-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Soolim
Member
Anyone in Canada got the 2.12.22 with summon working yet?
- - - Updated - - -
- - - Updated - - -
Oh no, we can't because Canadians don't have summon yet.:tongue:
green1
Active Member
Of course if you drive a normal car with cruise control and pass out our die, the car crashes, and everyone thinks that's normal, yet you add some steering to the mix, make it many times safer, and suddenly it's a problem?
Sorry, I don't buy it. If you let go of the wheel on a car that can't steer itself it doesn't stop the cruise control, and in that case you know there will be problems, seems that with no nag at all the Tesla system is still a long way ahead of that.
Sorry, I don't buy it. If you let go of the wheel on a car that can't steer itself it doesn't stop the cruise control, and in that case you know there will be problems, seems that with no nag at all the Tesla system is still a long way ahead of that.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Think about it for a second. If someone passes out at the wheel, it is almost certain that person will hit, grab, fall onto, or otherwise torque the wheel, disengaging AP. One less justification for the nag. The only one that holds water right now is when confidence of the upcoming road is low. But there is certainly no need for a timed nag.
jeffro01
Active Member
Oh for the love of... Your stance is quite frankly, ridiculous. While it's 100% up to you how you operate your car and what features you chose to use, not using AP because you are occasionally asked to hold the wheel (which you should already be doing per the guidance given to you by Tesla to begin with) just doesn't make any logical sense at all to me.
AP is AWESOME and refusing to use it, while up to you entirely, simply because you're occasionally asked to hold the wheel just screams petulant child to me.
Jeff
- - - Updated - - -
I disagree, there is no certainty at all how the disabled driver may "fall". If your using the feature the way you're supposed to there is no nag because your hands are never off the wheel... The nag is entirely there to make sure you're in control of the car and paying attention to what's going on. With the current sensor suite and capabilities, there is always going to be nag if you choose to ignore the guidance Tesla is providing to keep your hands on the wheel.
Jeff
It's not "occasionally", but every 2-3 minutes. And it's not "hold the wheel" but "apply quite significant torque". I _love_ all kinds of automation but I was close to just using TACC on Monday when I had to drive 200 miles on straight roads with 7.1.
jeffro01
Active Member
We have different meanings for the words "occasionally" and "significant" it would seem. The rare few times I see the nag come up, and it's rare for me probably because I keep at least one finger or two on the wheel almost at all times (95%+), all I have to do is grab the wheel with a very slight jiggle and it goes away.
As much as I want to get on my soap box regarding my feelings on holding the steering wheel like you're clearly supposed to, I've said my piece on this a few times before and there's no sense rehashing it now. Such is life...
Jeff
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
It's all well and good to talk about how Tesla is now saying our hands should be on the wheel at all times anyway, so the nag should not be an issue, but let's remember that that is not how the car was demo'd at the D event. The test drivers all showed how the car was driving with their hands completely off the wheel. The expectation was that the driver would be able to do what the test drivers at the D event were doing.
Videos, including one of Elon Musk, if anyone needs reminders:
Hands-free at :38.
Hands-free at :50.
And finally, Elon Musk:
Hands-free at 2:01.
If this is not how the car was intended to be driven why demo it this way?
Last edited by a moderator:
jeffro01
Active Member
And your point is??? When you enable auto steer it clearly tells you, in clearly understandable wording, that you are to keep your hands on the wheel at all times and be prepared to take over at all times. You get a similarly worded warning each and every time you activate auto steer. Not a single video you posted is relevant so far as I'm concerned, clearly you disagree.
That's fine, lets simply agree to disagree and move on from it. I'm tired of reading all the whining and moaning about nag and I'm even more tired of trying to counter act it to the point of letting the whining and moaning win. It's simply not worth it.
I'll continue to use the feature as Tesla has officially presented it to me, others can make their own choices and rationalize them however they choose.
Jeff
EDIT: I want to be clear that I also occasionally take both hands off, I have no problems admitting that as I'm not perfect. The times where I have, for one reason or another, I do see the nag eventually (never paid attention to how frequently), but it has yet to bother me in any way, shape, or form...
Last edited:
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
My point is the following: You were defending Tesla's implementation of the nag as justified because according to Tesla we're supposed to keep our hands on the wheel anyway. My point is that isn't really a valid defense, since the product they delivered was not supposed to require hands on the wheel.
Maybe it wasn't "supposed" to Andy but anyone who has used it has run into situations where it suddenly did something unexpected and you needed to have your hand on the wheel. That may not be what you or any of us expected but its needed in this implementation and Tesla called an audible.
You probably drive on roads without a timed nag.
And I repeat that I _do_ hold my hands on the wheel, except that I do it too lightly for AP to register.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
You say Tesla called an audible. I say they failed to deliver (AGAIN) on what they promised. Tomato, tomahto I guess.
Perhaps some of this thread should get split off to 7.1 AutoPilot Nag ?
In any case, if the purpose of the timed nag were in fact for the car to know if I'm alive, then any other input only accessible to the driver should reset the timer. Well, let's go through that list. Changing lanes does not. Changing set speed does not. Using the steering wheel controls (without applying torque to the wheel) does not. Operating the drive side window/mirror controls does not. Applying additional acceleration using the accelerator pedal does not. Moving the steering wheel with the adjustment stalk does not. Adjusting the driver seat does not.reading scre
All of the things I've listed are definitely simpler, programatically, to detect, yet the car will still nag you every few minutes on certain roads regardless of confidence. Based on this and the above, the timed nag must NOT be about an "I'm alive" check.
In any case, if the purpose of the timed nag were in fact for the car to know if I'm alive, then any other input only accessible to the driver should reset the timer. Well, let's go through that list. Changing lanes does not. Changing set speed does not. Using the steering wheel controls (without applying torque to the wheel) does not. Operating the drive side window/mirror controls does not. Applying additional acceleration using the accelerator pedal does not. Moving the steering wheel with the adjustment stalk does not. Adjusting the driver seat does not.reading scre
All of the things I've listed are definitely simpler, programatically, to detect, yet the car will still nag you every few minutes on certain roads regardless of confidence. Based on this and the above, the timed nag must NOT be about an "I'm alive" check.
No there is a point here. You can crash into something nearly instantaneously with bad steering input. Steering is therefore objectively more risky than controlling throttle input.
green1
Active Member
If you let go of the wheel in a car without autopilot you crash. If you let go of the wheel of a car with autopilot you might crash, or you might not. Which is riskier? Why does a car with autopilot need to see if you're still there, but a car without it can just let you crash?
Well not really. The car tends to go straight, and on properly banked roads it will tend to take turns. Even when the car isn't keeping up you're drifting slowly. They put the rumble strips on both sides of the road for a reason. Autopilot on the other hand gives active input. It can easily steer you into a barrier in milliseconds.
If it was easy, it would have been done a long time ago.
I don't own an AP S, but got to use one for about 40 minutes today. There was no "nag" (timed or otherwise) on the Southern California freeway I was on and the latest firmware seems much smoother than what I drove just 2 months ago. I was impressed.
green1
Active Member
If that were actually the case (it actually is nowhere near!) We would have far fewer people driving in to the ditch when they fall asleep at the wheel.
Muzzman1
Active Member
Similar threads
