Fell asleep using Autopilot - admission from a Model S owner

[mhan00]

When I used to drive a lot making sales calls, I kept either spicy or sour snacks in my car. They helped a lot to keep me awake during long, boring, repetitive drives.

 

[Zybd1201]

i dont recall him saying his hazards were on....
But its a serious issue if the car activates its stop procedure on a moving traffic freeway. An alarm to wake the driver should be deployed first before or as its about to go through the slow down procedure. That kind of technology is not hard to implement since the alarms already do sound for other safety features

I am plenty critical of Tesla and autopilot but I don't really know what else you could ask of them here. There is definitely an alarm that sounds. It has to stop somewhere and if you train it to attempt to get off of the road anything could happen. It is not necesssarily safer. I also believe this mechanism is more to prevent people from ignoring the alerts and just let autopilot drive for ever.

Tesla AP has to make a decision and both options are pretty bad if the driver becomes incapacitated. The discussion about which bad choice to choose is an ethical one and not a clear one.

 

[glusc2002]

This alarm is interesting. He doesn't recall the alarm sounding at all. Does it turn off after a period of time when the car actuall comes to a stop? In this video the driver stepped on the pedal so I couldn't see what would happen as a complete comparison.

 

[glusc2002]

I am plenty critical of Tesla and autopilot but I don't really know what else you could ask of them here. There is definitely an alarm that sounds. It has to stop somewhere and if you train it to attempt to get off of the road anything could happen. It is not necesssarily safer. I also believe this mechanism is more to prevent people from ignoring the alerts and just let autopilot drive for ever.

Tesla AP has to make a decision and both options are pretty bad if the driver becomes incapacitated. The discussion about which bad choice to choose is an ethical one and not a clear one.

I agree with others. It would be pretty dangerous to be programmed to pull off to the side without knowing what's on the side. Im asking for an alarm like when pilots need to eject lol. Well not exactly but that would be cool and within theme of the tesla.

 

[glusc2002]

I thought it did have quite a loud alarm for this case. I've tested it (with no traffic around) and it was pretty strident.

I'm pretty sure he would have said he heard the alarm and in the vid posted early , the alarm continued even after the driver stepped on the pedal after the dead stop. Maybe the alarm stops after some time at a dead stop ?

 

[mblakele]

I'm pretty sure he would have said he heard the alarm and in the vid posted early , the alarm continued even after the driver stepped on the pedal after the dead stop. Maybe the alarm stops after some time at a dead stop ?

Probably the alarm stops when the car does, but the hazards should have remained on. Your friend didn't notice the hazard lights, but they might have been on anyway. Even in ordinary circumstances memory is fallible. In this case he was sleepy: so much so that he fell asleep behind the wheel. Because of that, normal assumptions about memory and observation don't apply.

 

[hill]

Ah yes, the good ole' "I have a friend who..."

oh - I DO believe him.
The thing is, I have 100 friends who know his friend, and his friend says (to all 100) that his friend was just kidding.

.

 

[xG35]

If he wasn't driving with autopilot; he will likely wake up to a terrible accident.

That's not to say the alarm shouldn't be louder, it's plenty loud for me. I am sure Elon wants the car to be able to pilot off the highway and go into a parking lot, but we are just technology limited at this time.

Last night, my friend had fell asleep while auto pilot was engaged around 3am on the freeway, when he had woke about 10 miles from when he recalled he was awake (on the freeway), his car had stopped in the far right lane (not shoulder). He wasn't sure if the car had moved itself to the right or if that was the lane he was currently in. However it did stop in a lane that was for moving traffic and was quiet surprised he didnt wake to an accident or being rear ended by another vehicle.

If I was in his situation, I honestly think the car should make a very louder than normal alarm as the car is performing to slow down. It has so many other safety features I dont find this unreasonable. The alarm in a mild sound goes off when you dont wear your seat belt, when you dont have your hands on the wheel with AP after a certain time or distance driven, the steering wheel vibrates when you cross over lanes with out the signal, etc. I would strongly urge Tesla to update an alarm for this instance. I know a lot of owners would say , well dont fall asleep at the wheel or you should always be alert, but the fact is, there definitely are going to be occasions that were not intentional when owners are too tired or medically they knock out at the wheel. Also to note, the tesla knows the MPH on the road its on. If it knows that the MPH is say 65-70mph, why would it stop in lane with moving traffic, and have the owner just wake up at any time to find himself in a moving lane? There really should be an alarm that sounds off. As an owner I would find this a beneficial feature and not one bit annoying.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Agreed. The alarm should sound deafening like a burglar alarm both inside and outside too. How about some also enabling flashers too ?

Although you have to agree that your friend owes his life to AP, unless you are arguing he fell asleep because of AP?

A loud alarm in a moving car when the driver is asleep is a bad idea.
The reaction of the driver being alerted is going to be unpredictable. Usually it will be negative by jerking the wheel!

 

[glusc2002]

I think the driver should have the the option in the control panel to set the alarm volume to their preference. I alternatively think that the car stopping in a lane of moving traffic is a more accident potential than being startled by an alarm. How many times have you woke up to your cell phone alarm or clock alarm and jerked up, its generally a gradual awakening, but non the less you do wake up, which is why I believe the volume should be louder than its current setting, or maybe a more annoying sound like a panic alert tone.

 

[BobtheV]

I favor a klaxon coupled with something that vibrates your seat

 

[mikeash]

How about a robotic hand which emerges from the steering wheel and slaps the driver's face until they wake up?

 

[GoTslaGo]

How about a robotic hand which emerges from the steering wheel and slaps the driver's face until they wake up?

Don't know about that, may just slap them back into unconsciousness!

 

[Electroman]

How about increasing speed and aim for the nearest tree?

 

[Ulmo]

The key question none of us can answer is: what is statistically safer? A sleepy/drowsy barreling down the highway using autopilot, or an awake driver not using autopilot but who is subject to all the "human errors" and attention lapses people routinely make while driving?

I firmly believe the latter, given current AP. (Future AP will be different, in the far future -- many many months, maybe dozens of months.)

I am of the opinion that the average safe driver who lets themselves get too sleepy is at more risk of a crash falling asleep with Tesla's current assistance package than if they were to pull over and make certain they are completely alert before resuming driving responsibilities regardless of whether or not they are using Tesla's AP. The issue is this: every once in a while, Tesla's current AP will do something unsafe, and if there is no conscious human alert and driving, will crash. That, compared to the same situation, same driver, same Tesla, but the driver decides to be ultra-sensitive to their awakeness state, and at the first inkling of potential exhaustion taking over in the future, gets off the road safely and makes accommodations; in that latter situation, the person is much, much safer, than in the former situation where they fall asleep at the wheel of a current AP car. Right now, I advocate strict adherence to complete driving alterness as the only proper and safe solution, current AP or not.

Yes, we all look forward to a time when Tesla's AP is autonomous. But then, there's the issue that we will no longer be important to the driving experience, and we will have nothing to do when going places. It's a mixed blessing. Soon, governments may be taking over our individual transport, and denying us the right to live, work, visit, or travel where, where, who or where we want, on the basis of various do-gooder rules like who is hogging the roads, or "resources", "disproportionately". (I often socialize hundreds of miles away from where I live. I often work an hour away from where I live. I often travel hours away from where I live. Suddenly, I'd become an Enemy of the State, all because all new cars got autonomous driving to function well and governments saw their opportunity to start dictating centrally planned human lives.)

I think the heyday of our driving experience will be when we are still allowed to drive anywhere and autonomous driving works perfectly and goes precisely where we tell it to go. That is coming soon. We all better be ready to enjoy it, because it possibly will be relatively short lived.

Here's an anecdote from my personal experience. This year, most days, I get tired during driving, and have to pull over, walk around, nap, get water, whatever, on almost a daily basis. Sometimes I even need to sleep, get a hotel, etc.. Whenever I pull over at the first available moment after I notice that I need to do so, I tend to be OK. In the past when I thought I could be superman, that's when problems came up. That "I'm almost home" or "just another exit and I'll be further toward the destination" never works. Here and now is when I take control of my own destiny, not "down the road sometime", and if my body is saying it needs to do something else besides drive, I have to immediately adhere to its physical needs.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I am of the opinion that the average safe driver who lets themselves get too sleepy is at more risk of a crash falling asleep with Tesla's current assistance package than if they were to pull over

I see where you are coming from, but to add a data point:

I have a fairly regular drive returning from a concert venue at 10pm, getting my home around 11:15pm. I've driven that route for a decade, its highway all the way, little traffic, boring ... and pretty much every time I have been fighting sleep the last 10 miles.

Since AP I haven't been in that position of fighting sleep, and have come to the conclusion that AP is actually reducing "effort" of driving, or changing it in some way that is less tiring.

 

[trond.strom]

I've found it to be the opposite so far. The tedium and continuous detailed concentration of manual driving can make me drowsy. I actually did fall asleep at the wheel once, VERY briefly, some years back. But on autopilot I never feel that way. I think the ability to stretch, disengage, look at something besides the road, etc., helps me to stay alert.

Your experience may, of course, vary.

I find the same. This summer i drove from venice to home just outsiude of oslo in about 30 hours distance of 2186 km or 1358 miles according to google maps. I only stopped for supercharging and food. I found taht AP was absolutely helpting me stay alert and awake during this trip. although the 20 minute powernaps at superchargers probably helped alot as well

 

[Electroman]

The need to constantly look at the roads and lanes in front of you and the resulting monotony has the potential to tire you more, makes you more drowsy.

AP actually has the opposite effect. It keeps you relaxed, it cuts the monotony and keeps you awake.

Counter intuitive for some. But you got to experience it to understand

 

[mikeash]

Add me to the list of people who finds that Autopilot keeps you awake. Driving manually tires me out terribly, but with Autopilot I feel like I can go just about forever. I've had some scary fatigue-related moments in other cars, but (so far!) not in this one.

 

[X Yes?]

Okay so this may be a taboo topic, but someone had to bring this up sooner or later. I've now spoken with three Model S drivers who each admit that on long drives Autopilot keeps them refreshed - but strangely also sometimes induces drowsiness similar to the effect many people experience while riding in cars as passengers.

And two of those people told me that switching off the auto-steer function instantly restored mental alertness. Sounds ridiculous I know.

I wonder if this drowsiness effect is common - if so I would not be surprised to see nobody on the forums admitting it, out of a (perhaps misguided) fear of either being lectured by self-appointed safety-nags (you know who you are) or worse, having their posts brought in as evidence in some future civil action after a car accident.

But the kicker - I've spoken with a Model S owner (no I will *not* identify that person in any way so don't ask) who admitted to me privately that on an hour long drive recently they briefly nodded off three times coming home late at night from a party. This person claims they don't think they were asleep for long - but of course how would they know? They didn't know how fast they were going - somewhere between 65-75 mph they estimated - and of course the "nod offs" couldn't have been for too long because they never awoke to find themselves parked on the freeway with their emergency blinkers after "hold the wheel" failed to get their attention.

This is a person who doesn't drink or use any drugs, who's in good health.

However, the owner may have used autopilot to travel in a situation in which they otherwise would not have - coming home alone late at night from a party (the person is normally an early to bed type).

The key question none of us can answer is: what is statistically safer? A sleepy/drowsy barreling down the highway using autopilot, or an awake driver not using autopilot but who is subject to all the "human errors" and attention lapses people routinely make while driving?

Gotta applaud your honesty. With any of these driver assistance systems, this is a real danger for all on the road.