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First Serious Drive in M3 LR.

curmudgeon

Member
Jul 11, 2019
258
243
Northern Ireland
@[email protected]
Charging at home with just 5% tax on energy is unsustainable - all those cheap overnight rates will be phased out

Not so. Off peak tariffs are not an introductory offer like reduced BIK. Off-peak is off-peak and will always be off-peak. Conventional power plants run at min-gen overnight, something that is very inefficient that impacts reliabilty and is most polluting. Wind is curtailed. There are GWs of surplus supply on the grid overnight and even with greater EV penetration, those EVs must be incentivised to charge during off-peak hours to use what is in effect free electricity.

Just because there will be a reduction in VED from ICE vehicles over time, it does not follow that any tax shortfall will be made up from vehicle drivers.

To meet UK carbon targets the emissions from home heating needs to be addressed. Gas costs just 4p/kwh. Electricity costs 18p/kwh. Expect the tax to go on gas and oil used for home heating while regulations tighten on building regs, where gas boilers will be banned in new builds from 2025. It took 25 years for Norway to replace gas with heat pumps, it will take a long time here, but it is on the way, so for those buying or building houses, don't think gas will be cheap forever.
 

drewpost

Member
Aug 12, 2017
509
411
Surrey, United Kingdom
Can anyone quantify how much cold wet weather degrades range?

As others have said - it depends. See below.

A a rough guide - see @GlynG post above - In summer - I get around 280wh/m. in Winter it's closer to 320wh/m

Is that in a heat pump or non heat pump car?

The heat pump appears to be seriously reducing that impact for me - at least in the temperatures we have in most of the UK.

I had an Aug 2019 delivery SR+ and sold it and upgraded to the new MIC Model 3 in March of this year. The SR+ was REALLY impacted by the cold. Especially on shorter journeys but even on longer ones with the drain of the resistive heating.

In my 2021 LR w/heat pump, I've actually noticed how much less the cold actually seems to impact the car. Especially on the longer journeys or where it's had 10-15 minutes of heating before heading off. The chart below shows this quite nicely. It's a smaller sample size as I've only had the car since Mid-March but the LR certainly seemed to be less impacted by the cold - especially 5 degrees and above. The LR w/heat pump is significantly more efficient.

Even in the lower temps, it wasn't as noticeable of an impact. In the LR w/Heat pump I was getting around 298-280 wh/mi in the 0-10 degree range and 255 in the 15-20 range. Compared to the SR+, I found that the cold weather average was 325-350 and the warmer weather was similar to the LR (which is also interesting as the LR is heavier and has an extra motor!). For clarity's sake, the LR w/heat pump has acceleration boost and not driving towards any type of efficiency and they were both on the same tyres.

In the chart below, the green line is the LR w/ Heat Pump and the blue line is the 2019 SR+ w/o heat pump

1623498414273.png
 
Last edited:

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
511
283
Scotland
Is that in a heat pump or non heat pump car?

The heat pump appears to be seriously reducing that impact for me - at least in the temperatures we have in most of the UK.


In my 2021 LR w/heat pump, I've actually noticed how much less the cold actually seems to impact the car. Especially on the longer journeys or where it's had 10-15 minutes of heating before heading off. The chart below shows this quite nicely. It's a smaller sample size as I've only had the car since Mid-March but the LR certainly seemed to be less impacted by the cold - especially 5 degrees and above. The LR w/heat pump is significantly more efficient.
Yes 2021 LR.
I don't pre-heat the car and generally do short journeys. This also may be a factor:

Screenshot 2021-06-12 at 13.35.14.pngScreenshot 2021-06-12 at 13.35.32.png
 

Peter 224

Member
May 9, 2021
252
188
Salisbury
Good to see the heat pump seems to offer better range in the typical spring/autumn temperature we have here in South Wilts.
I'm getting 208 to 260 wh/mile over a 30 mile sampe on the screen.
 

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
4,141
3,096
Scotland
Even in the lower temps, it wasn't as noticeable of an impact. In the LR w/Heat pump I was getting around 298-280 wh/mi in the 0-10 degree range and 255 in the 15-20 range. Compared to the SR+, I found that the cold weather average was 325-350 and the warmer weather was similar to the LR (which is also interesting as the LR is heavier and has an extra motor!). For clarity's sake, the LR w/heat pump has acceleration boost and not driving towards any type of efficiency and they were both on the same tyres.

Difficult to compare with different patterns of use but my SR+ (no heat pump) has never had an average in the winter of anywhere near those figures! There's certainly a big hit in low temperatures but I'm talking 270 to 280Wh/mile in winter seriously low temperatures. That's with preheating with "shore power". Similar pattern driving in summer gives around 200Wh/mile. Country roads and some small town and occasional city driving but with very little motorway in those figures (that could well be a reason for the difference).
 
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adsheff

Member
Sep 9, 2019
315
313
UK
Given the amazing weather we've had lately, take that as a best-case scenario. You can knock of 1/4 and 1/3 for windy wet winter weather.
 

jefoth

Member
Aug 30, 2019
39
34
Scotland
Setting up special tax regimes just for EV's or just for EV charging is of course a possibility. But the logical path is that we will all simply be charged on road usage. There are ANPR cameras everywhere so flicking a switch and charging p/mile is not that big a leap. If I'm not mistaken all new cars sold in the EU have been GPS enabled for a few years now for e-call regulations. Hard to believe that is not also a road charge system lurking in the background....
 
Jan 11, 2021
77
113
Bristol
I whole heartedly agree on your point about government greed.

Government greed is an interesting concept.

Taxes pay for government spending, which is demanded by the people (more money for schools, hospitals, police etc). Ultimately, it is people who are ‘greedy’ for higher living standards and who can blame them. The balance between taxes and living standards is always going to be a challenge that never pleases everyone. For some, taxes are too high, for others too low to support the spending needed.
 

ACarneiro

Active Member
Jun 20, 2019
1,392
1,117
Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Government greed is an interesting concept.

Taxes pay for government spending, which is demanded by the people (more money for schools, hospitals, police etc). Ultimately, it is people who are ‘greedy’ for higher living standards and who can blame them. The balance between taxes and living standards is always going to be a challenge that never pleases everyone. For some, taxes are too high, for others too low to support the spending needed.
I would agree if governments didn’t have the proclivity for investing in poorly researched or prepared projects or created infrastructure which nobody asked for.
For an example of the first I am thinking of the Emergency Services Network fiasco and for the second, HS2 comes to mind.
No, I think there is a voraciousness for money. They’ll work out how to spend it afterwards.
 

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
822
778
UK
I would agree if governments didn’t have the proclivity for investing in poorly researched or prepared projects or created infrastructure which nobody asked for.
For an example of the first I am thinking of the Emergency Services Network fiasco and for the second, HS2 comes to mind.
No, I think there is a voraciousness for money. They’ll work out how to spend it afterwards.
Re-elected with a larger majority, people clearly want more of this type of thing. We get to have our say next on May 2nd 2024.
 

Wol747

Active Member
Aug 26, 2017
1,052
525
Tea Gardens
>>For an example of the first I am thinking of the Emergency Services Network fiasco and for the second, HS2 comes to mind.<<
Putting it more generally, anything with any technology that is under development. Politicians seem unable to comprehend something more advanced than a new cart to stick behind the horses, just watch their faces as a machine is explained to them!
Then, of course, they are easy prey for misinformation from the promoters of the newest things which “just need a couple of hundred million” to bring to fruition.
Any multi-billion computer network comes to mind……
 

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