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First winter. Wh/mi ouch.
- Thread starter Mistake Not
- Start date
ACarneiro
Active Member
AndrewGR
Member
Unsurprising on a 3m drive, especially since you were heating everything and, perhaps, defrosting the windscreen. An ICE would have had a similarly bad ‘mpg’.
Yeah I admit I’m not using / driving to be range sensitive - but 100 miles from full charge is surprisingly (to me at least) low.
Have been averaging nearly double that in milder weather
It's all front loaded, heating the car & battery. 3 miles is going to be very iniefficient. More like 30 miles you'll start to see what your real consumption is.
Lord Farquad
2022 MYLR W/B/20s/Tow bar. Previously 2021 M3SR+
I did a 160 mile round trip yesterday in -3, sleet and rain. Single carriageway “A” road at the speed limit, with a few tasty overtakes. Climate set to 19 and heated seats/wheel in. My MYLR returned 284wh/mile and used about 66% of the battery. But the first section of road each way was up around 350-400wh/mile.
Cold cars suck energy. My old 530d Touring needed 15-20 miles to get into its stride, after which it was as economical as a 520d.
Cold cars suck energy. My old 530d Touring needed 15-20 miles to get into its stride, after which it was as economical as a 520d.
This is the 9th winter owing an EV, its always the same story. Short trips kill efficiency, but it also doesn't matter because you can refuel every night.
But if you don't have home charging, it is a real pain.
But if you don't have home charging, it is a real pain.
Amatuers:
If it's your first winter you might want to have a read of this:
teslamotorsclub.com
If it's your first winter you might want to have a read of this:
Winter with a Tesla
It’s the time of year when this forum starts to get new winter related posts. Thankfully there is already a wealth of information in the forum. We’ll take it as read that few people read the manual and the advice it contains for cold weather. Let’s start with probably the most common query as...
teslamotorsclub.com
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I don't agree. An ICE car would have been much the same - terrible consumption on a cold day over a short distance. Just your fuel now, if you have home charging and a decent Off peak rate, is 1/5th of what you used to pay for Fossil.
Sorry, but this isn't news. When I go on a long journey in Winter, and if the outside temperature isn't much below 0C, I get about a 10% increase compared to Summer. Its the set-off cost, with a cold battery and cabin, that is the problem - obviously a problem for a short journey, or for a travelling salesman that stops for an hour or so at each customer.
For a long journey that can be mitigated by pre-conditioning off the mains. You could do that for your short journeys too, but if your Off peak rate is cheap then makes more sense to pre-condition off the battery, given you won't be range-challenged.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
This is something that is glossed over by EVangelists sometimes when talking about those who don't have off street parking. I am sure you have heard it said that the average person does only 15 miles a day so would only need to charge every two weeks etc etc.
What people need to realise is that you only get 80% of the WLTP range in normal conditions. knock another 15-20% off for winter and then if you are doing say 2x7 miles a day to and from work you probably need to halve that again.
We have a Fiat500e that my wife uses for commuting. 190mile WLTP range. with her 6 mile commute ( 12 miles total per day) I don't recon we would be getting more than the equivalent of 60-80miles from a full charge in the recent cold weather.
Not a problem, Exactly what I expecting when we bought it. She likes to be warm and preheats in both directions which is one of the advantages of an EV but if we did not have a home charger that would make it very inconvenient and expensive.
Its all worth it though when you get into your warm ice free EV and drive past all the ICE owners scraping away of a morning
What people need to realise is that you only get 80% of the WLTP range in normal conditions. knock another 15-20% off for winter and then if you are doing say 2x7 miles a day to and from work you probably need to halve that again.
We have a Fiat500e that my wife uses for commuting. 190mile WLTP range. with her 6 mile commute ( 12 miles total per day) I don't recon we would be getting more than the equivalent of 60-80miles from a full charge in the recent cold weather.
Not a problem, Exactly what I expecting when we bought it. She likes to be warm and preheats in both directions which is one of the advantages of an EV but if we did not have a home charger that would make it very inconvenient and expensive.
Its all worth it though when you get into your warm ice free EV and drive past all the ICE owners scraping away of a morning
ACarneiro
Active Member
You have to admit, though, that ICE loss of range is far less of a problem than EV because ICEs heat the cabin on what is essentially waste heat anyway, whereas EVs have to divert their limited drivetrain energy to convert it to heat.
I'm fact, sometimes ICE efficiency can actually be better in the cold (so long as it's dry) because of the denser air....
Jason71
Well-Known Member
On the 3 mile journey that is the premise of this conversation there wont be any heat available from most ICE cars free or otherwise in the current weather!
AndrewGR
Member
ICEs only produce sufficient waste heat to warm the cabin once they have used it to warm up the engine, the oil and at least some of the coolant. The EV motor produces waste heat which I guess is needed to heat the battery in preference to the cabin. I assume the available blast of heat soon after ‘starting’ a Tesla (with heat pump) is produced by running the motor in a deliberately inefficient mode on a heat pump version. Whether the startup heating ‘cost’ is any different between the ICE and EV is arguable. What is certain, thankfully, is that the EV heats up the cabin much faster. Once warmed up I suspect there is usually enough waste heat from the motor to keep the cabin warm most of the time.
ACarneiro
Active Member
Point taken, I did neglect the 3-mile journey bit.
Although some ICEs do warm up remarkably quickly
Yep, the heat pump versions will take heat from the motors to warm the cabin when available, so on a long run you'll get better efficiency.
The Tesla battery/motor/cabin cooling is pretty advanced. It's one of the reasons they have such good efficiency, they try to make use of waste heat wherever possible. Good (short!) video on it here:
IIRC my BMW got 7 mpg on a similar distance run to the station on a cold morning.
It’s a nice problem to have in reality when you’re generally so efficient that any extra demand shows up clearly in the figures
I suspect that the new Highland M3 will have an increased spread of range figures for the very reason it is more efficient over all. For example the car is not going to be able to take advantage of its fabulous aero during a howling rainstorm and will likely be dragged back to a similar efficiency as an older model … if that’s the case then the gap between its WLTP and its real range would be bigger.
Winters tend not to bother me too much…but for us, it’s exactly the same in the summer…short trips use loads of electricity…but we no longer have the tyranny of the boiling hot car…every time we open the door that rush of super chilled air is such welcome relief
I will never foret when I managed to get 12 l / 100 km (23 mpg) on Toyota Avensis diesel (D4D), when it was like 2 km driving @-5C )))
usually it used to sit well below 7 l in city driving and 5.5 motorway (40-50 mpg)))
cold weather and short distances kill efficiency.
)))usually it used to sit well below 7 l in city driving and 5.5 motorway (40-50 mpg)
))cold weather and short distances kill efficiency.
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