Firmware 7.0

[TexasEV]

One thing I'd like to know is: What can Tesla change in our cars without needing a firmware upgrade?
We know that things like destination charging/superchargers location can be updated without any interaction from our side.
Also, I read in another thread that Tesla has disabled AutoSteer for Hong Kong without sending any firmware upgrade...

Map updates are pushed to the car separate from firmware updates and without any user intervention. So far we've only had one.

 

[sillydriver]

One thing I am now quite sure of is that Tesla has changed AP's nag behavior. There is a particular 20 mile trip I sometimes take on interstate 66: the only time I drive on an interstate. In over a dozen legs on that road using AP it drove onramp to offramp and NEVER nagged to put hands on the wheel until a week or so ago. Since then it has nagged at least once EVERY leg (total of six). This afternoon it nagged twice on my return leg. If anything, lighting is better lately (flat light and good visibility) and traffic was not a problem. The nag may have been correlated with my getting .77 a couple weeks ago, but I'm not sure.

- - - Updated - - -

Given the autosteer speed limiting, I think 102.38.13 should be named 'Nanny State'.

102.38.13 seems like a very strange build number for a Tesla update.

 

[stopcrazypp]

This might have to do with satisfying Hong Kong restrictions on autopilot. Does Tesla do region specific updates though (so they don't have to have the same restrictions across the world)?

 

[Andyw2100]

One thing I am now quite sure of is that Tesla has changed AP's nag behavior. There is a particular 20 mile trip I sometimes take on interstate 66: the only time I drive on an interstate. In over a dozen legs on that road using AP it drove onramp to offramp and NEVER nagged to put hands on the wheel until a week or so ago. Since then it has nagged at least once EVERY leg (total of six). This afternoon it nagged twice on my return leg. If anything, lighting is better lately (flat light and good visibility) and traffic was not a problem. The nag may have been correlated with my getting .77 a couple weeks ago, but I'm not sure.

I don't think that's what most on TMC are using the term "nag" to describe, as it applies to the Auto Steer.

I believe when people talk about a "nag" being applied to Auto Steer, they are referring to some sort of timed requirement that people place a hand on the wheel.

It sounds like what you encountered could just be Tesla tweaking the settings a bit, and changing the sensitivity at which they are requiring driver intervention. Personally I think that's something very different from Tesla instituting any sort of a "nag" feature with Auto Steer.

 

[wk057]

But wait, people who don't update are BAD! They slow down progress! They are annoying Tesla! They are... I'm too lazy to go back to all the things you and others have said about people who reject updates.

I continue to be happy on 6.2

I never said any of those things. I was pointing out how people who reject updates could be screwing themselves. I couldn't care less about "annoying Tesla" or slowing down progress.

If they're going to release a feature, then in the next update limit it's abilities... then the solution is to not update.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm... what happened to the original pics of the autosteer limitations? Glad I saved those.

 

[Cyberax]

I actually have to explain this to you? Really??? Your post shows why Tesla needs to further restrict this. On a two lane road with oncoming traffic is exactly where you should NEVER use AP, EVER. This isn't complicated at all.

Yes, it IS complicated. I'm using Tesla AP as an additional safety net on two-lane roads all the time. By now I know it limitations so I take over before entering sharp curves or dangerously narrow lanes.

However, I try to keep the AP at all times. The rationale is simple: if I get distracted for a second without AP then there's a chance of my car veering into the oncoming lane. If I get distracted with AP then it's quite likely that nothing happens.

Besides, I found out that with AP I can focus more on "strategic" planning. I can scan the road further and wider - it already helped me once, I noticed an elk on the roadside and was able to brake before it decided to dash right across the road in front of my car. I'm not sure I would have noticed it without the AP.

 

[wk057]

Yes, it IS complicated. I'm using Tesla AP as an additional safety net on two-lane roads all the time. By now I know it limitations so I take over before entering sharp curves or dangerously narrow lanes.

However, I try to keep the AP at all times. The rationale is simple: if I get distracted for a second without AP then there's a chance of my car veering into the oncoming lane. If I get distracted with AP then it's quite likely that nothing happens.

Besides, I found out that with AP I can focus more on "strategic" planning. I can scan the road further and wider - it already helped me once, I noticed an elk on the roadside and was able to brake before it decided to dash right across the road in front of my car. I'm not sure I would have noticed it without the AP.

Yep, I do the same. I have autopilot activated almost 100% of the time on all roads that I would have otherwise used cruise control on... which is basically all roads. No reason not to. With my hands on or near the wheel, and fully understanding the limitations of the system and taking over as needed, this is certainly the safest possible operating method in all cases.

I'm not going to undo that ability because someone at Tesla decided that I should only be able to go 45 MPH with autosteer activated on some roads determined by whatever method they use to determine that.

If that restriction "feature" can be disabled by the user, even if it's behind some bold disclaimer or something, then that's fine. But I will not undo key aspects of autopilot that already took way longer than it should have to materialize in the first place after finally having received most of what I paid for. (Still waiting on summoning and such, but I don't particularly care about that)

 

[donv]

On how many divided highways is it safe to only go 45mph on? That sounds more dangerous to me...

 

[Andyw2100]

On how many divided highways is it safe to only go 45mph on? That sounds more dangerous to me...

I think the idea is that we just wouldn't use Auto Steer in those situations, which is Tesla's goal.

 

[cynix]

This might have to do with satisfying Hong Kong restrictions on autopilot. Does Tesla do region specific updates though (so they don't have to have the same restrictions across the world)?

There are region-based feature restrictions for sure. For example, we don't have the web browser or HomeLink here in Australia.

Not sure if it's necessary to limit the rollout of certain updates to a region though. It could simply be a flag somewhere in the code.

 

[sillydriver]

I don't think that's what most on TMC are using the term "nag" to describe, as it applies to the Auto Steer.

I believe when people talk about a "nag" being applied to Auto Steer, they are referring to some sort of timed requirement that people place a hand on the wheel.

It sounds like what you encountered could just be Tesla tweaking the settings a bit, and changing the sensitivity at which they are requiring driver intervention. Personally I think that's something very different from Tesla instituting any sort of a "nag" feature with Auto Steer.

I see what you mean, except the nag to put my hands on the wheel has generally occurred once near the beginning of each leg when road conditions are favorable as if to ask "are you there and in a position to put your hands on the wheel?" Yesterday it asked twice, but that was the only leg it had done that. I don't see this change as a disaster, but I am a little disappointed by it.

 

[wk057]

I see what you mean, except the nag to put my hands on the wheel has generally occurred once near the beginning of each leg when road conditions are favorable as if to ask "are you there and in a position to put your hands on the wheel?" Yesterday it asked twice, but that was the only leg it had done that. I don't see this change as a disaster, but I am a little disappointed by it.

As mentioned in the "autopilot is improving" thread, there doesn't seem to actually be anything changing with the car's software outside of firmware updates. The perceived changes can all be accounted for by one or more variables. What may seem like the same conditions to you probably aren't identical to the car. Days are getting shorter, so shadows are going to be in different positions every day. Shadows seem to have a huge effect on the AP system's ability to distinguish lanes, among other things.

So, I consider the test for change to be if the system behaviour is different at night with clear weather with no other vehicles around. So far that behavior is nearly identical in all cases. In fact, on a stretch I drove this morning I knew to the second when it was going to ask me to hold the wheel 4 out of 4 times. (Somewhat curvy 4-lane divided highway, NC 321)

 

[tomas]

Yes, it IS complicated. I'm using Tesla AP as an additional safety net on two-lane roads all the time. By now I know it limitations so I take over before entering sharp curves or dangerously narrow lanes.

However, I try to keep the AP at all times. The rationale is simple: if I get distracted for a second without AP then there's a chance of my car veering into the oncoming lane. If I get distracted with AP then it's quite likely that nothing happens.

Besides, I found out that with AP I can focus more on "strategic" planning. I can scan the road further and wider - it already helped me once, I noticed an elk on the roadside and was able to brake before it decided to dash right across the road in front of my car. I'm not sure I would have noticed it without the AP.

Rather than get angry, you should communicate this approach to Tesla. I expect they could configure it to work @> 45 if hands on wheel. It may not be an approach they have considered.

 

[ccharleb]

With the strange build# and now pictures taken down, it might be an update sent by mistake and was suppose to end up to the beta testers... like what we saw before 7.0?

 

[sillydriver]

With the strange build# and now pictures taken down, it might be an update sent by mistake and was suppose to end up to the beta testers... like what we saw before 7.0?

I totally agree that there is something very strange about it. The build number is part of it. Your theory may be the correct one. It will be interesting to see whether this restriction is actually broadly distributed. I doubt it.

 

[dirkhh]

I have a crazy idea. And you are welcome to call me crazy for it.

Can we stop the name calling and the second guessing of allowable methods of name calling and instead talk about the dreadful v7 firmware again and how much we all can't wait for the 7.1 firmware to be release with hopefully a better UI and no excessive nannying of the driver?

 

[mmccord]

I have a crazy idea. And you are welcome to call me crazy for it.

Can we stop the name calling and the second guessing of allowable methods of name calling and instead talk about the dreadful v7 firmware again and how much we all can't wait for the 7.1 firmware to be release with hopefully a better UI and no excessive nannying of the driver?

Absolutely, let's get back on track. Especially the part where driving with autosteer turned on is safer than driving without it.

 

[jeffro01]

I have a crazy idea. And you are welcome to call me crazy for it.

Can we stop the name calling and the second guessing of allowable methods of name calling and instead talk about the dreadful v7 firmware again and how much we all can't wait for the 7.1 firmware to be release with hopefully a better UI and no excessive nannying of the driver?

Okay fine. So back on topic, I have no major issues with the V7 UI. I have a few things I'd tweak here and there but overall no "major" issues. I'll admit I never had pre-V7 firmware since I just got my car so that may play into a bit...

Jeff

 

[Andyw2100]

I have a crazy idea. And you are welcome to call me crazy for it.

Can we stop the name calling and the second guessing of allowable methods of name calling and instead talk about the dreadful v7 firmware again and how much we all can't wait for the 7.1 firmware to be release with hopefully a better UI and no excessive nannying of the driver?

I think you know, Dirk, that our thoughts on version 7, before it was released, aligned pretty closely. I was pretty vocal about wanting to keep the combined power meter / speedometer, and about how the new power meter showing so much less information was really a huge step backwards. Even so, when 7.0 was released, I decided to go ahead and take the update. I'd still prefer a combined power meter / speedometer, or at least a better power meter, but even so, I'm glad I did accept the update. I think the trade offs have been worth it. The new graphics for the parking sensors are quite cool, and I think the blind spot detection is improved. The Auto Steer beta is very good and very useful.

I'm still hoping the power meter we saw in some of the slides, or something like it is on the way in 7.1.

I think if and when you do take the leap, Dirk, you may find it's not as bad as you expect.

 

[supratachophobia]

Oh come on... You shouldn't be using auto steer on ANYTHING but a divided highway without cross intersections, so in other words a freeway. Due to people doing stupid stuff with AP, Tesla\Elon really had no choice but to introduce very fair and logical restrictions to the functionality to keep people from doing something stupid that could potentially be disastrous for the brand from a public perception perspective. It wouldn't have been an issue had there not been threads like "autopilot tried to kill me" and others like it with people using AP in situations where it clearly wasn't made for.

This response from Tesla is very reasonable IMHO and refusing to update so you can continue to use it in an unsafe and unsupported manor is exactly why Tesla should be forcing these updates, and not giving you a choice.

It's just like the people who want to stay on 6.2... I mean seriously people, really??? Especially if you have an AP car...

Jeff

In Going to agree with you that reasonable limitations should have / needed to be imposed. I'm really disappointed if it was misuse that led to this, bit I also understand that in some two lane roads with intermittent shade, it was downright dangerous if you weren't paying close attention.