Fed up with supercharging, going back to ICE

[sub]

It's silly to try to pin a particular human behavior to the owners of one brand of vehicle, as if they are all one and the same.

Example, my wife was at a work conference and the hotel had both Tesla destination chargers and another type, not sure which. My wife and I are very considerate, she charged our Model X and as soon as it was full she went and moved the car even though there were 3 more spots empty.

On the other hand, her coworker has a volt and had zero concerns about moving his car, acted entitled and joked about it being a "VIP" parking spot since it was right in front.

Are all volt owners now aholes?

I enjoy the process of planning a trip and the relaxation of taking a break and charging. I catch up on tmc reading or other tasks I can take care of via my phone while I wait. just took a weekend trip to Reno for volleyball tournament for my daughter, we were the only Tesla charging at Gardnerville and Reno had 3-4 empty out of 6 both times I used it including the jerk Mercedes driver parked in one spot.

There is another cult besides the EV cult by the way that wasn't mentioned above, it's the whiny little biatch club of which there are many members that post on tmc regularly!

 

[jtdiddy]

And this is somehow better?

lol

 

[lklundin]

To be honest, even with a queue like that, you'd still be outta there in about 15-20 minutes. Most likely faster than any Supercharging stop. Definitely faster if one needed to Supercharge nearly to full from empty.

Unlike pumping gas, supercharging does not require you to stand next to your vehicle, instead you relax, you visit the restroom and then go to have a bite or drink or post something on TMC or other useful stuff.

PS. Does 'To be honest' mean that you are normally not honest?

 

[jerry33]

After driving a Tesla, I'd never go back to an ICE. About half of my 108K miles are trip miles. However, trips put a lot of miles over a short period of time, so the number of days there is a supposed inconvenience is small. Doing four two to four driving day trips per year, 5% of my driving days are for trips (12-13K miles/year). The rest of the year I never have to think about stopping to charge.

A typical trip day has three (or perhaps four) SC only stops, one lunch stop, and one destination stop, so the number of stops and the time taken are identical to an ICE (Stops are mandatory even if no gas is purchased). The time involved is most often 15 minutes or less for a supercharge--at least that's been my experience. I haven't noticed any material difference in the total time taken between an ICE and a Tesla--road construction, or lack thereof, is usually the determining factor in which is faster.

Before there were SCs, timing was important so that most of the day wasn't spent at RV parks, back then an ICE was faster but not more enjoyable.

 

[bro1999]

Unlike pumping gas, supercharging does not require you to stand next to your vehicle, instead you relax, you visit the restroom and then go to have a bite or drink or post something on TMC or other useful stuff.

PS. Does 'To be honest' mean that you are normally not honest?

I'm more honest than our current president, that is for sure.

 

[NeverFollow]

just ordered an X, so i don't have home charging yet but my first supercharging experience was terrible.
was test driving a model 3 that i rented, had to charge it back up. headed from oc to LA to return.

1st stop, supercharger in santa ana was 12/12 full at 1pm on a weekday with 3 cars waiting. lame.
what are these people doing. waited 10 minutes, one car left and one in line took a spot.

checked the map, saw that buena park, only 6/8 stalls full, and there was a tesla store so i could check out the showroom.
so i drove there instead. of course when i got there 2 of the stalls were actually coned off and not working.
and the other 6 were full with two cars waiting. ugh.

sat there for 20 minutes. no one moved. **** this. drove to hawthorne where it said 3/12 full.
by the time i got there 10/12 were full and i had supercharger anxiety that i was going to not get a spot
and jammed into a spot as fast as i could.

sat there for 30 minutes in the car to charge because there was absolutely nothing to do at the design center.
boring as hell. how do people wait for 30 minutes for a fill up.

I understand your frustration...

There are some interesting points about Superchargers status that I noticed from your posting,
and from some other postings. I thing that the current web apps technology could (and should)
provide additional information and would even more and more crucial in the future.

- The first one is certainly having a live status of the available and working superchargers.

Supercharger status usage is now provided by Tesla, but you can only access it from inside your car.
It would be more handy if you could access a website from your phone, but Tesla don't want to do it.
May be to protect this information for other competitors companies.

However, there is no easy way to inform Tesla or users when a Supercharger is not working or working again.
There is a Tesla telephone number to call, but I don't think this is often used for reporting an issue.
If there is an issue, someone will just try using another stall or go to another Supercharger.

I wonder if Tesla cannot detect if a Supercharger is out of service directly? The fact that at the buena park location
some stalls were conned off (by Tesla service?) but not reported is certainly an issue.

I website like Waze would be more practical to report superchargers status and issues.

On an other thread, someone reported that during a mandatory evacuation following an hurricane,
a supercharger was flooded but was reported as working and empty is certainly a big concern.

- About the waiting line issue, where some users pass in front of other without respect of others.

Don't superchargers locations have a WiFi connection? I'm sure they are all connected to Tesla.
So, could a supercharger site detect a car passing by, I wonder if a message could be send to the
car asking if the user wanted to use the charger, and if so it would be put automatically in a waiting list
if no stall is available?

This would avoid this conflict situation of cars waiting online, and may be blocking traffic.
Also this could be used to detect if a car is parked using GPS but not connected and blocking a stall.

- I wonder if having some stalls to be reserved in advance for travelers during their journey.
So if you enter you itinerary and select some supercharger locations, when you are about 100 miles
from your next stop, you could confirm you estimated arrival time to have a stall reserved
or to be on a priority waiting list?

Well, at list the Tesla supercharger network is in general well maintained and don't have any equivalent.
I was recently watching this Youtube video from a driver in Europe with a Hyundai Ioniq EV .
who eventually had his car towed to the next working charger....

 

[TexasEV]

I don’t think you understand that his frustration applies to only a handful of supercharger locations. Ouside of Southern California and Silicon Valley, in the US you’re much more likely to encounter a completely empty supercharger site than a full one. On a trip with 35 supercharger stops last year (including many in California) I encountered exactly 1 full one, Tejon ranch, and that is currently being expanded. You’re proposing solutions for problems that don’t exist for the most part, and where they do it’s better solved with a few more stalls.

I think frustration levels are magnified in people who bought a Tesla because of autopilot rather than it being an EV. They don’t have the patience it sometimes takes to drive an EV.

 

[dethman]

I understand your frustration...

There are some interesting points about Superchargers status that I noticed from your posting,
and from some other postings. I thing that the current web apps technology could (and should)
provide additional information and would even more and more crucial in the future.

- The first one is certainly having a live status of the available and working superchargers.

Supercharger status usage is now provided by Tesla, but you can only access it from inside your car.
It would be more handy if you could access a website from your phone, but Tesla don't want to do it.
May be to protect this information for other competitors companies.

However, there is no easy way to inform Tesla or users when a Supercharger is not working or working again.
There is a Tesla telephone number to call, but I don't think this is often used for reporting an issue.
If there is an issue, someone will just try using another stall or go to another Supercharger.

I wonder if Tesla cannot detect if a Supercharger is out of service directly? The fact that at the buena park location
some stalls were conned off (by Tesla service?) but not reported is certainly an issue.

I website like Waze would be more practical to report superchargers status and issues.

On an other thread, someone reported that during a mandatory evacuation following an hurricane,
a supercharger was flooded but was reported as working and empty is certainly a big concern.

- About the waiting line issue, where some users pass in front of other without respect of others.

Don't superchargers locations have a WiFi connection? I'm sure they are all connected to Tesla.
So, could a supercharger site detect a car passing by, I wonder if a message could be send to the
car asking if the user wanted to use the charger, and if so it would be put automatically in a waiting list
if no stall is available?

This would avoid this conflict situation of cars waiting online, and may be blocking traffic.
Also this could be used to detect if a car is parked using GPS but not connected and blocking a stall.

- I wonder if having some stalls to be reserved in advance for travelers during their journey.
So if you enter you itinerary and select some supercharger locations, when you are about 100 miles
from your next stop, you could confirm you estimated arrival time to have a stall reserved
or to be on a priority waiting list?

Well, at list the Tesla supercharger network is in general well maintained and don't have any equivalent.
I was recently watching this Youtube video from a driver in Europe with a Hyundai Ioniq EV .
who eventually had his car towed to the next working charger....

those are some great ideas! real time availability outside of the car, notices when stalls are not working (and thus putting out of the available queue) and a virtual 'line' for urban superchargers where there often is one would definitely alleviate some of these stressors. a reservation system would be a great idea too! i'm sure in areas where no one is ever at superchargers this is no big deal, but in southern california, where there are teslas EVERYWHERE and not enough superchargers (what's up tesla?) this seems to be an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[Rocky_H]

However, there is no easy way to inform Tesla or users when a Supercharger is not working or working again.
There is a Tesla telephone number to call, but I don't think this is often used for reporting an issue.

I’m sorry. I can’t take this the least bit seriously. You say there is “no easy way”? And highlight that in bold? It’s a phone call to a direct reporting line. It’s about as easy as it can be. I’ve called and reported a problem with a stall. But your reasoning is just because you have a theory that most people don’t bother doing it that it must be hard/impossible?

I wonder if having some stalls to be reserved in advance for travelers during their journey.
So if you enter you itinerary and select some supercharger locations, when you are about 100 miles
from your next stop, you could confirm you estimated arrival time to have a stall reserved
or to be on a priority waiting list?

This has been brought up before a lot. Any system that involves reserving a stall, preventing others from using it does, by its very definition, result in less efficient utilization of the resources than the first come first served system, where people are always using them when they are free. Yes, it’s a convenience for one particular driver, but it does create more time of stalls sitting idle and being wasted, and so is worse for the system and everyone overall.

 

[dethman]

I don’t think you understand that his frustration applies to only a handful of supercharger locations. Ouside of Southern California and Silicon Valley, in the US you’re much more likely to encounter a completely empty supercharger site than a full one. On a trip with 35 supercharger stops last year (including many in California) I encountered exactly 1 full one, Tejon ranch, and that is currently being expanded. You’re proposing solutions for problems that don’t exist for the most part, and where they do it’s better solved with a few more stalls.

I think frustration levels are magnified in people who bought a Tesla because of autopilot rather than it being an EV. They don’t have the patience it sometimes takes to drive an EV.

problem is that a vast number of tesla owners live near or around these 'handful of supercharger locations.' it's great that you are in texas, and tesla has to put a bunch of superchargers there every 200 or so miles so it can say you can drive their cars everywhere, and no one ever uses them.

but in the greater san francisco area there are only 8 working superchargers. compared to the tesla population? omg. in orange county where i live? only five. but in my housing community alone there are about 20-25 S's and 8-10 X's. if tesla continues to advertise supercharging as a benefit, it should make that benefit easily available to everyone. not just someone who lives in a flyover state.

 

[Saghost]

I’m sorry. I can’t take this the least bit seriously. You say there is “no easy way”? And highlight that in bold? It’s a phone call to a direct reporting line. It’s about as easy as it can be. I’ve called and reported a problem with a stall. But your reasoning is just because you have a theory that most people don’t bother doing it that it must be hard/impossible?


This has been brought up before a lot. Any system that involves reserving a stall, preventing others from using it does, by its very definition, result in less efficient utilization of the resources than the first come first served system, where people are always using them when they are free. Yes, it’s a convenience for one particular driver, but it does create more time of stalls sitting idle and being wasted, and so is worse for the system and everyone overall.

There's a variation on this I think might happen, though.

If every car running on navigation passes its ETA and estimated charge times for the full route to the mothership, then they can see where things are likely to back up - and the next car that does route planning can use that data to schedule a different Supercharger string past the back up, if there's one available.

Still first come first serve, but with a little data analysis and connectivity, less delay and better overall utilization.

 

[mattack4000]

problem is that a vast number of tesla owners live near or around these 'handful of supercharger locations.' it's great that you are in texas, and tesla has to put a bunch of superchargers there every 200 or so miles so it can say you can drive their cars everywhere, and no one ever uses them.

but in the greater san francisco area there are only 8 working superchargers. compared to the tesla population? omg. in orange county where i live? only five. but in my housing community alone there are about 20-25 S's and 8-10 X's. if tesla continues to advertise supercharging as a benefit, it should make that benefit easily available to everyone. not just someone who lives in a flyover state.

I disagree with you. It's like highway lanes. The more you build, the more cars will show up. They need to stop local free supercharging (Hard to do it to current owners, but maybe new ones) for people who can charge at home. There are too many freeloaders who goes around blocking superchargers because they are too cheap to pay $10 to charge their car. The supercharger should be used for trips or emergencies, they should not be used as a place for free fuel.

 

[sub]

I would like to see Tesla provide how many cars are at the supercharger you car is charging at on the app. I know they give a notice when it's half full or more and that fees will apply, but it can only help to know how many are at the charger to increase efficiency.

Also, I ran into an inoperable charger at Clovis in central California. I've used this charger 3-4x on trips and it's never been more than half full so it wasn't an issue. However, I meant to call after I ate lunch but forgot. If Tesla provided an easy way to report issues via app or car rather than calling then it would increase uptime. This would also allow them to post on both that there are some inoperable chargers and the # available would adjust accordingly.

 

[TexasEV]

but in my housing community alone there are about 20-25 S's and 8-10 X's. if tesla continues to advertise supercharging as a benefit, it should make that benefit easily available to everyone. not just someone who lives in a flyover state.

If your housing community doesn’t have garages where Tesla owners can install 240V outlets to charge at home, sounds like it’s a good candidate for Tesla’s multi family residential charging program:
Charging Partners | Tesla

Tesla can’t possibly provide enough superchargers for owners to make that their primary means of charging.

 

[Rocky_H]

it's great that you are in texas, and tesla has to put a bunch of superchargers there every 200 or so miles so it can say you can drive their cars everywhere, and no one ever uses them.

Wow, this kind of attitude? I used Superchargers in Texas in February, not because I live there, but because I DON'T live anywhere near there. It makes driving away from where you live possible, and Tesla owners do it every day. It was a 5,000+ mile trip, and I used 38 Supercharger locations across the country. You seem to have this weird perception that it has to be all or nothing. You seem to think if they aren't used very much then they shouldn't exist or something. But the ones that are being heavily used are making you angry. So what do you want?

 

[gnuarm]

I don’t think you understand that his frustration applies to only a handful of supercharger locations.

Yes, so far. With the rapid expansion of model 3 sales we can expect to see these problems expand to many other areas of the country especially at busy times like holidays. Around Thanksgiving I needed to use a destination charger at a motel and three cars ended up sharing a single circuit with the attending lower charge rate. No joy for anyone. One guy I had talked to for a few minutes ended up leaving before he got any real miles added to his battery. He must have decided he was confident enough to make it home rather than wait an hour to add a handful of miles.

Ouside of Southern California and Silicon Valley, in the US you’re much more likely to encounter a completely empty supercharger site than a full one. On a trip with 35 supercharger stops last year (including many in California) I encountered exactly 1 full one, Tejon ranch, and that is currently being expanded. You’re proposing solutions for problems that don’t exist for the most part, and where they do it’s better solved with a few more stalls.

Wow, I think this is a very optimistic and unrealistic outlook. There will be twice as many Teslas on the road next year as there are now. The Supercharger I was at today had three cars in six bays. So next year, in the middle of a weekday, you can expect the six stalls to be full. So what happens at the busy times???

Anyone who is the least bit objective will understand the charger capacity needs to double over the next year as well.

I think frustration levels are magnified in people who bought a Tesla because of autopilot rather than it being an EV. They don’t have the patience it sometimes takes to drive an EV.

Of course, it is the car buyers who are at fault. So people should stop buying Teslas? Yes, I think you should tweet that to Elon.

 

[Merrill]

There is a trade off for everything we do in life, you have to make a decision as to what you feel is important. I mostly charge at home off of solar, but I feel the inconvenience of having to stop to supercharge is worth not buying gas and supporting the monopolistic petroleum cartel. I will never go back to an ICE, so it is all about priorities and how you want to live your life.

 

[Yinn]

There is a trade off for everything we do in life, you have to make a decision as to what you feel is important. I mostly charge at home off of solar, but I feel the inconvenience of having to stop to supercharge is worth not buy gas and supporting the monopolistic petroleum cartel. I will never go back to an ICE, so it is all about priorities and how you want to live your life.

Such hatred for petroleum. I don’t have anything inheritly against gas. But I do agree it’s easy to forget how much of a pain it is to actually get gas vs charging at home. Not to mention the $60 bill and realization that in a week I’ve spent the same as a months worth of electricity for the same miles..

Gas vs supercharger is easier and faster with gas though.

 

[Merrill]

It is not hatred it is a dislike, and just because it is easier does mean it is a good thing to do.

 

[gnuarm]

Such hatred for petroleum. I don’t have anything inheritly against gas. But I do agree it’s easy to forget how much of a pain it is to actually get gas vs charging at home. Not to mention the $60 bill and realization that in a week I’ve spent the same as a months worth of electricity for the same miles..

Gas vs supercharger is easier and faster with gas though.

I don't wish to argue about the benefits of BEVs, but the whole petroleum thing is not at all so cut and dried. Yeah, there is some savings but much of our electricity is still produced by burning petroleum or at least natural gas which still puts carbon in the atmosphere. I don't know the exact numbers but it is not insignificant.

However, if you have your own solar charging it is a different matter. That's 1 to 1... although the real benefit is from having the solar rather than the car. You can instead reduce your household electric consumption (again reducing the use of petroleum) or feed the grid reducing the overall use of petroleum even if you don't use a BEV.

Driving BEVs does not yet reduce greenhouse emissions in a huge way but it does open the door to more non-polluting electric generation. It's a needed step on the road to zero-emissions.