Firmware 7.1

[wk057]

I thought at one point you had written that there were no time-based nags in the AP code, based on your observations and analysis. So are the "pointless nags" you mentioned above non-time-based, or were time-based nags added after you wrote that, or did I just misunderstand something you wrote which I now cannot find, buried in hundreds of forum postings? (Right now I'm thinking the latter.)

Thanks for a clue-by-four...

wk057 later found that there are time based nags, but only on certain "classes" of road. The car assigns each road a class, where the best ones don't get a time based nag, but all others do. The lower level the road, the more frequent the nag.

Correct.

Basically the only nag I don't consider pointless is the "TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY" one. There are some "Hold the steering wheel" nags that are confidence based (where autopilot is pretty sure it's OK, but wouldn't mind reassurance that the driver is alert), and those are rather infrequent... so I'm cool with those I suppose. The others are timed only-to-annoy-the-driver nags. Those I think are pointless and pretty much negate the benefits of the tech by making the me not even want to use it.

I don't know who thought that timed nags based on road class (or any timed nags for that matter) were a good idea... but I'd like to have a chat with that person.

 

[AWDtsla]

Basically the only nag I don't consider pointless is the "TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY" one.

Have you found out if AP disengages in this case, or simply does the alert and continue to *try* to drive? It's pretty hard to get a handle on this behavior as a normal driver.

 

[green1]

Have you found out if AP disengages in this case, or simply does the alert and continue to *try* to drive? It's pretty hard to get a handle on this behavior as a normal driver.

On my car it's quite obvious that it completely disengages, the steering goes limp, the acceleration stops, the car acts as if it's coasting wherever it wants. I'd be quite surprised if anyone finds differently!

 

[MarcG]

Can anyone with 2.12.22 check whether the "quick select" button at the top-right corner of the Media app is back with this release?

It was removed in a previous 7.1 release (can't remember which one at this point) to the chagrin of many owners such as myself.

See below for what it used to look like:

 

[LetsGoFast]

Someone in the thread about the feature dropping out reported that it still isn't there.

 

[AWDtsla]

On my car it's quite obvious that it completely disengages, the steering goes limp, the acceleration stops, the car acts as if it's coasting wherever it wants. I'd be quite surprised if anyone finds differently!

Everytime it happens to me it's at a point where I really need to take over, not enough time to see if it actually disengaged.

 

[jeffro01]

I don't know who thought that timed nags based on road class (or any timed nags for that matter) were a good idea... but I'd like to have a chat with that person.

To me it's a safety issue. The car has no way of knowing if your alive or dead, it just knows someone\something is in the seat. While I would agree with you 100% that excessive nagging is counter productive to the adoption of the feature, I disagree 100% that nagging of any kind is unnecessary.

Or am I missing your premise?

Jeff

 

[green1]

Everytime it happens to me it's at a point where I really need to take over, not enough time to see if it actually disengaged.

Try engaging it at a stop behind another vehicle at a traffic light, about 1/3 of the time when I do that, the other car drives away faster than Model S accelerates, and I get "take over immediately" even though I'm in a straight line at slow speed. I know this was supposedly improved in 7.1, so maybe it will be harder to test.

 

[Max*]

To me it's a safety issue. The car has no way of knowing if your alive or dead, it just knows someone\something is in the seat. While I would agree with you 100% that excessive nagging is counter productive to the adoption of the feature, I disagree 100% that nagging of any kind is unnecessary.

Or am I missing your premise?

Jeff

It needs to check that I'm alive every 3 minutes?

 

[green1]

To me it's a safety issue. The car has no way of knowing if your alive or dead, it just knows someone\something is in the seat. While I would agree with you 100% that excessive nagging is counter productive to the adoption of the feature, I disagree 100% that nagging of any kind is unnecessary.

Or am I missing your premise?

Jeff

At the reveal they stated that they could handle that situation by pulling over safely if needed, and that the system would not need to nag. So either they were lying (likely) or the nag is unnecessary.

 

[AWDtsla]

Try engaging it at a stop behind another vehicle at a traffic light, about 1/3 of the time when I do that, the other car drives away faster than Model S accelerates, and I get "take over immediately" even though I'm in a straight line at slow speed. I know this was supposedly improved in 7.1, so maybe it will be harder to test.

I was doing this in city traffic to demonstrate autopilot. Simply following the car in front with no visible lane markers. It never complained.

 

[sorka]

Drat. I just realized I thought the new update could do something that it can't. For some reason i thought you could perpendicular park without being in the car which would be useful for parking between cars where you don't want to worry about squeezing out of your door. But I just realized I read the notes totally wrong. Oh well.

 

[green1]

I was doing this in city traffic to demonstrate autopilot. Simply following the car in front with no visible lane markers. It never complained.

As I said, likely it's better now in 7.1, but in 7.0 it did have this issue, maybe I exaggerate by saying 1/3 of the time, but it is enough that if you do it routinely you will find it eventually.

 

[jeffro01]

At the reveal they stated that they could handle that situation by pulling over safely if needed, and that the system would not need to nag. So either they were lying (likely) or the nag is unnecessary.

How would the system know without nagging? All it knows is someone\something is in the seat, that is all. Unless your car came with vital sign monitoring equipment that mine didn't come with... I have tested this, I have let the nag go and it safely stops the car. Again, without nag how would it know?

Jeff

- - - Updated - - -

It needs to check that I'm alive every 3 minutes?

While I have yet to see any indication of a timed nag, I don't think every 3 minutes is inappropriate at all. A lot can happen in 3 minutes.

I'm not trying to justify 3 minutes being too frequent or not frequent enough, I'm just saying I don't think that's a problematic number.

Jeff

 

[green1]

How would the system know without nagging? All it knows is someone\something is in the seat, that is all. Unless your car came with vital sign monitoring equipment that mine didn't come with... I have tested this, I have let the nag go and it safely stops the car. Again, without nag how would it know?

Maybe it would know because it waits to nag until it actually has a question, and then if you don't respond it pulls over safely. Instead of assuming every 3 minutes that you MUST have died on it!

 

[Andyw2100]

Maybe it would know because it waits to nag until it actually has a question, and then if you don't respond it pulls over safely. Instead of assuming every 3 minutes that you MUST have died on it!

But as I believe you know, it doesn't actually pull over safely, because it can't. (It can't change lanes safely.) So instead it just slows down, with the hazard lights on, and comes to a dead stop, even if it happens to be on a 70 MPH highway. To me this seems dangerous.

At the reveal they stated that they could handle that situation by pulling over safely if needed, and that the system would not need to nag. So either they were lying (likely) or the nag is unnecessary.

Are you sure this was said at the D event? I've watched that video many times, and I'm not sure that it was.

 

[green1]

But as I believe you know, it doesn't actually pull over safely, because it can't. (It can't change lanes safely.) So instead it just slows down, with the hazard lights on, and comes to a dead stop, even if it happens to be on a 70 MPH highway. To me this seems dangerous.

I'm going based on what they promised, it's up to Tesla to get it to work that way.

Are you sure this was said at the D event? I've watched that video many times, and I'm not sure that it was.

Some of the things were said in media interviews instead of at the event itself

 

[jeffro01]

Maybe it would know because it waits to nag until it actually has a question, and then if you don't respond it pulls over safely. Instead of assuming every 3 minutes that you MUST have died on it!

Yep, not going to take this any further. You've dug your heals in on this one to the point where unless someone agrees with you completely, then there wrong. Waiting, potentially 10s of miles, to check for an active driver to me is far more unsafe than periodically checking for one on it's own.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree.

Jeff

 

[green1]

Yep, not going to take this any further. You've dug your heals in on this one to the point where unless someone agrees with you completely, then there wrong. Waiting, potentially 10s of miles, to check for an active driver to me is far more unsafe than periodically checking for one on it's own.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree.

Jeff

I didn't promise the feature, Tesla did. It's up to them to deliver, not for me to speculate on how.

 

[sillydriver]

To me it's a safety issue. The car has no way of knowing if your alive or dead, it just knows someone\something is in the seat. While I would agree with you 100% that excessive nagging is counter productive to the adoption of the feature, I disagree 100% that nagging of any kind is unnecessary.

It needs to check that I'm alive every 3 minutes?

So if you are dead the nag will resurrect you so you would then be able to drive the car?

Tesla's lawyers may have convinced management that nags are necessary, but I no longer use AP after the 7.1 release (no great loss, given how much fun the car is to drive) and I no longer mention AP in my evangelical pro-Tesla pitch to non-owners.