I see no reason for those with 980 rear motors to lose faith. Patience is key! 
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For AWD owners wanting a P3D-
- Thread starter Urbancowboy
- Start date
Poster by the name of zyzz says he’s got a reliable source saying there is a performance improvement coming. We don’t know if it’s paid software unlock or a free bump for some.
I see no reason for those with 980 rear motors to lose faith. Patience is key!
Which cars have the “980” vs other? Is there a link to a post or wiki on the differences?
There is a whole thread on this, but the TL;DR is:
980 rear motors: performance trims and LR AWD manufactured up to around April or May of 2019
990 rear motors: European AWD and US AWD manufactured after April or May 2019
This is based on a relatively limited sample size of TMC members who have posted pics of their motors.
Nobody has definitive data on the differences.
The end.
Thanks for the summary. My car is a June 2019 build. Hopefully 990-980 means I’m +10.
Haven't been overly following this tread since I don't think Tesla will offer to use AWDers. But then I didn't see the PD3- making a return (though it may have been all about end of quarter sales).
Why would the AWD and the Performance have different rear motors if the RWD LR is the same as the Performance in power output? From what I have read the power output is:
LR RWD rear motor: 211kW
Performance rear motor: 211kW
AWD rear motor: 188kW
Performance&AWD front motor: 147kW
Why would the rear motor be the difference if the Performance and the LR RWD have the same output/motor. It just plan looks like the AWD' rear motor is software limited. Are is this info wrong?
Also if I understand correctly (and may be wrong) each motor has its own inverter to drive it independently. If this is the case then the inverters should be the same also since the LR RWD is the same as the Performance.
Still doubtful but Tesla may see it as a easy revenue stream making AWDs into PD3-s.
EDIT: I have a sheet of Model 3 data compiled from various sources. After looking back over I see some discrepancies in the power output. So not sure where or how reliable the figures are I posted. Anyone know?
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I don’t exactly have a dog in this race, since Im a P3D- owner, but when I bought it, it sure seemed identical to the AWD series. However, I see an awful lot of emphasis placed on the part number, which I discovered is the same for silver, black, and Elon Musk etched wall chargers. There are characters below the part number that change for various iterations of similar parts. This would fit Tesla’s practice of making small design improvements to a particular part, but retain the part number to match parts diagrams. Rather than a new part number, I believe they use part versioning.
If I am correct, the part number alone should not be used to support the theory that the Performance series motors and or inverters can be the same as an AWD. The “bin sorting” method Tesla has referred to may represent motors and inverters that Tesla is willing to supply with more current and also warranty. If you question the part number theory, look up a few wall chargers on eBay or CL and look at the parts sticker on the charger boxes.
If you are a current AWD owner, what upgrade terms would you agree to in exchange for Performance spec power. Specifically, would you agree to a shorter warranty ? I would bet that an AWD could easily be software upgraded to P specs, but It could end up like over clocking the cr@p out of an Intel chip that tested and sold at low spec. As an aside, I rarely “need” all of the power the P series offers, but I was deprived of fast cars as a kid.
If I am correct, the part number alone should not be used to support the theory that the Performance series motors and or inverters can be the same as an AWD. The “bin sorting” method Tesla has referred to may represent motors and inverters that Tesla is willing to supply with more current and also warranty. If you question the part number theory, look up a few wall chargers on eBay or CL and look at the parts sticker on the charger boxes.
If you are a current AWD owner, what upgrade terms would you agree to in exchange for Performance spec power. Specifically, would you agree to a shorter warranty ? I would bet that an AWD could easily be software upgraded to P specs, but It could end up like over clocking the cr@p out of an Intel chip that tested and sold at low spec. As an aside, I rarely “need” all of the power the P series offers, but I was deprived of fast cars as a kid.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Model 3 Motors on the Tesla Parts Catalog
Furthermore, note the switchover was most likely in January 2019, not April - so far, we have no data indicating otherwise, and there are Jan/Feb build AWD vehicles with 990 motors.
MagnusMako
Member
I don't see why would the motor itself need a shorter warranty. It is literally the same exact design used for the motor in both cars. And I highly doubt Tesla would make the trade off for a lower warranty. They would either not do it at all or they would offer a performance upgrade that is within the known safe limits of the motor. Atleast that's what would make sense to me. Tolerances for mass manufacturing the same motor used in two "different" cars are going to be way tighter than binning in chip's for overclocking. You are talking a very small delta in power output just as a tiny extra measure. It's like Monster Power using gold contacts and saying they perform better.
@JulienW - "Why would the rear motor be the difference if the Performance and the LR RWD have the same output/motor. It just plan looks like the AWD' rear motor is software limited. Are is this info wrong?" - RWD needs full use of power because no front motor. AWD version IS software limited but the limitations are also speculatively in the inverter and how much current it can handle to push more power to the motors.
"Also if I understand correctly (and may be wrong) each motor has its own inverter to drive it independently. If this is the case then the inverters should be the same also since the LR RWD is the same as the Performance." - Correct, each motor does have it's own inverter. The LR RWD rear motor output being the same as the Performance doesn't dictate that the rear inverter in the AWD would be the same as either, though it seems highly likely. But as we can see, there are now two different motors for AWD and P3D so things still aren't clear.
If the upgrade is possible, I really don't see a downside for Tesla and don't understand why they wouldn't offer it. Whatever they charge will be 100% pure profit and cash in the coffer. Initially, it was argued that it would tick off the existing P3 owners, but I think that ship has sailed. Current prices for every model are drastically less than all of us early adopters paid - even accounting for tax credit reductions. It is what it is. Given Tesla's delicate financial situation, it seems that an influx of cash/revenue -especially when it's all profit - could really help the quarterly bottom line.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Note the 3P Stealth made its return AFTER the end of Q2.
It’s hard to find numbers. Peak power for the P3D is about 470HP now. That is not to the wheels: it’s about 430-450HP to the wheels, front and rear.
Wolfram|Alpha: Making the world’s knowledge computable
I don’t have RWD acceleration data, but we can say it is roughly 3.4/5.0 less than the 3P+. So that would be 0.86g*3.4/5 = 0.58g.
Assuming acceleration starts to decrease at 45mph (no data) like the 3P+, that means max power of the rear motor to the wheels is:
Wolfram|Alpha: Making the world’s knowledge computable
So 281HP at the wheels, which is about 300HP from the motor.
Converted to kW:
LR RWD - 220kW
3P - 350kW total.
It’s reasonable to think front motor could do 130+ kW.
The AWD is significantly less total power than the 3P, so it could get away with lower rear motor power and still get the 4.3s 0-60mph rather than the 3.4s.
These are just rough calculations based on acceleration numbers; they aren’t exact. They aren’t that out of line with your table.
The LR RWDs have been build with the same motor as the P3D as you would expect based on above. Probably CANNOT get away with a weaker motor unlike the AWD.
groovidad
Living the Dream!
Considering this “request”, one would think Elon vis a vis engineers would clear this up in response. It’s fun to speculate with current knowledge yet, may not be necessary(?) Regardless, it would be a money generator.
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I started collection some data from the Danish Model 3 owners club. From what we can gather from the European deliveries (that started in February 2019) the early shipments had a few AWD-980's, but most are by now AWD-990. So far Performance models are 980, but only 2-3 samples (and most are early deliveries or cars that where in stock as they were delivered within weeks - and thus not shipped from the US within the last few months).
We did have one user who had an early order for a Performance, but Tesla messed up the order an delivered a standard AWD-980 instead in March. The AWD was a couple of weeks later updated OTA with 20% extra performance software, so it is possible to upgrade (the screen still says "Long Range", but it is significantly faster now). This has however caused the owner's car to not accept new updates starting with the 2019.28.1 version (it gives an "incompatible drive unit"-error).
In Europe there have been a lot of P3D- added as inventory cars over the last week (and some of them newer as they have tow hitches). A user from a Norwegian groud asked Tesla where they where from (as there was a "sudden" spike in P3D- inventory cars) and he was told by Tesla that they were AWD's they had in stock that they software upgraded. As the tow hitches were added as an option to only AWD in June then there is a very good chance that these P3D- are with 990 motors, but no confirmation.
We did have one user who had an early order for a Performance, but Tesla messed up the order an delivered a standard AWD-980 instead in March. The AWD was a couple of weeks later updated OTA with 20% extra performance software, so it is possible to upgrade (the screen still says "Long Range", but it is significantly faster now). This has however caused the owner's car to not accept new updates starting with the 2019.28.1 version (it gives an "incompatible drive unit"-error).
In Europe there have been a lot of P3D- added as inventory cars over the last week (and some of them newer as they have tow hitches). A user from a Norwegian groud asked Tesla where they where from (as there was a "sudden" spike in P3D- inventory cars) and he was told by Tesla that they were AWD's they had in stock that they software upgraded. As the tow hitches were added as an option to only AWD in June then there is a very good chance that these P3D- are with 990 motors, but no confirmation.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Thanks for the info.
That would be good to know, if it confirms. If you could post the pictures (when you get them) in the long Motors thread, that would be cool.
Model 3 Motors on the Tesla Parts Catalog
My view is somewhat hypothetical, and the ludicrous upgrade comes to mind, as well as various models that have been uncorked. If you can flip a feb bits and increase the amount of max current going to the inverter, you end up with more power. Sort of like adding nitrous with a few mouse clicks at Tesla. This added performance requires that everything in the current path, like the wire gauge, contactors, connectors, etc handle the increased load, without premature failure. With talk of the million mile electric power train, it seems like the upgrade of AWD to P spec is technically possible, but I think Tesla is looking at the impact on Performance 3 sales and value, as well as long term wear. I can also see AWDs being converted to P3D- while owned by Tesla so they can sell as performance models. I’ll bet they are still thinking about potential service and warranty issues and hoping they don’t end up with increased drive unit failures like the older Model S. My opinion is Tesla will not upgrade AWDs for current owners to P spec, because, among other things, who would buy a Performance Model Y. It all depends on pricing which seems to change weekly.
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