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Firmware 6.1

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It would be great if it could be in all modes, agreed that's the most optimal choice (looks like you were the one that posted the comment I read this about earlier in the thread :), but it might cause a slight delay, that while not that noticeable on the interstate, might still be sub-optimal for in city driving or full performance mode, if that's the case I can understand why it'd be a selector button, my contention is that it just shouldn't be automatically combined with the other range mode settings like HVAC/Heat.

If it's only a slight delay, and not combined with the previous range mode settings, there's no reason not to drive around in that mode most of the time. It could even have a setting where torque mode is turned off automatically (a choice to do this btw), when Insane mode is selected, i.e., you're about to toast a ferrari at a stop light and don't want those things slowing you down. There could even be a "launch mode" button that optimizes everything for a takeoff, i.e., turn car to insane, turn torque sleep off, turn HVAC/Heat etc. all off, (probably other things to optimize power as well).

It really doesn't sound like there should be any delay at all. Straubel was comparing it to computers that sleep between keystrokes, using words like "instantly", and wrote that "digital torque wake up is so fast that the driver can't perceive it." This definitely sounds to me like something that can be on all the time, with no degradation of performance due to a timing issue.

And I agree that it shouldn't be combined with anything else, like range mode. I have posts about that too. In fact, I wrote to [email protected] at about 2:30 AM this morning. Here's a copy of my message:

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Apparently the torque sleep mode to improve the P85Ds range to what it had been advertised as, as explained in JB Straubel’s blog post back on December 31, (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/driving-range-model-s-family) is in version 6.1.139 of the firmware, which my car is installing as I type. From what I’ve seen, though, this is, I hope just temporarily, only going to be available if I turn on range mode.

Can you please confirm that this is only temporary, and that the torque sleep as JB Straubel described will not require that the car be in range mode? I do not want to have to limit my HVAC’s function in order to improve the range of my P85D to what I was expecting it to be at the time I ordered it, based on information on the Tesla website at the time. Also when in range mode it is not possible to heat the battery while preheating the cabin while plugged in. Living in upstate NY, where it is quite cold, we do this all the time. If we had to operate in range mode I fear we would forget to unset range mode when exiting the vehicle, and then we would not be able to preheat the battery when we preheat the cabin using the mobile app.

So my question again is will it be possible to use torque sleep without having to engage range mode? If so, when is the update that will enable this likely to be sent? Please note that this is what was expected by the end of January, based on the blog post referenced above. The range discussed in that blog post that the torque sleep update was to deliver was expected at the time my car was delivered, based on the specifications on the Tesla website at the time I ordered it.

If you’re not sure of these answers, could you please pass this along to engineering, and ask someone in that department to respond to me? I am very concerned about this matter.

Thanks very much.
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@MarcG, can you hit your info icon on Range mode and see if it has the same verbiage that my P85D has on 2.2.139 regarding distributing torque?

There is actually no info icon next to RANGE MODE in 2.2.113:

IMG_6571.jpg



EDIT: when tapping the ON button under RANGE MODE, the following message appears:

IMG_6572.jpg
 
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Also when in range mode it is not possible to heat the battery while preheating the cabin while plugged in. Living in upstate NY, where it is quite cold, we do this all the time. If we had to operate in range mode I fear we would forget to unset range mode when exiting the vehicle, and then we would not be able to preheat the battery when we preheat the cabin using the mobile app.

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Could somebody explain to me why "Range Mode" prevents the battery from being warmed up while plugged in? Heating the battery while plugged in should IMPROVE the range. Me no understand.
 
Here is my conspiracy theory :) ... It's quite obvious that the reason Tesla bundled torque sleep with Range Mode is because they were unable to achieve the promised efficiency using torque sleep alone. Realizing that most owners would not see a noticeable improvement with torque sleep and those owners would complain and write about it online (bad press), they bundled it with Range Mode. This muddies the waters enough so that nobody can exactly identify how much efficiency is gained just from torque sleep.
 
Could somebody explain to me why "Range Mode" prevents the battery from being warmed up while plugged in? Heating the battery while plugged in should IMPROVE the range. Me no understand.

Agreed. There are several instances where range mode is actually detrimental. For instance, while SpC range mode should be off so as not to limiting pack conditioning. FWIW, I've never seen any utility in using range mode. If you need the extra range simply turn off AC and modulate your speed.
 
Here is my conspiracy theory :) ... It's quite obvious that the reason Tesla bundled torque sleep with Range Mode is because they were unable to achieve the promised efficiency using torque sleep alone. Realizing that most owners would not see a noticeable improvement with torque sleep and those owners would complain and write about it online (bad press), they bundled it with Range Mode. This muddies the waters enough so that nobody can exactly identify how much efficiency is gained just from torque sleep.

This crossed my mind as well. But, for certain, they're smart enough to know that some folks will inevitably take out a P85 and D and repeat the side/side tests while in range mode. The techie crew that owns these cars would not fall for a stunt like that for very long.

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My original testing was done with range mode, so, I'll have a good idea if/when I ever get the .139+ update.

And you're exactly the guy that I was thinking of, that would likely do the test!
 
Here is my conspiracy theory :) ... It's quite obvious that the reason Tesla bundled torque sleep with Range Mode is because they were unable to achieve the promised efficiency using torque sleep alone. Realizing that most owners would not see a noticeable improvement with torque sleep and those owners would complain and write about it online (bad press), they bundled it with Range Mode. This muddies the waters enough so that nobody can exactly identify how much efficiency is gained just from torque sleep.

Good theory. Or maybe they're literally at the start line for dual motor software development and something as simple as dynamically idling a motor is going to take months if not years to get right. Remember how long it took to get rear camera backup guidelines? ;)
 
Here is my conspiracy theory :) ... It's quite obvious that the reason Tesla bundled torque sleep with Range Mode is because they were unable to achieve the promised efficiency using torque sleep alone. Realizing that most owners would not see a noticeable improvement with torque sleep and those owners would complain and write about it online (bad press), they bundled it with Range Mode. This muddies the waters enough so that nobody can exactly identify how much efficiency is gained just from torque sleep.

Good theory. However, are EPA ratings with Range mode on? If so, then I think Tesla may have delivered what it promised (pending confirmation by owners)
 
I did some driving today with the new range mode on. Seems a bit more efficient. I fear its only placebo though as I have never used range mode before. Since we are all discussing theories I feel obligated to throw mine in. When the new Model X comes out its gonna to have this same type of software and motor correct? So its gonna have to be perfect or the SUV is going to incur a very large range penalty and that will no doubt hurt sales. It seems to me what we are doing now in the D is testing out torque sleep TACC etc so when the model X launches all of this is already sorted out. I know some of us dont like to think of ourselves as beta testers but imho thats what we are. I personally like being on the edge of new development and am willing to put up with a few issues. Makes ownership of the car somewhat more exciting.
 
The P85D's 100% range has been near or at the EPA rating of 253 since 6.1 version 2.0.81, which has been out for over a month (I got mine upgraded on Xmas day):

Telsa Model S P85D Range - Google Sheets

The 100% range has been there, but not the actual range. No one has seen anything close to the EPA numbers or, more importantly, P85 numbers in actual efficiency when driving.

The poster you were responding to seemed to be indicating that Tesla may have now delivered what it promised.
 
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Guys, I don't think this is the torque sleep update.

1. They will very likely mention it in the release notes, since it will be such a benefit to D drivers.

2. There's no reason for torque sleep to not be "enabled' all the time. Since motors can be turned on/off instantly and at will, I highly doubt it will be a setting. The decision that the pedal is calling for high torque, and the power getting switched on to that motor can happen in a couple of milliseconds.

Range mode has always changed the numbers a little for some. It doesn't actively preheat the battery but instead lets the battery passively heat on its own.
 
The P85D's 100% range has been near or at the EPA rating of 253 since 6.1 version 2.0.81, which has been out for over a month (I got mine upgraded on Xmas day):

Telsa Model S P85D Range - Google Sheets

This differs with what JB Straubel said in his blog. The blog lists EPA 253 and 285@65mph for the P85D with the following proviso: "Values for 85D and P85D are pending final confirmation from the EPA and use new dual motor torque sleep control software available by the end of January 2015." So not sure how anyone is getting EPA 253 without torque sleep.
 
The 100% range has been there, but not the actual range. No one has seen anything close to the EPA numbers or, more importantly, P85 numbers in actual efficiency when driving.

The poster you were responding to seemed to be indicating that Tesla may have now delivered what it promised.

Oh I am totally aware of that, trust me. I was just saying that the stated range has been around EPA ratings since late-December 2014, not that we were actually getting said range in real driving conditions :wink: so the latest update doesn't change the stated range, that's all. Now we just need an update to effectively get our P85Ds to physically reach that stated range!
 
This differs with what JB Straubel said in his blog. The blog lists EPA 253 and 285@65mph for the P85D with the following proviso: "Values for 85D and P85D are pending final confirmation from the EPA and use new dual motor torque sleep control software available by the end of January 2015." So not sure how anyone is getting EPA 253 without torque sleep.

No one is "Getting" EPA 253 without torque sleep. We're "seeing" 253 as our 100% charge range miles, but it's a meaningless number based on how the car is actually using its battery.

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Oh I am totally aware of that, trust me. I was just saying that the stated range has been around EPA ratings since late-December 2014, not that we were actually getting said range in real driving conditions :wink: so the latest update doesn't change the stated range, that's all. Now we just need an update to effectively get physically get us to that stated range!

Heh. I knew YOU knew what was happening. I just didn't want any one else to misconstrue what you were saying. (And on that note, you may want to consider rnaming your spreadsheet and getting the word "rated" in there somewhere.)
 
I find it odd that Tesla decided to go this route.

Possible dialog from Sunday's meeting at Tesla to discuss releasing the torque sleep firmware:

JB: So where do we stand with torque sleep? Is it ready to go?

Engineering Manager (EngMgr): No. Unfortunately we still have a few issues with efficiency and NVH.

JB: That is not what I wanted to hear. I promised the owners we would deliver this by the end of January, and it is already February 1st.

EngMgr: I'm sorry, my guys are working as hard as they can but we ran into these issues.

JB: We have to do something. The owners on the TMC forum are already up in arms about this and it is only one day late! Isn't there anything we can do?

EngMgr: I'm just not comfortable releasing this firmware as Normal Mode, because these issues will become obvious to everyone with a P85D. But we could make it part of Range Mode temporarily while we work on the final refinements.

JB: It's a kludge, but if that's all we've got, let's go with it. It should buy us a couple of weeks to fix the remaining issues. And tell your team that no one leaves the building until Normal Mode is nailed!