Fog Lights Gone?

[SUPRKAR]

This is exactly what I mean Tesla has the notion that whatever they do is fine with the followers. When I give an estimate and get an OK to do a job then delete an item from my list I give the customer a credit for the deleted item. I also call to let them know what is happening. Tesla takes away features or items makes promises then just changes whatever they like. Well I don't think it is right to do things that way. I am not going to kid myself Tesla is in business to make money and that is fine just do it with respect for your customers. Don't make changes without communication. I am just waiting for the secret announcement about not making the pano sunshade or updated visors. I know these items are small in the scheme of things but if I promise to clean a customers windshield then don't that is what they remember and talk about.

 

[ElSupreme]

This is exactly what I mean Tesla has the notion that whatever they do is fine with the followers. When I give an estimate and get an OK to do a job then delete an item from my list I give the customer a credit for the deleted item. I also call to let them know what is happening. Tesla takes away features or items makes promises then just changes whatever they like. Well I don't think it is right to do things that way. I am not going to kid myself Tesla is in business to make money and that is fine just do it with respect for your customers. Don't make changes without communication. I am just waiting for the secret announcement about not making the pano sunshade or updated visors. I know these items are small in the scheme of things but if I promise to clean a customers windshield then don't that is what they remember and talk about.

I know this doesn't cover everybody getting a car now. But due note that this thread was started over 2 months ago. So there was 'some communicating' albiet it stealth communicating. It isn't like people are signing up fully expecting fog lamps now.

I do realize that Tesla has not gotten through it's backlog. And a LOT of people ordered when it did say fog lamps. But as for not making an announcement, they did. Anyone ordering a car since mid February got the communication.

 

[Longhorn92]

I know this doesn't cover everybody getting a car now. But due note that this thread was started over 2 months ago. So there was 'some communicating' albiet it stealth communicating. It isn't like people are signing up fully expecting fog lamps now.

I do realize that Tesla has not gotten through it's backlog. And a LOT of people ordered when it did say fog lamps. But as for not making an announcement, they did. Anyone ordering a car since mid February got the communication.

Let's be clear, simply eliminating something from your website is not an announcement. That being said, I signed my pre-MVPA in September, so well before their stealth, non-communication regarding any changes to the tech package. As I said above, I'm not really sure I care about the fog lights, but their lack of communication on all fronts continues to amaze me. I keep thinking they will improve, but they just don't. Amazing product (that I will hopefully receive in about a month), horrible communication plan.

 

[mknox]

I know this doesn't cover everybody getting a car now. But due note that this thread was started over 2 months ago. So there was 'some communicating' albiet it stealth communicating. It isn't like people are signing up fully expecting fog lamps now.

I actually started the thread shortly before I took delivery of my car because I noticed the feature had disappeared from the web site list of options and I wondered if my car was going to come with them or not (it did). I couldn't seem to get a straight answer from Tesla on it. Even when I took delivery of the car, all my DS would say is that he was told to "stop mentioning" fog lights or some such thing.

The excuse that they didn't work very well and so removed them doesn't sit well with me. Other threads speak of poor AM/FM reception, but if Tesla removed AM and FM from the sound system and told everyone just to use TunIn, I don't think that would go over very well either. If they didn't work well... fix them! It's not like fog lights are some radical new technology that automakers are struggling with.

 

[scaesare]

It isn't like people are signing up fully expecting fog lamps now.

I'm not so sure. The Tesla web site pictures show them. The videos show them. The cars in showrooms that you go to see what you are ordering on faith over the internet have them.

The fact is, there are lots of items on the car not specifically called out in the vehicle descriptions when you order. It's misleading to include them in depictions of the vehicle, ship vehicles to showrooms and customers with them, and then silently delete them without changing either the package price or existing marketing with them included.

I for one did not realize they were no longer included until after placing a deposit and finalizing my car.

 

[mknox]

The fact is, there are lots of items on the car not specifically called out in the vehicle descriptions when you order. It's misleading to include them in depictions of the vehicle, ship vehicles to showrooms and customers with them, and then silently delete them without changing either the package price or existing marketing with them included.

Very true. And even in cases where a fully loaded car is depicted, they will add a note saying something like "some features shown are optional equipment".

 

[Tommy]

There's an old adage " a picture tells a thousand words" and in Tesla's case, the pictures of the S peppered throughout their site, refute the "specs". A purchaser, seeing these photos and no doubt the cars on display in showrooms logically, though a fallacy, reaches the conclusion fog lights are included. They need to go back on.

 

[zdre]

For me, the fog lights were an important factor when considering ordering the tech package. The fog lights were being advertised in the web site when I finalized. If my car is delivered without them, I will be asking for them to be installed or for a partial refund of the Tech Package price.

Although some people may say that I should not complain because Tesla is providing us with free "updates", this is not true as these updates are being paid for by the service fees.

- - - Updated - - -

There's an old adage " a picture tells a thousand words" and in Tesla's case, the pictures of the S peppered throughout their site, refute the "specs". A purchaser, seeing these photos and no doubt the cars on display in showrooms logically, though a fallacy, reaches the conclusion fog lights are included. They need to go back on.

Fog lights are not visible on the pictures in the design studio. You have to look very closely to see the difference. The shiny part of the lower assembly is actually the cornering light. I have posted some pictures of the difference between the Tech package lower light assembly and the standard assembly here:
Fog light assembly: Tech Package vs. no Tech Package

By the way, does anyone know if the current tech package cars still have the matte chrome rear air diffuser or was it silently replaced with the cheap black one?

 

[ElSupreme]

Let's be clear, simply eliminating something from your website is not an announcement. That being said, I signed my pre-MVPA in September, so well before their stealth, non-communication regarding any changes to the tech package. As I said above, I'm not really sure I care about the fog lights, but their lack of communication on all fronts continues to amaze me. I keep thinking they will improve, but they just don't. Amazing product (that I will hopefully receive in about a month), horrible communication plan.

Does Macy's announce they are no longer carrying a line of clothing? Does Audi announce they are no longer offering an A4 Avant? Does BMW announce they are no longer making a 3 series wagon? No they just pull them off the website. You get a description of what you are buying today. Why bring up the fact that a MK5 VW GTI had more options and cost less than a MK6 one (with basically the exact same drive)? VW didn't see the need to when it switched over.

Tesla took off "Foglamps" off their website PREVIOUS to Feb 21 (or whenever). So yes it was communicated, announced in a press conference or whatever you wanted it was not.

I actually started the thread shortly before I took delivery of my car because I noticed the feature had disappeared from the web site list of options and I wondered if my car was going to come with them or not (it did). I couldn't seem to get a straight answer from Tesla on it. Even when I took delivery of the car, all my DS would say is that he was told to "stop mentioning" fog lights or some such thing.

The excuse that they didn't work very well and so removed them doesn't sit well with me. Other threads speak of poor AM/FM reception, but if Tesla removed AM and FM from the sound system and told everyone just to use TunIn, I don't think that would go over very well either. If they didn't work well... fix them! It's not like fog lights are some radical new technology that automakers are struggling with.

Except that Tesla still has this in their Model S Specs

200 watt, seven speaker stereo system with AM/FM/HD radio. Supports MP3, AAC, and MP4 music formats. System includes four speakers, two tweeters and one center channel speaker. Flash memory storage for up to 500 songs.

If they changed that to:

200 watt, seven speaker stereo system with internet radio. Supports MP3, AAC, and MP4 music formats. System includes four speakers, two tweeters and one center channel speaker. Flash memory storage for up to 500 songs.

I would probably not expect AM/FM radio without asking about it.

I'm not so sure. The Tesla web site pictures show them. The videos show them. The cars in showrooms that you go to see what you are ordering on faith over the internet have them.

The fact is, there are lots of items on the car not specifically called out in the vehicle descriptions when you order. It's misleading to include them in depictions of the vehicle, ship vehicles to showrooms and customers with them, and then silently delete them without changing either the package price or existing marketing with them included.

I for one did not realize they were no longer included until after placing a deposit and finalizing my car.

Well the only cars I drove/saw would go 0-60 over a second faster than the one I got! They all had leather also that I didn't get. They weren't the same color either. And they had a different headliner. And their wheels were much bigger, and much different looking.

When I was doing my test drive I asked this specific question "What is different from this car and what I would be getting?". I got some feedback, I asked specific follow up questions about things I was particular about. People need to take some responsibility for buying something site unseen.



Now saying all this. I KNOW that there are a LOT of people who had "Foglamps" on the webpage when they finalized. I think Tesla should have waited to stop producing cars with foglamps until those people were flushed out of the queue. They have a real gripe. I really like foglamps, I noticed that they were included with the tech package. I have them on my car. They don't really work all that well, mostly just widen the projected light slightly. They don't project more than 15 feet or so. But if you reserved after they took "Foglamps" off the website, and didn't ask about them. Well I don't think that is Tesla's fault. If you reserved when it did say "Foglamps" well then you are getting hosed.

 

[andrewket]

Does my post not display this for you?

Your second post shows both options.

 

[mknox]

Now saying all this. I KNOW that there are a LOT of people who had "Foglamps" on the webpage when they finalized. I think Tesla should have waited to stop producing cars with foglamps until those people were flushed out of the queue. They have a real gripe. I really like foglamps, I noticed that they were included with the tech package. I have them on my car. They don't really work all that well, mostly just widen the projected light slightly. They don't project more than 15 feet or so. But if you reserved after they took "Foglamps" off the website, and didn't ask about them. Well I don't think that is Tesla's fault. If you reserved when it did say "Foglamps" well then you are getting hosed.

That is really the thrust of my point. I did get the fog lights at the end of the day, but there was some doubt about whether I would or not, and even Tesla couldn't give a straight answer. You're right in that if they were gone when someone finalized, there is probably not much recourse.

It all still seems fishy to me. The comment from Elon about them doing more harm than good makes me wonder if they didn't meet some sort of DOT standard, and a stealthy removal was just easier than having to do a recall. It's not like they even re-designed the lamp assembly... they just put in a plastic plug where the lamp used to be. It almost seems like that would be more work.

 

[Longhorn92]

Does Macy's announce they are no longer carrying a line of clothing? Does Audi announce they are no longer offering an A4 Avant? Does BMW announce they are no longer making a 3 series wagon? No they just pull them off the website. You get a description of what you are buying today. Why bring up the fact that a MK5 VW GTI had more options and cost less than a MK6 one (with basically the exact same drive)? VW didn't see the need to when it switched over.

All of your above examples are for eliminated products or newly named products. The Model S and Tech Package were neither eliminated nor renamed.

Tesla took off "Foglamps" off their website PREVIOUS to Feb 21 (or whenever). So yes it was communicated, announced in a press conference or whatever you wanted it was not.

Again, my second point was that I signed my contract at least five months prior to the change; therefore, I feel that they should have communicated with me (and other folks with executed contracts) if they are removing items that were included when we signed. I agree with your statement below:

Now saying all this. I KNOW that there are a LOT of people who had "Foglamps" on the webpage when they finalized. I think Tesla should have waited to stop producing cars with foglamps until those people were flushed out of the queue. They have a real gripe. I really like foglamps, I noticed that they were included with the tech package. I have them on my car. They don't really work all that well, mostly just widen the projected light slightly. They don't project more than 15 feet or so. But if you reserved after they took "Foglamps" off the website, and didn't ask about them. Well I don't think that is Tesla's fault. If you reserved when it did say "Foglamps" well then you are getting hosed.

 

[Doug_G]

It all still seems fishy to me. The comment from Elon about them doing more harm than good makes me wonder if they didn't meet some sort of DOT standard, and a stealthy removal was just easier than having to do a recall.

They haven't recalled my car to remove them!

 

[mknox]

They haven't recalled my car to remove them!

Me neither. That's what I'm saying... just quietly make them go away on a go-forward basis. They didn't re-design the assembly but rather just put a plug in where they used to be. Staff are apparently told simply to stop talking about them. They're quietly removed from the features list. There's got to be more to the story than Tesla simply didn't like the way they worked. I mean, lets face it... fog lights are really just ornamental on most cars these days, so who cares if they stayed or went? A change like this would likely have cost Tesla money, not saved it (cost savings of an LED bulb vs. the whole re-design of hardware and software). Maybe it's my inner conspiratorial self coming out, but it "feels" to me like maybe there was some regulatory compliance issue, and the solution was to "make the problem go away" and live with what was already out there.

I still wonder what happens if you or I damage one in an accident, or a stone takes one out. Do we get the new fixture with the fog lamp blanked out?

 

[scaesare]

Fog lights are not visible on the pictures in the design studio. You have to look very closely to see the difference. The shiny part of the lower assembly is actually the cornering light. I have posted some pictures of the difference between the Tech package lower light assembly and the standard assembly here:
Fog light assembly: Tech Package vs. no Tech Package

They are, however, clearly evident in a number of places, perhaps the most easily seen is the "New York Meets Model S" video where they are on, and clearly different from the cornering lights. Once you realize what they look like, you realize they are in many of the pictures.

I have the high-resolution desktop wallpaper from some time ago. The version you can download today is identical. While not prominent, you can see the lamp assembly/reflector in that space, rather than the dull plastic filler cap that's been posted elsewhere. And clearly the model that I drove 9 days ago had them.

 

[zdre]

While not prominent, you can see the lamp assembly/reflector in that space, rather than the dull plastic filler cap that's been posted elsewhere.

I'm not sure how you could see the difference in the pictures when I had a hard time spotting the difference looking at the two in person side-by-side. The fog light is the little lens on the very bottom of the assembly. The chrome/mirror reflector that can be clearly seen in the pictures is the cornering light, not the fog light. The cornering lights are not there if you don't get the tech package.

 

[scaesare]

I'm not sure how you could see the difference in the pictures...

Do a binary diff on the pics from the site before and after the change. They are identical files.

 

[jomo25]

Personally, I dont see how this is any different than how they handled the stealth switch from Alcantera. They now claim it was a mistake and have changed back or offered some remedy to folks who were in the limbo state. Actually, the main difference is that the alcantera was billled as "replete", a vague word. Fog lights or not is binary. The specs still had fog lights there when I finalized.

I can live without them, but I dont think it's fair to those who finalized when it was there. Go forward, sure.

 

[JPP]

Got off the phone a few hours ago with my DS at HQ in Palo Alto. I am waiting on a multi-coat red (pickup mid-May from Fremont). I had sent her an e-mail about a few issues, including the fog lights, and copied the e-mail to George B and Ownership. She called me pretty promptly, and confirmed that forward production of the Model S will NOT have fog lamps. I politely expressed my concern and disappointment, and the lack of any communication regarding deletion of a feature that virtually any other high-end car has. I noted that there needed to be a high-level response, and that maybe George B needed to post another blog on the subject. She could not give me a reason, but was going to push my concern up the food chain and see if someone more senior could get back to me with a good answer.

About an hour later I received this e-mail from my DS:

Good speaking with you today! I received an answers about the fog lamps from my manager and have included it below. Let me know if you have additional questions.

Tesla continually evaluates ways to improve the performance, reliability, efficiency and cost of our products. With many Model S in customer's hands, we now have real world data to help inform our evaluations.

Cornering lamps, have replaced the fog lights and serve a valuable purpose in nighttime driving. The cornering light illuminate roadways, curbs, and other obstacles that may be outside the standard low beam's light path.
Cornering lamps will remain a part of the Tech Package for the foreseeable future. For the purposes of illuminating low and wide, cornering lamps are more effective than fog lamps.

 

[zdre]

Cornering lamps, have replaced the fog lights and serve a valuable purpose in nighttime driving. The cornering light illuminate roadways, curbs, and other obstacles that may be outside the standard low beam's light path.
Cornering lamps will remain a part of the Tech Package for the foreseeable future. For the purposes of illuminating low and wide, cornering lamps are more effective than fog lamps.

That's total BS! Cornering lights were always a part of the tech package even though it wasn't explicitly stated before.