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Fog Lights Gone?
- Thread starter mknox
- Start date
Do people normally drive with fog lights on all the time? Figured out that mine were automatically turning on. Have had people flash their lights thinking I had my highs on a few times and think it might have been the fog lights. I've turned them off for now. Hope the come up with a solution for the people that need them.
Some people do, some people don't. I don't think it's the fog lights that get people flashing lights at me -- even in the car's headlight pattern I can see that the fog lights are crossing, mostly pointed down at the ground and wouldn't be in people's eyes. I get flashed occasionally because the headlights are bright and most people around here aren't used to HID headlights (although that's changing with practically all new mid-level cars and trucks having it as an option).
Great - one more item they just took away. I'm waiting for my headliner replacement as well as lower dash in napa trim.
Turns out I do have the physical fog lights but they don't turn on no matter what I toggle the screen controls (I have the button visible on 4.4). Not sure the plan behind that...
Vin8027
Turns out I do have the physical fog lights but they don't turn on no matter what I toggle the screen controls (I have the button visible on 4.4). Not sure the plan behind that...
Vin8027
An open letter to Elon Musk regarding fog lights
An open letter To Mr. Elon Musk, Chairman & CEO of Tesla Motors Corp.-
Mr. Musk-
It has recently come to the attention of the Tesla enthusiast community that the fog/ground lights have been recently eliminated as part of the Tech Package for the Model S. Unfortunately, this was done “silently” without any notice to those who had an existing car deposit or a car in the build and delivery process. In addition, the picture gallery on teslamotors.com as well as your showrooms still display cars with lights included, thus those recently ordering have reason to believe they are still included.
It has been stated by one customer that the email reply (ostensibly from yourself regarding this)was:
“You're right, we should have said something. Essentially, the "fog" lights were not actually helpful in fog or in any reasonable scenario we could envision, and were actually bad in some situations. They made Model S worse, so they were deleted.”
While we certainly applaud not wanting to include anything adverse on the Model S, such lights are not useful for just foggy conditions. As ground lights, they allow more peripheral illumination and near-field fill lighting, which several customers have indicated is indeed useful. In addition, fog/ground lights are often considered aesthetically pleasing contributors to a vehicle’s appearance. Finally, the “solution” to the issue of removing and replacing the lamp with a plastic “filler cap” detracts from the beautiful appearance of the car.
You have previously expressed sentiment along the lines of: “We don’t want to build the best electric car, we want to build the best car period”, and as such you are competing in price and features with other luxury sedan makers. They have found a way to incorporate fog/ground lights in a safe manner that contributes to the functionality and appearance of their cars and we, as your customers, have come to expect such options to be available to us.
We request one of the following remedies:
We, the current and future owners of the Tesla Model S, appreciate the significant advancement in design and engineering the car represents. We desire the Model S to be “World Class” in all respects. Removing features that are easily obtainable on even lesser cars is not the way to do it.
Respectfully –
Your Ever Growing Ownership and Enthusiast Community
- - - Updated - - -
I am the author of the above letter, which I wanted to keep as applicable as possible to all owners who wish to "sign" by voicing their support for.
As such, I am outlining my specific circumstances separately here: I've been considering a Tesla Model S for a number of months. The Tech Package (including foglights) has always been an option I had decided I would order. The initial description on the web site, the pictures in the gallery , online videos, and the cars I've seen in person (as recently as a showroom visit on 4/13) have always depicted fog/ground lights.
I placed my $5K deposit on 4/5, and only recently have come to realize that the lights have been eliminated. I am a big supporter of Tesla, but doing this without any notification and without changing the price for the Tech Package is not the way to continue to engender my loyalty.
I believe Elon/Tesla did the right thing by listening to customer feedback regarding items such as the floor mats, visors, etc... My hope is that this thread is a CONSTRUCTIVE venue to provide feedback that I believe the user community might wish to provide.
Finally, lets face it... this is a high-tech bad-boy of a car. It DESERVES to look every bit the advanced machine it is... c'mon let's have the awesome looking lights back... we are paying high 5- and even 6-digit prices for these machines...
An open letter To Mr. Elon Musk, Chairman & CEO of Tesla Motors Corp.-
Mr. Musk-
It has recently come to the attention of the Tesla enthusiast community that the fog/ground lights have been recently eliminated as part of the Tech Package for the Model S. Unfortunately, this was done “silently” without any notice to those who had an existing car deposit or a car in the build and delivery process. In addition, the picture gallery on teslamotors.com as well as your showrooms still display cars with lights included, thus those recently ordering have reason to believe they are still included.
It has been stated by one customer that the email reply (ostensibly from yourself regarding this)was:
“You're right, we should have said something. Essentially, the "fog" lights were not actually helpful in fog or in any reasonable scenario we could envision, and were actually bad in some situations. They made Model S worse, so they were deleted.”
While we certainly applaud not wanting to include anything adverse on the Model S, such lights are not useful for just foggy conditions. As ground lights, they allow more peripheral illumination and near-field fill lighting, which several customers have indicated is indeed useful. In addition, fog/ground lights are often considered aesthetically pleasing contributors to a vehicle’s appearance. Finally, the “solution” to the issue of removing and replacing the lamp with a plastic “filler cap” detracts from the beautiful appearance of the car.
You have previously expressed sentiment along the lines of: “We don’t want to build the best electric car, we want to build the best car period”, and as such you are competing in price and features with other luxury sedan makers. They have found a way to incorporate fog/ground lights in a safe manner that contributes to the functionality and appearance of their cars and we, as your customers, have come to expect such options to be available to us.
We request one of the following remedies:
1) Restore fog/ground lights as part of the Tech Package (including retroactive installation for all purchasers), performing whatever redesigns necessary to eliminate any “bad situations” where they may have posed a problem.
2) Reduce the price of the Tech Package by an appropriate amount, refunding any purchasers of the package who will not receive the lights. Make the (redesigned) lights available as an option for this same amount.
We, the current and future owners of the Tesla Model S, appreciate the significant advancement in design and engineering the car represents. We desire the Model S to be “World Class” in all respects. Removing features that are easily obtainable on even lesser cars is not the way to do it.
Respectfully –
Your Ever Growing Ownership and Enthusiast Community
- - - Updated - - -
I am the author of the above letter, which I wanted to keep as applicable as possible to all owners who wish to "sign" by voicing their support for.
As such, I am outlining my specific circumstances separately here: I've been considering a Tesla Model S for a number of months. The Tech Package (including foglights) has always been an option I had decided I would order. The initial description on the web site, the pictures in the gallery , online videos, and the cars I've seen in person (as recently as a showroom visit on 4/13) have always depicted fog/ground lights.
I placed my $5K deposit on 4/5, and only recently have come to realize that the lights have been eliminated. I am a big supporter of Tesla, but doing this without any notification and without changing the price for the Tech Package is not the way to continue to engender my loyalty.
I believe Elon/Tesla did the right thing by listening to customer feedback regarding items such as the floor mats, visors, etc... My hope is that this thread is a CONSTRUCTIVE venue to provide feedback that I believe the user community might wish to provide.
Finally, lets face it... this is a high-tech bad-boy of a car. It DESERVES to look every bit the advanced machine it is... c'mon let's have the awesome looking lights back... we are paying high 5- and even 6-digit prices for these machines...
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See this post from near the top of the thread. I thought mine weren't working either, but found I was mistaken.
Hmm, this doesn't really bother me. I have not much use for fog lights. Actually, I didn't even know those were fog lights. What then is the small light on top of it? And the curved lights (LED?) right next to it? I was afraid we lost those before I saw the pictures in this topic, because the shape is nice. That would have been a lot worse. But they are still there. I won't miss the look of the fog lights, they didn't even match the design of the car. And the small plastic cover that replaces them doesn't look bad at all to me.
For those interested, I've started a thread with an open letter to Elon requesting some remedy for this. If you care about this, and would like ot voice your support, please do so on this thread: An Open Letter To Elon Musk regarding Fog Lights.
Great letter scaesare. I too wish the car came with functional fog lights. I have yet to receive my car...been patiently waiting for the Multi-Coat Red to hit the production line. My Audi A8L has both front and rear fog lights. I live in the mountains with plenty of deer and found the Audi fog lights to be very helpful thus far. I see that several Tesla owners fail to see the benefit of fog lights....that seems to me to be more of a design flaw. If the decision to stop installing fog lights in new MSs was just a temporary measure until the design can be improved, I am OK with that, as long as any new cars delivered in the meantime get retrofitted. That fact that I will pay for a tech package that is less than what was advertised is almost irrelevant compared to the body damage that can occur with a deer strike in thick fog.
I think powerful side/diagonally-firing lights would be useful as "moose lights". 
You could only use them at certain times - blinding of oncoming traffic would be brutal. But having them detect & switch automatically should be doable. Animal detection would be best, obviously - I think Volvo is working on it.
You could only use them at certain times - blinding of oncoming traffic would be brutal. But having them detect & switch automatically should be doable. Animal detection would be best, obviously - I think Volvo is working on it.
SUPRKAR
Member
Reasons for why the fog lights should be included are not important. What I see as important is they were removed without proper communication as usual with Tesla. Also when an item is deleted why is a proper credit not given. I will bring up the pano shade and visors with proper mirrors and lights as promised. I have called many many times and no one knows if the pano shade is still going to be offered or not or when the visors are planned to be upgraded. These are things I paid for and expect. I am becoming concerned that Tesla just does what it wants without thought of its customers. If GM did this it would be a big deal and I don't think they would do it. When something is advertised it should be delivered, when a change is made it should not just be deleted and kept quiet. I thought Tesla wanted to be different in a good way and I don't think what is happening is good. This is just my thoughts and I am sure there are folks that will disagree. Deliver the car as advertised and when a change is made make it known.
Whats most stupid from tesla - removing - no price chance, improving the vents - only within the cold weather packet - for €1500
Why not just deliver half a car - with no cost option, add the second half later - for a huge price increase.
Why not just deliver half a car - with no cost option, add the second half later - for a huge price increase.
I think it is wrong to remove the fog lights .. but If you read the MVPA it does say the car can be changed or modified to include or not include things
still doesn't make it ok
still doesn't make it ok
I agree and support the above message. I urge Mr. Musk to consider this broad, well thought out and balanced message. As an early adopter, happy Model S owner and with a deposit for a second Tesla in place, I would hope this issue will be resolved before my next Tesla is built.
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So, per the contract, they could deliver a vehicle without wheels or with 5 kWh less of battery?
When you sign a contract, you expect to that the end product will be substantially similar to what you ordered. I must admit that I do not know if lack of fog lights would still be considered substantially similar or not, but I would hope that any change (especially removal of an item) would be reason enough to, at a minimum, notify those folks who already signed a contract. Getting less for the same price typically does not sit well with people regardless of how little "less" is.
Personally, I'm not sure I care about the fog lights; however, given that I already signed a contract with them, I am upset that they did not notify me about the change. Maybe they have a perfectly good explanation and even possibly added something else to offset the removal of the fog lights; however, I won't know that unless they tell me.
That being said, if you haven't yet signed a contract, any changes they make should be fine since there has been no commitment yet on either side.
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