Luclyluciano said:
This is an enormous bonehead move from Tesla brass. Many people I've recommended the car to voiced concern over depreciation and cost of after warrantee repairs. My counter was always the transferable extended warrantee and that Tesla stands behind their cars. Now this confidence is gone. This will hurt overall sales for tesla. New and used. The ESA is a safety net maintaining desirability of all the cars. Who in their right mind would want to buy a Tesla new or used now?! Without the support of the extended warrantee, The cars value will be in a free fall of depreciation from the moment of purchase.

These cars are very expensive to repair. I knew this when I considered buying. I was not a blind fanboy. My confidence came from knowing there was an available transferable extended warrantee like my previous 5 Mercedes. Had I known this was about to happen I would not have bought this car. A transferable extended warrantee shows the marketplace the manufacture has confidence in the car and stands behind it as well as supports its owners. Removing the transferability shows the exact opposit. I was considering an X for my spouse but sorry Tesla that is 100% off the table now. You can keep the model X. If Tesla does not have confidence in their vehicles then neither do I. I really am sorry I purchased this vehicle now and I wholeheartedly will not recommend it to anyone else. There's a reason Tesla offered to warrantee the batterie & drive units to 8 years. To maintain confidence. A transferable extended warrantee does the same thing whether owners buy the warrantee or not! It maintains confidence in the brand. This will hurt sales as the implications of the depreciation of ownership leaks out and when people & the media realize that Tesla has lost confidence in their vehicles.
A real blunder of a move for Tesla.
Click to expand...

Kinda shakes the confidence for current owners too. Makes me wonder if I need to dump my car that is approaching 50K. Fortunately the white P85 has the ESA, but the black one doesn't.
 
#164
Luclyluciano said:
This is an enormous bonehead move from Tesla brass. Many people I've recommended the car to voiced concern over depreciation and cost of after warrantee repairs. My counter was always the transferable extended warrantee and that Tesla stands behind their cars. Now this confidence is gone. This will hurt overall sales for tesla. New and used. The ESA is a safety net maintaining desirability of all the cars. Who in their right mind would want to buy a Tesla new or used now?! Without the support of the extended warrantee, The cars value will be in a free fall of depreciation from the moment of purchase.

These cars are very expensive to repair. I knew this when I considered buying. I was not a blind fanboy. My confidence came from knowing there was an available transferable extended warrantee like my previous 5 Mercedes. Had I known this was about to happen I would not have bought this car. A transferable extended warrantee shows the marketplace the manufacture has confidence in the car and stands behind it as well as supports its owners. Removing the transferability shows the exact opposit. I was considering an X for my spouse but sorry Tesla that is 100% off the table now. You can keep the model X. If Tesla does not have confidence in their vehicles then neither do I. I really am sorry I purchased this vehicle now and I wholeheartedly will not recommend it to anyone else. There's a reason Tesla offered to warrantee the batterie & drive units to 8 years. To maintain confidence. A transferable extended warrantee does the same thing whether owners buy the warrantee or not! It maintains confidence in the brand. This will hurt sales as the implications of the depreciation of ownership leaks out and when people & the media realize that Tesla has lost confidence in their vehicles.
A real blunder of a move for Tesla.
Click to expand...
I hope REAL owners like yourself and others that have articulated your feelings so well, are also taking the time to send your thoughts directly to Tesla. [email protected]

It's great we can all use social media like TMC to voice our concern (and some people that don't have and may never have a Tesla can jump on here and vocalize so often), but true Tesla owners or those really considering replacing one with a future Tesla and have now chosen not to, carry far more weight with me, and I suspect will with Tesla Mgmt -- if any can. Tesla hasn't IMHO been the best attempting to proactively take input from a broad section of their ownership in the past, but I continue to hope they will to improve longer term customer satisfaction and loyalty which is so important to long-term success. Thanks from at least one other MS owner to those making your voices heard to Tesla.
 
#167
Luclyluciano said:
This is an enormous bonehead move from Tesla brass. Many people I've recommended the car to voiced concern over depreciation and cost of after warrantee repairs. My counter was always the transferable extended warrantee and that Tesla stands behind their cars. Now this confidence is gone. This will hurt overall sales for tesla. New and used. The ESA is a safety net maintaining desirability of all the cars. Who in their right mind would want to buy a Tesla new or used now?! Without the support of the extended warrantee, The cars value will be in a free fall of depreciation from the moment of purchase.

These cars are very expensive to repair. I knew this when I considered buying. I was not a blind fanboy. My confidence came from knowing there was an available transferable extended warrantee like my previous 5 Mercedes. Had I known this was about to happen I would not have bought this car. A transferable extended warrantee shows the marketplace the manufacture has confidence in the car and stands behind it as well as supports its owners. Removing the transferability shows the exact opposit. I was considering an X for my spouse but sorry Tesla that is 100% off the table now. You can keep the model X. If Tesla does not have confidence in their vehicles then neither do I. I really am sorry I purchased this vehicle now and I wholeheartedly will not recommend it to anyone else. There's a reason Tesla offered to warrantee the batterie & drive units to 8 years. To maintain confidence. A transferable extended warrantee does the same thing whether owners buy the warrantee or not! It maintains confidence in the brand. This will hurt sales as the implications of the depreciation of ownership leaks out and when people & the media realize that Tesla has lost confidence in their vehicles.
A real blunder of a move for Tesla.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Biggest concerns I had in my purchase decision (and as an owner) was the uncertainties of long term (lifecycle) costs. The possibility that the car could become an unsupportable $130k paperweight (a la Fisker) is a real concern. While that doesn't seem too likely, assumptions I made about Tesla making the car more reliable, supportable, and cheaper to own as the fleet grew have proven unfounded. They are becoming more like just another car company every day. CPO and warrantee policy changes are diminishing the value of my car faster than I expected when I purchased. That doesn't encourage me to make (or encourage others to make) further investments in this grand experiment.
 
#168
Luclyluciano said:
Wait a minute! Where exactly does it say the ESA is not transferable? In going back & reading what was posted originally I see the ESP is not Transferable NOT the ESA. Can someone clarify? Post where it says this please>
Click to expand...
Of note since you are in Canada, earlier in this or another thread there was indication that perhaps the Canadian agreements were (lagging in their updates or) not 100% the same as US wording. I've not verified that for myself, but wouldn't be surprised given my past experience trying to maintain and coordinate international agreements and some of the legal challenges that entailed forcing slight variations in certain regions.
 
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#170
Luclyluciano said:
Where does tesla actually say ESA not ESP is non transferable. Post the quote. Not an article which could be incorrect.
Click to expand...
"... with coverage becoming available on and retroactive to the date that Your New Vehicle LimitedWarranty expires (the “Effective Date”), provided that You are the initial purchaser of the Vehicle directly from Tesla andpurchase this Vehicle ESA no later than 30 days after such expiration date."
and
"This Vehicle ESA is not transferrable by You under any circumstances." (in boldface on original text)

Any more questions? :confused:
 
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#172
sorka said:
Page 134 calls out the maintenance requirements. It includes battery coolant at 5 year intervals or 62K miles(this has changed to from being 4 years with no mileage limit) and brake fluid to every two years or 25K miles (this has changed from 3 years with no mileage limit). A bunch of daily checks and monthly checks which any owner can perform.

In addition
"Rotate the tires every 5000 miles (8000 km),maintain the correct tire pressures, and takeModel S to Tesla at the regularly scheduledmaintenance intervals of every 12 months, orevery 12,500 miles (20,000 km), whichevercomes first. It is also important to perform thedaily and monthly checks described below.Model S must be serviced by Tesla-certifiedtechnicians. Damages or failures caused bymaintenance or repairs performed by nonTeslacertified technicians are not covered bythe warranty."

But that part in bold does not specify services to be performed and does not say that it is for maintenance every 12,500 miles. It's a "maintenance interval" without any specified services to be performed. We've been back and fourth on this. I still stand by my belief that the ESA can't be invalidated unless you fail to perform the the maintenance as specified in the maintenance schedule.

Has anyone yet been denied ESA coverage that failed to pay their protection racket money?
Click to expand...

I guess if we wanted to interpret all of this literally, I would be denied ESA coverage because Tesla rotated my tires every 7,500 miles instead of every 5,000 miles. They did that at their option, even though I brought it in every 5,000 miles. They said it didn't need rotating and to come back in a few thousand miles. The new ESA agreement doesn't even spell out the service intervals, it merely says something along the lines of having the vehicle serviced as recommended in the owner's manual.
 
#174
OK...time for some basic math folks.
This has nothing to do with the X. That may be different math.

4 visits to replace 1 door handle out of warranty - $1,300 X 4 = $5,200.
Under ESA, those same 4 visits cost $5,600.

If you have 4 visits for door handles plus one visit for screen, then the ESA was a good buy.

I took my car in for 1yr interval at 11mos and 18,000 miles. I am fairly certain I am off the table for being able to buy the ESA.

That's not good.

Doesn't much matter to me as I was not a buyer anyway. $4000, plus $200 visit deductible, plus $200 per part deductible... Too much.

At that price for ESA, it is cheaper for me to take my car in and have door handles replaced at $1300ea, four times, for cash, than to buy the ESA.

And way cheaper to just buy the center screen.

Now, if I have to go in 4 times for handles, and then have to go in a 5th time for the screen, then I would have been better with ESA. The chances though are slim.

And really, those seem to be the only vulnerabilities outside the drive/battery 8yr unlimited miles warranty. Just about everything else will cost less than or near the $400 that every service visit will cost during an ESA ($200 deductible in-the-door plus $200 per part).

So, though a questionable decision for Tesla...I am still good.
 
#177
JeffS said:
OK...time for some basic math folks.
This has nothing to do with the X. That may be different math.

4 visits to replace 1 door handle out of warranty - $1,300 X 4 = $5,200.
Under ESA, those same 4 visits cost $5,600.
Click to expand...

I thought the current ESA (nov 2015) is $4000 plus $200 per visit. No mention of a per part deductible (I think that was an older one). So by that math you are ahead with the ESA and 4 door handles (as separate failures) vs paying out of pocket.

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/na_tesla_warranty_plan_agreement_ot.pdf
 
#178
Az_Rael said:
I thought the current ESA (nov 2015) is $4000 plus $200 per visit. No mention of a per part deductible (I think that was an older one). So by that math you are ahead with the ESA and 4 door handles (as separate failures) vs paying out of pocket.

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/na_tesla_warranty_plan_agreement_ot.pdf
Click to expand...
If that is the case, you are correct by $400. That is barely ahead in my opinion, but that is just me. Everyone has a risk tolerance. What baffles me is that in most circles, only those with less brains than cents buy extended warranties. They are the things you get suckered into with the finance person.

With Tesla though, it seems illogically flipped. Like... Crowd mentality fear in my opinion. But that is just me. Just my opinion.

I am in the minority on lots of levels. I am unconcerned about the depreciation because I plan to keep my car for 150,000 miles like I do all my cars. But really, still, this whole thing seems way overblown to me. Again, just me. And hey...what do I know.
 
#179
I feel badly for those who did not buy the ESA when it was first offered for $2500 and also the 8 year service plan for $3800. At the time it seemed expensive but now I am glad that I shelled out the $6300 because both are transferable. My 2012 fully equipped Pearl White P85 is in perfect condition with 39K miles. I wonder how much having these transferable plans would add to resale value if I decided to sell. Just wondering. I also feel that not letting people transfer their ESA is a very bad move on Tesla's part and will backfire. Hopefully they monitor these forums and will reconsider because I want Tesla to thrive and this is not a good move. I for one wouldn't buy a Tesla without a transferable ESA.
 
#180
Can someone point to the place where this $1300 per door handle figure came from? I'm going to talk to my SC on Tuesday, I can't believe this is still the case for door handle repairs.

Under ESA, those same 4 visits cost $5,600.
Click to expand...

The number actually would be: $4000+ 4x$200=$4800.

And that's if the ONLY thing you go in for for repairs in 4yrs/50k miles.

So you can't really compare the non-ESA price for 4 handle repairs to the total cost of the ESA, since the ESA covers essentially anything else that might fail.
 
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