Firmware 9 in August will start rolling out full self-driving features!!!

[Bladerskb]

I notice a lot of people use "divided highway" which can sometimes mean the same as "freeway = expressway" but not in all cases. Maybe if you added "limited access" it would help to clarify the difference. But there can be a major difference. We have many many "divided highways" where I live that are not freeways in the way Tesla defines them. See Enhanced Autopilot below.

I believe the major difference between EAP and FSD is where it is used. I.E. On a freeway or on surface streets. To do what is described for EAP for On-Ramp to Off-Ramp (Freeways) it will require a lot of "self driving" to accomplish that. I do not believe there is a difference between EAP and FSD while they are used on a freeway. Some think that if you only have EAP and on a freeway then you are still in full control but if you have FSD then you are not in full control but the car will be doing the exact same thing. I am not one of those. But, while not on a freeway then you will need FSD for pretty much everything like the car using Navigation to go from point A to point B and to stop at stop signs and red lights. To me surface street driving is a major difference between EAP and FSD. So, those New features in FSD that Elon is talking about will be all about surface street driving and not freeway driving. However, there will of course be more features added to EAP for the On-Ramp to Off-ramp to work but they would not be FSD Only features.

Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval. Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time.

What happened to autosteer+ which was supposed to work in tight local roads under the umbrella of EAP?

 

[BigD0g]

@diplomat33 -- we can stop speculating. People like @BigD0g and @verygreen actually know what is going on and we'd rather have actual information rather than more useless speculation.

The fact you just got your car is great but that doesn't change Tesla's development or timeline (or lack thereof) for EAP features much less FSD capability.

Apparently we're all in for a disappointment come August. Best to acknowledge that and not turn to spin. Tesla needs to own up to the owners who bought EAP/FSD. We're only fed fairy tales by Elon Musk and I, for one, have had my fill. Its past time for Tesla to deliver what they've touted for nearly 2 years.

Full disclosure I have no v9 software, it’s pure speculation on my part based on the latest .26 release and its changes and no leaked betas yet of v9 and august is right around the corner.

I’d imagine with such a monumental release they are going to have a beta period with those users.

 

[diplomat33]

@diplomat33 -- we can stop speculating. People like @BigD0g and @verygreen actually know what is going on and we'd rather have actual information rather than more useless speculation.

The fact you just got your car is great but that doesn't change Tesla's development or timeline (or lack thereof) for EAP features much less FSD capability.

Apparently we're all in for a disappointment come August. Best to acknowledge that and not turn to spin. Tesla needs to own up to the owners who bought EAP/FSD. We're only fed fairy tales by Elon Musk and I, for one, have had my fill. Its past time for Tesla to deliver what they've touted for nearly 2 years.

With all due respect, I am a Tesla owner now. I can speak from direct experience. I am not some fan who is just gushing about Tesla based on some articles I read. I drive a Tesla! But as an owner, I still have the right to speculate about the future too if I want. it's called expressing an opinion. I do agree that an overly optimistic speculation is not useful but neither is negativity. Maybe you are just setting really low expectations for yourself so that you won't be disappointed but acting like it is a "fact" that EAP will never get better and no self-driving will ever happen and Tesla should just refund our money now and admit that FSD is hopeless is not helpful at all.

It is silly to dismiss future updates before they even happen just because some posters found some code and you think it means that the updates are going to suck. That's your speculation too!

The best thing to do is not set any expectations at all but wait and see and judge the updates when they actually happen. That way we can judge the updates based on what they actually are.

 

[rnortman]

L3 is a self driving car according to SAE, its not a driver assistance system. SAE refers to it as an "automated driving system". It refers to L1/L2 as "driver assistance system".

Nissan, BMW, Delphi, Audi, Baidu and more are all working on L4 systems and all use Mobileye.
Also I wanted to add that L3 needs the same level of perception validation and accuracy as an L4 car because an L3 car needs to recognize every scenario that it needs to hand off control to the backup driver.

No one is realistically working on L5 right now. L5 is at-least 7-10 years out, so it shouldn't even be in discussion.

I agree that L3 is self-driving-ish, but a lot of people throw L3 around pretty loosely. GM SuperCruise is often touted as the first production L3 system, despite the fact that it specifically requires the driver to pay attention at all times, which to me is not L3. Sure, it lets you take your hands off the wheel but you must remain constantly attentive. A proper L3 system lets you read a book so long as you're ready to take over within a few seconds -- which is very hard and I don't think Tesla nor current generation of Mobileye-based systems are up to the task, and I think there is a very strong argument that there will never be a true L3 system released -- we will skip from L2 to L4.

I agree that L5 is not coming any time soon, and the commercial applications for it are pretty limited, which means nobody is really working on it outside of academic contexts. L4 is where it's at. And, well, this is a claim that's going to be easy to argue about, but honestly the supposedly L4 efforts of all the major auto makers with the possible exception of Cruise are jokes -- Nissan, BMW, Audi -- and also Delphi and Mobileye, which basically make components for the auto manufacturers -- none of them are anywhere close to where Waymo is right now. Somebody else will develop the L4 technology and sell it to the auto makers. They don't have the ability to develop that stuff in-house, only to incorporate and productionalize somebody else's tech. (Also, every serious L4 contender has lidar in addition to cameras and radar.)

 

[MarcusMaximus]

What happened to autosteer+ which was supposed to work in tight local roads under the umbrella of EAP?

It’s possible I’m misremembering, but I believe Autosteer+ only talked about tighter turns, and didn’t mention local roads. And the tighter turns bit has already been there for a while now.

 

[diplomat33]

What happened to autosteer+ which was supposed to work in tight local roads under the umbrella of EAP?

I don't think it was local roads necessarily, just tight bends.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Full disclosure I have no v9 software, it’s pure speculation on my part based on the latest .26 release and its changes and no leaked betas yet of v9 and august is right around the corner.

I’d imagine with such a monumental release they are going to have a beta period with those users.

What do you mean, we are the beta testers. Snicker.... You would think there would be some odd number releases by now, but maybe Tesla knows those drift outside the intended community now and have alternatives. Rose tinted glasses currently on.

Anything remotely interesting in .26 under the covers? Nothing seems much different in my daily drive.

 

[BigD0g]

Anything remotely interesting in .26 under the covers? Nothing seems much different in my daily drive.

Nope

 

[Superendo]

It’s possible I’m misremembering, but I believe Autosteer+ only talked about tighter turns, and didn’t mention local roads. And the tighter turns bit has already been there for a while now.

EAP fails at tight turns.....


Even highway curves can be a problem

 

[chillaban]

Nope

As an aside, what's the last times we've seen neural net changes? .24 or .21.9?

 

[Electroman]

Even highway curves can be a problem

I say BS.

Show me a video of a failure on a highway curve, with decent line markings going at the speed limit

 

[Joe F]

And the tighter turns bit has already been there for a while now.

Which, he would know if he were a Tesla owner instead of a Tesla and TMC antagonist.

 

[chillaban]

I say BS.

Show me a video of a failure on a highway curve, with decent line markings going at the speed limit

Just playing devil's advocate:

It still cannot handle all of the CA-17 curves, which has a speed limit of 55 to 65 with advisory speed limits posted lower (but not always respected by the car). Some of those require turning the steering wheel close to 90 degrees to follow, which it simply refuses to do.

Same with a few small stretches of Pacheco Pass which is 65mph with no advisory speed limits, but actually driving in that lane next to the shoulder less concrete divider at 65 is fairly challenging.


But it's pretty hard now to find a true highway with curves sharp enough to foil AP2. AP2 is doing quite well at curves and you'd have a really really hard time finding any other system that comes close.

 

[Electroman]

But it's pretty hard now to find a true highway with curves sharp enough to foil AP2. AP2 is doing quite well at curves and you'd have a really really hard time finding any other system that comes close.

Exactly that was my point.

I highly doubt you would have a sharp curve or a lane shift on a highway, unless it was construction, or the highway is ending and the posted limit is reduced to 45 mph or less.

 

[Asterix187]

I say BS.

Show me a video of a failure on a highway curve, with decent line markings going at the speed limit

At least in the UK I can find quite a few. I will try to record it but its a bit difficult to do if there is oncoming traffic and i am on the wrong side of the road.

 

[chillaban]

Exactly that was my point.

I highly doubt you would have a sharp curve or a lane shift on a highway, unless it was construction, or the highway is ending and the posted limit is reduced to 45 mph or less.

For as much as people mock California as an easy driving environment.... there's still plenty of highways within 1 hour of here where AP2 (and frankly almost every Corolla/Prius driver) cannot handle gracefully.

Google Maps

Note that there's parts of I-80 near Lake Tahoe that look like this too.

But these are fairly degenerate examples. Probably 75%+ of states don't even have any highways that go through terrain like this.

 

[Superendo]

I say BS.

Show me a video of a failure on a highway curve, with decent line markings going at the speed limit

Come and drive in the Netherlands. That will change your opinion.
I had to intervene at the same spot to often.
That is an fact.

If you choose not to believe me it’s your loss.

I love my MS 75D December 2017 but it not flawless.

Eap needs a lot of improvements.
I use it a lot but know it limitations. Tight turns and high speed curves.

 

[d21mike]

It’s possible I’m misremembering, but I believe Autosteer+ only talked about tighter turns, and didn’t mention local roads. And the tighter turns bit has already been there for a while now.

It is still on Tesla's Web Site and it is under EAP Section. It does not mention freeway or surface streets. What am I missing something?

Autosteer+
With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing power, your Tesla will navigate tighter, more complex roads.

 

[BigD0g]

As an aside, what's the last times we've seen neural net changes? .24 or .21.9?

I'd have to go dig a bit, but I don't believe it was .24

 

[landis]

But these are fairly degenerate examples. Probably 75%+ of states don't even have any highways that go through terrain like this.

It is not just terrain, also locations with more history.

Many eastern Pennsylvania roads were former stage coach paths. (Like the road past my house.) One of my favorites is "Cowpath Road" which literally was a cow path towards market. Most major roads have been straightened, especially those re-designated as interstate freeways (and toll roads). Many major roads navigate hills (we call them ridges ;-) and rivers and houses. State highways are wide enough with painted lanes that EAP generally does well, though of course many tight curves are still an issue.

It may be worth pointing out that using the scroll wheel to manually adjust max speed down for upcoming curves is one way I gain 'invisible guiding hands' without constant disengage/reengage.

I've also been out exploring/driving on local roads near home where I enjoy not trying EAP.

Come and drive in the Netherlands. That will change your opinion.

I can believe it. I was just a passenger for several weeks in central England. Those roads have even more history than PA.