Firmware 7.1

[BertL]

Not directed any anyone individual. Just a general thought / observation / personal hope:

As some owners now begin to hold-off applying firmware updates for fear of (in their opinion) negative changes to AP, I appreciate their POV, but hope the subject does not become another distracting and repetitive side-bar to the generally more useful insights found here and in related threads -- like was the case with V7 UI changes some others took issue with, stopped accepting firmware updates, and told us about over and over and over across TMC. It's when I learned what an ignore list was for. In my perfect world, unless there is significant new observations or input, folks would say it once, do what they need to do, and let the rest of us move on -- or given TMC elects to have such broad subject mainstream threads like this one, perhaps create a separate thread for like minds to discuss a more specific thought as much as they desire.

To each their own with their own MS decisions. Peace. Me? I plan to continue applying each and every update I'm sent for the good and possibly bad that may involve, as I decided I'd do before ordering my MS last Fall.​

 

[Bet TSLA]

Thanks NOLA_Mike. I really wish Tesla would advertise bug fixes in their release notes so we know what was completed. As a software engineer myself, I know the value of a well-written release note document.

I understand that enumerating the bug fixes that were done could be alarming to most people -- but still.

It will also make bug fixes appear more slowly. Not a trade-off that serves Tesla or its customers well. Personally, I'm a software geek who would love to pore through all the change log details, but I recognize that satisfying my curiosity just isn't in anybody's best interest.

I am heartened that Tesla doesn't make poor business decisions in response to pressure from people like me.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Along those lines, it would be a colossal PR disaster for Tesla to unilaterally disable AP without any press release or announcement or any sort of damage control well in advance of turning it off.

I don't have AP, so I don't have a dog in this race, but I really do not think Tesla would ever disable AP in any car, ever. They might enable more nag screens or more aggressive features to make sure people aren't treating it like autonomous driving, but they won't just turn it off one day.

 

[TaoJones]

Blind faith aside, here's the other side of the coin:

The failure to provide release notes for each release does not inspire confidence.

Finding out by accident what may or may not have changed is not optimal.

If there's nothing to review before applying the patch and nothing to review after applying the patch, then why do I need to be involved in applying the patch at all? Just push an alert to the car afterward to tell me that there may or may not have been changes of an undisclosed nature.

The simple line, "Minor bug fixes and enhancements", often seen with many iOS and Android app updates, has value; it clarifies that you are unlikely to experience any significant functionality changes.

We shouldn't have to guess, in other words. More importantly, SvCs shouldn't have to guess. Blind faith is fabulous, but it doesn't pay my liability insurance premium. We as early adopters tolerate the risk just fine. For the Model 3 effort, I would expect that the simple line referenced above will quietly find its way into an alert window both prior to and after the OTA install process. No opt-out, as obviously if Tesla makes an update available for your car, the expectation is that you will install it.

In the end, best practices exist for a reason. Adding a simple line directly before and after the install for review so you know what you're not getting, at the least, and know what to not expect, at the least, is a cheap and easy win for Tesla.

 

[mkspeedr]

I am doing the current update now. I will most likely drive 175 miles today so I will see if there are any changes.

 

[msnow]

Blind faith aside, here's the other side of the coin:

The failure to provide release notes for each release does not inspire confidence.

Finding out by accident what may or may not have changed is not optimal.

If there's nothing to review before applying the patch and nothing to review after applying the patch, then why do I need to be involved in applying the patch at all? Just push an alert to the car afterward to tell me that there may or may not have been changes of an undisclosed nature.

The simple line, "Minor bug fixes and enhancements", often seen with many iOS and Android app updates, has value; it clarifies that you are unlikely to experience any significant functionality changes.

We shouldn't have to guess, in other words. More importantly, SvCs shouldn't have to guess. Blind faith is fabulous, but it doesn't pay my liability insurance premium. We as early adopters tolerate the risk just fine. For the Model 3 effort, I would expect that the simple line referenced above will quietly find its way into an alert window both prior to and after the OTA install process. No opt-out, as obviously if Tesla makes an update available for your car, the expectation is that you will install it.

In the end, best practices exist for a reason. Adding a simple line directly before and after the install for review so you know what you're not getting, at the least, and know what to not expect, at the least, is a cheap and easy win for Tesla.

I'd need a little more detail than "minor bug fixes". Categories like "improvements to range algorithm", "navigation accuracy" etc would be useful.

 

[BertL]

...If there's nothing to review before applying the patch and nothing to review after applying the patch, then why do I need to be involved in applying the patch at all? Just push an alert to the car afterward to tell me that there may or may not have been changes of an undisclosed nature.

Agree with most of what you say, including there being value in even a simple "squashed minor bugs in something-or-other" statement in release notes if more info were not provided (which I of course would prefer.)

...not to sidetrack your broader thought, but to this specific part of your comment, I believe Tesla needs to ask the owner to install the update. The issue is the updates can take a significant amount of time (1hr+) to install and your vehicle is unusable and the process cannot be interrupted for the duration. In my case, I now have only my MS, and I schedule updates when I am 99.9% sure I won't need to go anywhere for a couple hours, and hopefully an emergency will not arise.

 

[commasign]

They may introduce themselves to liability if they publish too much detail about bug fixes for autopilot since fixing something is an acknowledgement that there was a problem. I.e. If a bug fix addresses an autopilot issue that resulted in or contributed to someone's car accident, lawyers will have a field day.

 

[TaoJones]

I'd need a little more detail than "minor bug fixes". Categories like "improvements to range algorithm", "navigation accuracy" etc would be useful.

Agreed. Once the work has been tested, it takes no time at all to provide those useful pieces of information - assertions/FUD to the contrary above aside.

The minimalist case above (one line that provides value as much or more for what it does *not* say as for what it does) is indeed the epitome of a baby step. A start. Anything would be better than copying over the release notes (see single Summon reference in 2.26.102, for example) from some previous release.

The information we get from Ingineer's posts is helpful because at least it may indicate, dependencies aside, what subsystems *haven't* been modified.

The level of detail you reference would be well-received by the Model 3 crowd, and again, once the QA is done, takes almost no time at all to include.

 

[Bet TSLA]

I'd need a little more detail than "minor bug fixes". Categories like "improvements to range algorithm", "navigation accuracy" etc would be useful.

Claiming this is what you would like without any indication of what you would pay for it is fairly meaningless. Yeah, I'd like unicorns and rainbows with every update too, if they're free.

So how much is it worth to you to have release notes? Two days of delay per typical release? A week? 5%? To me any delay would be a loss, and anybody who thinks release notes come for free is kidding herself. Just consider the words "vetted by legal".

 

[JenniferQ]

Help me out here. I just received a notification of a f/w update available, but have been traveling through Yosemite Park and Valley the last couple of days and even at my hotel there is no data available or wifi to connect to. So how exactly did the car download the latest version with no connection at all? I thought from what I've read on here that the notification appears once the latest version has been downloaded. Has it taken a whole week in jigs and jags throughout spotty service to download packets and finally it's done?

On another note, AP was stellar all through the park. There are newly painted lines on the roads, and with the speed limits and AP limits, I was able to serenely enjoy being driven Disney-like through the majestic scenery and was able to enjoy every bit of it without having to worry too much about the road. And when speed limits changed, as they often did coming into slower areas, AP kept me right on track. Yes, I did keep my hands on the wheel mostly, and yes, I did long for that BIG X picture window. Other than that, thank you Elon for your vision.

 

[TaoJones]

One way to dispel FUD is with transparency, and with experience. Having seen release notes prepared and released, including with the fearsome loop(s) through legal, the level of detail referenced above is relatively straightforward. Half a day, tops, as the default is *one line*. Keep in mind that many owners don't even get every release; ergo, the opportunity cost is low by default.

---

Dear Tesla,

How long does it take to vet existing release notes?

How long would it take to vet "Bug fixes and minor enhancements."?

Cheers,

Yer customers

---

This doesn't have to be hard.

 

[Bet TSLA]

So how exactly did the car download the latest version with no connection at all?

It didn't. There are places in the Valley that get data signal, notably at Tunnel View. Spend any time there?

 

[JenniferQ]

It didn't. There are places in the Valley that get data signal, notably at Tunnel View. Spend any time there?

Aha! Got me. Yes, and even tried to hike up to Inspiration Point for the best view so I was there a while. It was hot! Thanks for the insight.

 

[brec]

Sillydriver, I have exactly the same concerns and feelings. You are not alone. Even though I fear loss of autopilot functionality, I am nevertheless downloading the update. Fingers crossed that I don't regret it. [Emphasis added]

Assuming you received the update-available notice and then started the process, what you're doing is installing the update which was already downloaded.

This is not mere harping on terminology: it's a point of information I hope some may find useful, as I did when I learned it.

 

[TaoJones]

Help me out here. I just received a notification of a f/w update available, but have been traveling through Yosemite Park and Valley the last couple of days and even at my hotel there is no data available or wifi to connect to. So how exactly did the car download the latest version with no connection at all? I thought from what I've read on here that the notification appears once the latest version has been downloaded. Has it taken a whole week in jigs and jags throughout spotty service to download packets and finally it's done?

On another note, AP was stellar all through the park. There are newly painted lines on the roads, and with the speed limits and AP limits, I was able to serenely enjoy being driven Disney-like through the majestic scenery and was able to enjoy every bit of it without having to worry too much about the road. And when speed limits changed, as they often did coming into slower areas, AP kept me right on track. Yes, I did keep my hands on the wheel mostly, and yes, I did long for that BIG X picture window. Other than that, thank you Elon for your vision.

I experienced the same things during a recent trip, and then learned a bit of a lesson.

Was parked at Otter Cliff in Acadia NP (Bar Harbor/Mount Desert Island, Maine). No connectivity to the car there and maybe a bar of Edge (2G) to the phone. Up pops the yellow alarm clock.

So I figure, hey, in here for a bit, and applied the update. The car was not a happy camper, I've noticed, when away from connectivity for awhile - 4 levels deep in a parking garage, out in the boonies, same thing - odd error messages. Sometimes scary error messages - such as "Update failed - Call Tesla" or similar, with a dead car that won't start. That ain't fun in the middle of a NP, although in fairness Acadia is at least within walking distance of a town. Fortunately, a couple of restarts later and all was well.

So l've learned, and had I been thinking/paying attention this would have made sense anyway, to not apply updates unless there's some connectivity - fewer error messages that way.

As for AP, I too was pleasantly surprised especially during multiple loops through Yellowstone during the same trip. Likewise found that both TACC and Autosteer enhanced the in-park experience. TACC was helpful during bisonjams, and Autosteer did an admirable, if far from perfect job on sketchily-marked 2-lane park roads. Definitely monitored speed, which is somewhat of an unsung feature of Autosteer.

Regarding connectivity, it doesn't take much to get an update. Meaning that if you were at a high point in the park, sometimes there's enough of a signal to be sufficient. Maybe review a cellular coverage map of Yosemite to see if there were some opportunities. Yellowstone is woefully deficient in terms of coverage and it's very much on purpose, as it turns out. But still, there are a few (5) designated spots plus some high points. Not at the main hotels, which is amusing.

Haven't been to Yosemite yet, but am glad to know that it is an AP-friendly NP .

 

[msnow]

Claiming this is what you would like without any indication of what you would pay for it is fairly meaningless. Yeah, I'd like unicorns and rainbows with every update too, if they're free.

So how much is it worth to you to have release notes? Two days of delay per typical release? A week? 5%? To me any delay would be a loss, and anybody who thinks release notes come for free is kidding herself. Just consider the words "vetted by legal".

I think we have had this debate before right? In any case there are ways to word things to avoid that but yes, if I had to wait an extra day to find out what was done in this *general* way I would. Apple, Microsoft and many, many other serious companies have figured it out.

 

[gpetti]

My X failed the update twice and now has loaded 2.26.150. I wonder if I will gat another update to 2.28.19 later. My S has installed 2.28.19.

 

[BertL]

My X failed the update twice and now has loaded 2.26.150. I wonder if I will gat another update to 2.28.19 later. My S has installed 2.28.19.

Unsure is there is anything going on unique to your MX. You may want to check the MX forums just in case, and you can always send an email to Tesla or give a ring to your SC. Within a day or so, they can push an update to you or assist if there is some unique problem your MX has encountered. Good luck.

 

[thegruf]

My X failed the update twice and now has loaded 2.26.150. I wonder if I will gat another update to 2.28.19 later. My S has installed 2.28.19.

I would do a system reboot to ensure everything is clean