False Advertising - 2014 S60

[ICKnight]

Specs - ‘14 Model S 60 / 54K miles

Issue - Car charges to 172 miles at max. setting

Question - Where did the 36 miles go? 208-172=36

17% battery degradation? I can understand ~5% ...for a max charge @ ~195

Tesla tells me “It charges based on your habits...it’s a really smart car”. Really? Does the car know I’d like to take a trip with it and I require as much pack as possible?

Can someone explain why I am not getting what I paid for ?

Thank you

 

[ucmndd]

Batteries degrade over time. Some faster than others depending on how they have been charged/discharged over the course of their life. This is explicitly stated in the owners manual and the 8 year unlimited mile battery warranty doesn't cover it.

17% is certainly on the high end of range loss, not in line with what most others are seeing. But I'm not sure this is a case of "not getting what you paid for".

Have you owned the car since new?

 

[markb1]

My 2013 S60 get's only about 188 rated miles from a full charge (extrapolating from 169@90%). Most of the degradation happened early on. The other thing that can happen is the car can lose track of how much energy is stored in a full charge. From what I've heard, this calibration issue is more likely if the car is regularly charged to a low state of charge, like 50%, and it can be corrected by charging to 90% every day for a while.

 

[TexasEV]

What Tesla told you makes no sense at all, but we’ve seen Tesla reps say a lot of stupid things. When I sold my 2013 S 60 with 42,000 miles on it, the 100% charge was 199 miles (compared to 208 miles when new). 17% range loss is far outside the bounds of what people have reported. You probably have a bad battery module. Call service again.

 

[commasign]

Try a discharge to <10% then a max charge. It might bring your estimate back up. 17% is definitely an outlier.

 

[ICKnight]

Specs - ‘14 Model S 60 / 54K miles

Issue - Car charges to 172 miles at max. setting

Question - Where did the 36 miles go? 208-172=36

17% battery degradation? I can understand ~5% ...for a max charge @ ~195

Tesla tells me “It charges based on your habits...it’s a really smart car”. Really? Does the car know I’d like to take a trip with it and I require as much pack as possible?

Can someone explain why I am not getting what I paid for ?

Thank you

Batteries degrade over time. Some faster than others depending on how they have been charged/discharged over the course of their life. This is explicitly stated in the owners manual and the 8 year unlimited mile battery warranty doesn't cover it.

17% is certainly on the high end of range loss, not in line with what most others are seeing. But I'm not sure this is a case of "not getting what you paid for".

Have you owned the car since new?

Thank you for your reply. I have not owned the car since new. I just don’t understand why the battery is not performing close to specifications. How can an owner mess up plugging in a battery to a degree that it’s operating at ~80% of advertised performance?

This purchase was to evaluate the Tesla technology and get a feel for performance and lifestyle. If positive ... then upgrade to new one at some point. So far I’m not ecstatic... $43K is a lot of money. I as a consumer expect more.

 

[Troy]

I recommend selling that car and buying a Model 3. You could ask Tesla what you would get for a trade-in. If you are considering this option, you might want to follow the developments about the $7,500 federal tax credits. If this article is correct, then $7,500 will last until 30 Sep 2018. Also, check out the range numbers here.

By the way, EPA rated range does not depend on your driving habits. More details here.

 

[TexasEV]

Did you not ask about the actual battery capacity (range at 100% charge) of this used car before you bought it?

 

[ICKnight]

My 2013 S60 get's only about 188 rated miles from a full charge (extrapolating from 169@90%). Most of the degradation happened early on. The other thing that can happen is the car can lose track of how much energy is stored in a full charge. From what I've heard, this calibration issue is more likely if the car is regularly charged to a low state of charge, like 50%, and it can be corrected by charging to 90% every day for a while.

 

[ICKnight]

Thank you for the reply and I have tried that for a week now ... no improvement. What if I need 190 miles out of the pack? It’s either a bad battery or rediculous amount of time needed to build to its full charge. Either way .... it’s bad

 

[MP3Mike]

Thank you for your reply. I have not owned the car since new. I just don’t understand why the battery is not performing close to specifications. How can an owner mess up plugging in a battery to a degree that it’s operating at ~80% of advertised performance?

Easy they could have set it to charge to 100% all the time and left it fully charged. That causes excessive degradation, as does leaving it near 0%. Excessive heat, or cold, can also cause issues.

That is why almost everyone checks the range at a 100% charge to get an idea of what state the battery is in when they are buying a used Tesla.

 

[omarsultan]

How can an owner mess up plugging in a battery to a degree that it’s operating at ~80% of advertised performance?

If the prior owner left the car sitting around at 100% or very low charge for extended periods of time, it would have a detrimental effect on the battery pack's capacity. Tesla's battery management technology is actually some of the best out there--for example, I have a '13 P85 with 115K miles on it and only have ~6% loss. As others have said, your 17% loss is an outlier. Has service actually checked your pack out or is the comment noted in the initial post from a phone call? With that kind of loss, I would ask service to check for some kind of defect--I think they can do that remotely.

 

[Snowstorm]

17% loss is not normal, probably 2x more than one would expect even in a pretty bad case.

Try recalibration the battery meter by running it down to 10% and then charging to 100%. Avoid charging it to >90 on a regular basis as it is bad for the battery, especially if you let it sit at a high stage of charge (drive after charging it full to 100%). Also avoid draining it below 10%. Operating it within he sweet spot of 20-80% for max life (30-70% is even better if practical for you).

 

[jaguar36]

Did you buy the car new? Or did you get it secondhand? If secondhand then what did it charge to when you bought it? It wouldn't be Tesla doing the misadvertising if you bought it second hand from a third party.

Its quite possible to have extreme battery degradation if you abuse the battery. Its also quite possibly a manufacturing defect. No way to know without knowing the charging history.

I recommend selling that car and buying a Model 3.

Why would you recommend a Model 3 to someone with a degraded S60 battery? There is no evidence that the 3 batteries will have any less degradation. The 3 and the S are completely different cars, what if he needs 7 seats?

 

[ICKnight]

Try a discharge to <10% then a max charge. It might bring your estimate back up. 17% is definitely an outlier.

I have tried that ... it’s not doing the trick

 

[ICKnight]

I

If the prior owner left the car sitting around at 100% or very low charge for extended periods of time, it would have a detrimental effect on the battery pack's capacity. Tesla's battery management technology is actually some of the best out there--for example, I have a '13 P85 with 115K miles on it and only have ~6% loss. As others have said, your 17% loss is an outlier. Has service actually checked your pack out or is the comment noted in the initial post from a phone call? With that kind of loss, I would ask service to check for some kind of defect--I think they can do that remotely.

Thank you again for all the help and advice. This is a very helpful forum. I like most if not all of you love what Tesla is doing and want this company to succeed for so many reasons. My first experience with owning a Tesla is just ok ... car drives great ... beautiful... no gas. Their service is horrible Westmont IL location is where I’m hearing this nonsense... on top of being flat out lied to. As much as I dread calling the service center back ... I’ll take your advice.

 

[Snowstorm]

I have tried that ... it’s not doing the trick

They next thing you can do would be to check with Tesla to see if they can run some diagnostic on this to see if it is just degradation due to abuse or if there was a defect with the battery.

There really isn’t a hard line the consumer can see, so you would be at the mercy of what the SC wants to do to fix it.

Hey, 17% is bad and an outlier, but at least it isn’t like a leaf where degradation is expected to be 10% a year norminal.

 

[ACA Man]

Specs - ‘14 Model S 60 / 54K miles

Issue - Car charges to 172 miles at max. setting

Question - Where did the 36 miles go? 208-172=36

17% battery degradation? I can understand ~5% ...for a max charge @ ~195

Tesla tells me “It charges based on your habits...it’s a really smart car”. Really? Does the car know I’d like to take a trip with it and I require as much pack as possible?

Can someone explain why I am not getting what I paid for ?

Thank you

Is your car a pure 60 or is it one with 75 locked to 60?

 

[ucmndd]

Is your car a pure 60 or is it one with 75 locked to 60?

There is no such thing as a software locked 2014 60. Don’t confuse him further.

 

[mtndrew1]

Are you certain you have the charge slider all the way to 100%? It defaults to 90% for daily use.

Edit: I’m referring to the “set charge limit” on the attached image.