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Audi Q6 e-tron EV
- Thread starter Tharo
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- Electric Vehicles
jelloslug
Active Member
My experiences with German cars has been far from what you describe. Every part had weeks and weeks of lead time and the dealer experience was awful.
This may be partially why the Tesla experience is better in the U.S. and the Audi etc. is often better in Europe. It is probably better to not compare our experiences too much.
Home market advantage is real.
dennis
Model S Plaid
I went to the Audi dealership in Silicon Valley and the sales guy hadn't heard of it. His manager told him it was coming in 2018 but didn't see fit to leave his office to talk to me about it.
In contrast the local Jaguar dealer was quite familiar with the i-Pace. He took my contact info and will call me when they begin accepting deposits.
Note what is inside a major automotive OEM these days versus what isn't. Most of them have in-house ICE powertrain development and outsourced things like interior door panels. Battery cells are the critical path for any major EV adoption. Buying battery cells in the open market will is a clear indication of the lack of seriousness... when battery cell production becomes the #1 constraint, what do you think happens to the cost of the most expensive component of a BEV?
As for DCFC, just try working up the business case. You'll notice really fast that there is no profit in DCFC networks.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
"Life's Good" was their slogan for a while, but not what LG stands-for.
Yes, Jaguar has been very nicely active about the pre-registrations, more so than Audi.
Kudos to them on that!
I still think that while I like personally the I-Pace more, and in some ways Jaguar has been more active and certainly also seriously aimes for 2018, that it probably is the less important of the two objectively. I want one, but still.
It seems to me the third-party manufacturing arrangement for the I-Pace suggests it is still less full-fledged Jaguar (similar to how a big part of Bolt is LG) and less of a first step to a serious ramp-up than the Audi.
The world has seen plenty of these separate or outsourced BEV projects, e.g. Mercedes B class, Bolt and I-Pace outsourced for a significant portion, while BMW i3 was a stock-holder mandated project separate from the rest of the company strategy...
To me it seems Audi at least has an in-house, on-strategy ramp-up in their sights and the first after Tesla to do so. And that's why, from my attempt at an objective perspective, it matters more than the I-Pace (even though personally the I-Pace matters more to me).
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This is of course a very good point and much discussed. It has its points and merits. It is, of course, also the strategic Tesla narrative.
We shall see how it plays out over time and what the competition really does and what kind of alliances form.
After all, even the Gigafactory really is Panasonic for a big part. So alliances will still likely play a part...
dennis
Model S Plaid
Has Audi revealed how much of the e-tron quattro is designed/manufactured in-house vs. outsourced? For example
- battery cells
- battery modules
- battery pack and battery management system
- inverter
- battery charging (AC and DC)
- power control
- electric motor(s)
- etc.
As a point of comparison, Tesla does all of the above except the battery cells, which are made by Panasonic to Tesla's specification, and inside a Tesla-owned facility for the Model 3. For the Bolt, all of these components are supplied by LG, with the electric motor designed by GM but produced by LG.
dennis
Model S Plaid
Not really. The Gigafactory is being built and is owned by Tesla. Panasonic leases some of the space to produce battery cells according to a specification from Tesla. All of the "secret sauce" of the battery modules, temperature conditioning, battery management, inverter, etc. are designed and manufactured by Tesla at the Gigafactory.
One key differentiator between Tesla/Panasonic and everyone else is that Tesla was willing to commit to a long term contract with large volumes of batteries and Panasonic has been willing to invest the capital to be able to meet Tesla's forecast. In fact, after the 373K deposits for Model 3 were received in a month, Panasonic went to the markets to raise the capital they needed to accelerate their outfitting of the Gigafactory to be able to produce the cells for 500K vehicles in 2018. None of the other OEMs have been willing to forecast large volumes of BEVs and therefore commit to their battery suppliers for large volumes of batteries. And the battery suppliers are not breaking ground on 10's of Gwh of facilities without large scale commitments from the OEM's. Thus the onslaught of BEV's from Tesla's competitors don't represent a huge threat even if they are able to field compelling products in 2018-2020.
Have they released anything of substance of the e-tron quattro? battery size, battery type, if the quattro is a shared platform vehicle, how they are going to support the charge rate, what method the range is calculated on?
I find it very hard to believe that Audi is gearing up for a major launch in 2018 without their dealers having the ability to understanding anything of substance about the vehicle. Are they expecting tens of thousands of orders? Or is corporate going to hold the cost of tens of thousands of vehicles and then just send the vehicles to dealers?
And instead of letting the world know that VAG is serious about making amends after dieselgate they are keeping this a secret.
I'm expecting little from Audi other than a few thousand vehicles over 2018 / 2019. At best.
I don't disagree with any of that.
I also don't think Audi represents a "huge threat" to Tesla or even a threat at all. I do think they represent a serious response, though, so from a customer perspective I believe Audi will be the first company with a serious large-battery premium BEV offering that I customer can compare Tesla to and choose between them (together with Jaguar, but latter I expect to be a bit more limited in effect - though of course that might change if Jaguar follows up more aggressively than I expect). The Audi BEV volumes I expect to start more in the Model S range, than anything Model 3.
Hence this represents a threat to other ICE manufacturers (who risk being left more and more behind), not to Tesla.
It is a start. We shall see where it goes from there and how fast.
Ironically we don't know much anything about the already on sale Model 3 either.
To be clear, I expect tens of thousands. If it is just a "a few thousand" over 2018 / 2019, then I was wrong.
jelloslug
Active Member
Audi Q6 EV, if it is released, might match up reasonably well to the Model Y but at twice the price, with no Supercharging network.
Perfect for people who insist on having an Audi EV at all costs, or who are mad at Tesla for some perceived injustice but eager to give a pass to Audi/Volkswagen for a deliberate emissions cheating program that will cause 1200 or more premature deaths in Europe alone according to an recent MIT study. Study: Volkswagen’s excess emissions will lead to 1,200 premature deaths in Europe
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa5987/pdf
Perfect for people who insist on having an Audi EV at all costs, or who are mad at Tesla for some perceived injustice but eager to give a pass to Audi/Volkswagen for a deliberate emissions cheating program that will cause 1200 or more premature deaths in Europe alone according to an recent MIT study. Study: Volkswagen’s excess emissions will lead to 1,200 premature deaths in Europe
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa5987/pdf
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It is expected Audi e-tron quattro to be available much sooner than Model Y. It is possible it is even available before Model 3 for many Europeans. Not all want a big car or a second big car, but they may want a hatchback. That's why the Jaguar I-Pace and e-tron quattro interest people on this side of the pond.
Maybe in the U.S. it is different.
lux_cars
Member
I so badly want to get a Tesla but I end up leaning more towards Audi and Mercedes vehicles because they offer much more of what I want: luxury, comfort, creature comforts, fit/finish/quality, refinement (less road/wind noise) than Tesla. This would be less applicable to an e-tron Quattro class vehicle (~similar to a Q7) but these differences are really pronounced when comparing a flagship luxury vehicle like S-Class/A8 vs. Teslas.
CameronB
Member
Yes, same company...but what a difference a name makes, eh?
People associated "Goldstar" with the cheap, unreliable TVs and electronics of the 90s like you said. Even then, the company knew that branding as "Lucky Goldstar" would do them no favors, especially outside of Asia. So they shortened it to Goldstar. Still lame, but a more serious name than Lucky Goldstar. But rebranding to "LG" was brilliant. Even their slogan of "Life's Good", I believe, was meant to dissociate people from the old "Goldstar" brand.
I think many people don't even realize that Goldstar = LG. Getting away from the Goldstar moniker has helped LG transform itself into a much more successful company. Second only to Samsung in TVs. I think I read that Q1 profits and earnings were an 8-year high. Could they have made this transition from "garbage electronics" to one of the market leaders if they had branded devices as "Goldstar" or, worse yet, "Lucky Goldstar"? I think not.
This is why I'm not so interested on Mercedes at the moment:
Mercedes-Benz to unveil new compact all-electric car under new ‘EQ’ brand
More concepts, more talk. 2019 and beyond...
Audi at least has a car in camo. That's the big difference between these two.
Mercedes-Benz to unveil new compact all-electric car under new ‘EQ’ brand
More concepts, more talk. 2019 and beyond...
Audi at least has a car in camo. That's the big difference between these two.
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