Firmware 5.8

[rlang59]

Well, I had the issue when going from 4.5 to 5.6, where my vampire losses went from 10 miles/day to 16-20 miles in a 6-12 hr period.

Well, got the 5.8 update and installed Monday Morning, it is now 10:55pm monday night. My car stopped charging at 90% 1 hour ago (give or take 15 minutes). It stopped at 90% charge at 173.2 miles. I am now DOWN to 168 miles. That is, I repeat, after 1 hr of sitting. 5 miles in 1 hr.

I really wish the service center had never updated me from 4.5 :cursing: I asked for a downgrade, as this is killing my range! On top of the cold weather (Weather made no difference in my vampire losses, though, my final immediate charge level is at least 10 miles lower with the colder weather).

I drive anywhere from 150-180 miles/day, and have done so since I got my car. I can no longer do that. Even when coming immediately off a charge. I now charge my car to 90%, and then 1 hr before leaving in the morning, I hit range mode. So now I am range charging DAILY! Where as all Summer, and even into the COLD weather with 4.5 I did not. Extremely disappointed, and I'm not a complainer.

I don't think this has anything to do with the cold. It is from them changing how they read it, I'd really like to know how they are coming up with the number. I saw the same thing since the update and it was 60F yesterday so not weather related.

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That's not necessarily related to the software. It's winter now. Your battery gets cold while it's not charging, and will display a lower range during that time. Once it warms up it should be back to the higher range again.

You shouldn't need to do a range charge in the morning, turning on the heat while connected to shore power should be sufficient.

In my case that didn't seem to happen. Lost about 20 miles or so (some was vampire) after sitting at work all day in ~30F temps. This was two days in a row after the update. Never got that range back, it hasn't gotten that cold again since so I haven't been able to repeat that test but it is a data point.

 

[glhs272]

Well, I had the issue when going from 4.5 to 5.6, where my vampire losses went from 10 miles/day to 16-20 miles in a 6-12 hr period.

Well, got the 5.8 update and installed Monday Morning, it is now 10:55pm monday night. My car stopped charging at 90% 1 hour ago (give or take 15 minutes). It stopped at 90% charge at 173.2 miles. I am now DOWN to 168 miles. That is, I repeat, after 1 hr of sitting. 5 miles in 1 hr.

I really wish the service center had never updated me from 4.5 :cursing: I asked for a downgrade, as this is killing my range! On top of the cold weather (Weather made no difference in my vampire losses, though, my final immediate charge level is at least 10 miles lower with the colder weather).

I drive anywhere from 150-180 miles/day, and have done so since I got my car. I can no longer do that. Even when coming immediately off a charge. I now charge my car to 90%, and then 1 hr before leaving in the morning, I hit range mode. So now I am range charging DAILY! Where as all Summer, and even into the COLD weather with 4.5 I did not. Extremely disappointed, and I'm not a complainer.

Just some data that may or may not be relevant:
I am still running V4.5. I was seeing about 5 miles of vampire after about 12 hours, so 10 miles per day. About the same as you were getting. I have been holding off getting 5.8 based on feedback from here at TMC. I have the option of charging in my in-house (heated) garage. I went on a road trip to Rhinelander WI this weekend. I ranged charged from my house and got 209 rated miles when pulling off the charger. I topped off at my brothers house and got 209 miles again. Did a 1 hour charge at 208V/30amps (19mi/hr) at Bergstom Nissan in Oshkosh. Made it the rest of the way to Rhinelander with a healthy 12 miles of range left. I was there all weekend and did a standard charge to 90% right away. The car got cold soaked while outside up there. When I made my trip home it would only range charge to about 202, so I lost about 8 miles. I think this is only due to the cold. Curiously, I still got about the same actual range on the initial range charge despite starting off with lower numbers. I am thinking that battery temperature skews the range indication lower, even if the same amount of energy is actually in the battery. When I left Rhinelander for home I was "hot off the charger" and was doing pre-warming on shore power to maximize range. After I got home I did a recharge (last night) in my heated garage. This morning it seems I have my normal range back (about 184 miles @ 90%).

Islandbayy do you have the ability to charge in a heated garage? I am curious to see if your poor results with V5.8 are made worse by the outdoor temps. My daily driving needs don't require maximizing the range capabilities of my 60. But, on these occasional road trips every mile counts. I can't loose too much margin before making these trips gets difficult. I need the software updates to improve range not take it away.

 

[islandbayy]

That's not necessarily related to the software. It's winter now. Your battery gets cold while it's not charging, and will display a lower range during that time. Once it warms up it should be back to the higher range again.

You shouldn't need to do a range charge in the morning, turning on the heat while connected to shore power should be sufficient.

Yah, that warms the pack, and give me more performance and regen back, but it does not restore range.

 

[glhs272]

Yah, that warms the pack, and give me more performance and regen back, but it does not restore range.

Also I was curious if you balance your pack frequently. By that I mean do a range charge at 120volts 12 amps. Considering your daily driving requires such a large depth of charge I would think that might help.

 

[islandbayy]

The initial 10--15 miles lower completed charge is, the vampire losses after charging complete is not.

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I did a range charge, then, drove to my shop, parked it in our heated shop overnight and charged on a 120v (all thats available) and I did get my normal range back for completed charge. The "vampire" losses were still insane as it was when parked outside at home charging.

The only thing that seems to be temp related is the final end charge. Now, If I drive it hard, get the pack super warm from flooring it, then charge up immediately, I get my full range as well as the pack is much warmer. I am having doubts of being able to do my road trip this winter in my MS. Without the superchargers available, my spacing for CHAdeMO's and level 2's, I end up needing about 170-185 miles in between stations, and I just don't think with the cold I will be able to do that. Then again, a CHAdeMO at 50kW will heat the pack up like a Supercharger, so I may be ok. Might have to drive extra slow.

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Yah, when warmer, I did not, my pack got very out of balance in October, when the temps were 60+ during the day, and 50+ during the night. I did a balance charge, and boy, went from 192 range charge miles back up to 208 once, and the other times 205ish. I cant break 200 now, and hovering around 195-198 for range charges.

When I supercharged for the first time Saturday Evening, my pack got nice and hot (AC compressor kicked in to cool the pack), and I got 204 miles, and it was still going but I needed to leave.

But all in all, on the 5.6 and 5.8, I am loosing wayy to much.

Kept track of it last night, charging stopped at 9pm (within 15 minutes) to a 90% charge of 173.2, by Midnight, I was down to 167, by 10 am, I was down to 160 miles. I heated the car/pack up on shore power this morning, started driving, within a few one minute of driving, I lost another 5 or 6 miles. Service center put 5.6 on 2 weeks ago to the day. Prior to that, All I had was the 10 miles/day normal vampire losses. Temps were actually colder then then the last week. Now, even with 5.8, this is just insane. It's becoming useless for me. Rep on the phone said they cant push firmware to a car on a case by case basis, unless I went to a service center. Right now, with current range, I cant make it to the Villa Park and return home (about 80 miles each way) safely in one trip without spending a few hours their charging. that, and that blows 6 hours of my time just in driving (Chicago Traffic getting their). I really Really want 4.5 back. Actually, I liked 4. whatever initially came with my car, was it 4.1? Cant' remember, I got the best range (Not talking about what the car says my range its, I'm talking actual range), and saw a immediate few mile drop in real world driving on 4.5, and you know where it goes from their.

 

[glhs272]

islandbayy^^^^ I am also curious if you are running any third party apps like Visual Tesla or anything else that maybe is keeping your computers "awake" more than they should be. If you were, perhaps there is constant "pinging" via telematics that is keeping the computers busy. My understanding is that the vampire comes from solely the onboard computers. Therefore any increase or decrease in vampire is based on their operation. They way your car is loosing miles, it is like the computers are full "drive" mode and not shutting off in the least.

On a side note, if one were to put a 12 volt trickle charger on the 12 volt system to keep the voltage "up" thus preventing car from sucking juice out of the main pack, would this entirely eliminate vampire? Anyone know if this would be a "bad idea" aside from being a hassle?

 

[islandbayy]

islandbayy^^^^ I am also curious if you are running any third party apps like Visual Tesla or anything else that maybe is keeping your computers "awake" more than they should be. If you were, perhaps there is constant "pinging" via telematics that is keeping the computers busy. My understanding is that the vampire comes from solely the onboard computers. Therefore any increase or decrease in vampire is based on their operation. They way your car is loosing miles, it is like the computers are full "drive" mode and not shutting off in the least.

On a side note, if one were to put a 12 volt trickle charger on the 12 volt system to keep the voltage "up" thus preventing car from sucking juice out of the main pack, would this entirely eliminate vampire? Anyone know if this would be a "bad idea" aside from being a hassle?

I do run the Tesla iPhone app, and visual tesla. Though, I have taken to completing killing the app on the phone and closing out of Visual Tesla once charged, that was to help me determine when the charge was complete. I've been doing that since 4.5 as well.


I like your idea of a Float Charger on the 12v battery. In fact, I will do that this evening, and see if any difference is had. I will do one of my usual Youtube Videos and report back here.

 

[SarahsDad]

Some additional observations after going from 5.0 to 5.8 and doing some more driving today.
As I mentioned in my post #298 above, regen is clearly reduced initially, then gradually ramps up to max. Still using a lot more brake than pre-5.8, but I have to admit I'm getting used to the smoothness of it.

And acceleration feels more non-linear - smaller increases in power with initial pedal depression, then larger increases with further depression of the pedal.

And the "sport" steering mode is definitely different - wasn't sure at first but becomes obvious with slow speed steering - much less wheel torque when making a K-turn, for example. Steering wheel feel and "connectedness" at speed doesn't seem different. So I kinda like this change now.

Finally, I took the "back way" home today through some of my favorite tight twisties - and it felt like I could take the turns faster, more smoothly, and seemingly more safely, with 5.8. This is with regen off (high regen never worked well for me for this kind of spirited driving).
So perhaps some air suspension tweaking with the new firmware too?

Yep, grinning again.

 

[ACDriveMotor]

I'd like to hear a 5.6 -> 5.8 view of the changes that SarahsDad reports. I am hoping that 5.6 -> 5.8 the only difference I will notice is the LOW air disable.

 

[jomo25]

You are aware of the regen limits caused by cold weather, right? When the battery pack is cold the Model S starts to dial back the regen power. If the car is soaked to ambient the limits start to kick in a few degrees above freezing. You end up using your brake pedal a LOT more in winter because of this. (Trust me, I've already been through one winter with the car. I rarely get full regen power.)

From what I saw the regen still came on very quickly after the change. It is a fraction of a second slower than before, just enough so you don't get a jerk when releasing cruise control. But still quite a bit faster than I lift my foot.

Are you sure you're not conflating the update with the normal thermal regen limits?

It's not cold here in Phoenix. So that's not the reason. It is as yo describe except I think its not a small fraction of second. It's a big fraction of second. And that IMO is enough to make a 5-7% difference in energy usage.

I, still at work so I don't have my full round trip data point for the day. But I drove MUCH more aggressively to work this AM and I was still under what I typically had for Wh/mi pre 5.8. I do believe driving style/habit will I act the difference the new regen makes for you. As I admitted in my initial post on this, I don't do a great job of feathering the accelerator when I want to slow down, so presumably this change would benefit me more so.

 

[Al Sherman]

I'd like to hear a 5.6 -> 5.8 view of the changes that SarahsDad reports. I am hoping that 5.6 -> 5.8 the only difference I will notice is the LOW air disable.

I don't think the new regen was there on 5.6. I like it.

I've been using Sport only since March and didn't notice any difference.

Didn't notice better handling either but it is definitely less stable at high speeds (interstate) as expected.

I DID notice a different in the acceleration also but am not sure how to describe it. It seems smoother but also seems to take more break away thrust with the throttle to get the car up to the same speed as under 5.6. It takes more power to get to a certain speed at the same rate as under 5.6 if that makes any sense.

 

[apacheguy]

Also I was curious if you balance your pack frequently. By that I mean do a range charge at 120volts 12 amps. Considering your daily driving requires such a large depth of charge I would think that might help.

Hmm... I seem to recall that Tesla initiates the pack balancing program after all charges regardless of the SOC limit. Shouldn't have to be 100%.

 

[contaygious]

I don't think the new regen was there on 5.6. I like it.

I've been using Sport only since March and didn't notice any difference.

Didn't notice better handling either but it is definitely less stable at high speeds (interstate) as expected.

I DID notice a different in the acceleration also but am not sure how to describe it. It seems smoother but also seems to take more break away thrust with the throttle to get the car up to the same speed as under 5.6. It takes more power to get to a certain speed at the same rate as under 5.6 if that makes any sense.

Yup, you have to mash it if you want to go fast now. Before it was power at your toes with ease. But i think I'm getting used to it. It is much smoother at slow speeds and slowing down now.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Agree with SarahsDad. Got used to the new regen over the past couple of days and it does feel a lot more smooth and natural now. I can see my passengers jerking forward much less.

And, not sure if it's a function of the regen/acceleration changes or the contentious air suspension changes or both but, I'm breaking all sorts of personal records for Wh/mile numbers achieved without any change to my driving style!

I'm talking Jerry33-level records: 250 Wh/mile for my 50-odd mile weekday driving when compared to anywhere from 270-300 Wh/mile of late.

Dang, Jerry's on 5.8 too and he must be clocking under 200 Wh/mile by now

 

[xhawk101]

Wondering if the increased efficiency maybe partially due to the more efficient creep?

 

[ZBB]

But I drove MUCH more aggressively to work this AM and I was still under what I typically had for Wh/mi pre 5.8. I do believe driving style/habit will I act the difference the new regen makes for you.

I'm also noticing lower Wh/mi on 5.8. I also have a ~60 mile round trip commute in the Phoenix area -- from far north Scottsdale to downtown. Downhill on the way in (~1500 foot elevation drop), uphill on the way home. On 4.5, if I drove ~5 over the posted limits, I'd typically get 285-290 Wh/mi, if I drove 10 over, I'd get a little over 300 (302-304). I've now had 2 commutes on 5.8 -- I drove yesterday at 10 over and I had ~285, and today I drove at 5 over and had ~275...

-----
As for vampire loss, I reported yesterday that I lost 5 miles in 9 hours while parked at work. When I got home last night, I rebooted both screens. Today I only lost 1 mile in about 10 hours parked at work...

Will continue to monitor -- 5.6 appeared to be sleep well at times, and lose lots of range at other times. Hopefully the screen reboot helped force sleep to work reliably now...

 

[Denarius]

These updated posts are tempting me to install 5.8.

 

[bosgig]

I can see how a change to the acceleration can help Wh/mi, although that shouldn't come into play much on long highway drives. I know I'm using the brakes a lot more with the new regen profile, so I'm failing to see how that can be helpful either (not to mention far less "green" on the power meter when in regen). So I'm wondering if they have simply changed how they're calculating and displaying Wh/mi? Any real world range confirmations? In theory people getting much lower Wh/mi should be seeing much better actual range.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

The correlation between the Wh/mile numbers and the Rated range seems to hold. With numbers in the 250-270 Wh/mile range, I'm "beating" the rated range estimates with ease. I'll gather more precise numbers the rest of the week.

 

[shawnbush12]

Had my tires rotated today at the Orlando Service Center and they installed 5.8. Have not played with it yet but like the new map and head up instead of north up.