Free supercharger or pay per use?

[Big-Al]

I think the number of people in model S or X who want to supercharge to save money is small, but that more people who buy the model 3 will want to maximize savings by using the supercharger as much as possible. I see it regularly when people take advantage of free/unlimited things be it public services or an all you can eat, restaurant. I think there needs to be a disincentive to be in a stall when there is a line up. On long weekends and heavy travel days I think it's worth paying extra to guarantee a spot.

It it would be nice if a new software update would show how many stalls are currently available and forecast to be available at your eta. I think it's coming.

I bet it's only a few years away when auto pilot will pull into the stall for you when it becomes available, then move when done, and hopefully less than 10 years away when the car drops you off, goes and charges itself, then comes to get you.

It seems to be that is is unfair to assume that those who may want to pay less for an EV and purchase a Model 3 are "cheapskates" who will abuse the use of the supercharger network. Like others say, if the cost of supercharging is baked into the price of the car, then buyers, whether they are Model S, X or 3, should have equal access.. I've known plenty of wealthy guys who made their money by penny pinching.. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the owners of the expensive cars who will be using the superchargers more heavily.

 

[Gen3]

It seems to be that is is unfair to assume that those who may want to pay less for an EV and purchase a Model 3 are "cheapskates" who will abuse the use of the supercharger network. Like others say, if the cost of supercharging is baked into the price of the car, then buyers, whether they are Model S, X or 3, should have equal access.. I've known plenty of wealthy guys who made their money by penny pinching.. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the owners of the expensive cars who will be using the superchargers more heavily.

I don't think most model 3 buyers will be "cheapskates" but that the percentage will be slightly higher, and that with the much higher volume the number will increase noticeably. I know people in Generation Y who want to borrow Netflix instead of paying the monthly $8.99, or now $9.99, but are also the same people who will support tesla over other manufacturers when they are ready to buy a car. For someone who drives 25000-30000 miles a year, free supercharging (which is the current deal) will save over $100 per month. Unless the letter of the law prohibits abuse, too many people will abuse it.

I'm all for building out the supercharger network to alleviate/prevent congestion, but I don't see it actually keeping up with demand in the long term.

 

[raysspl]

There will be more Supercharger stations that will be built throughout so as to alleviate the growing lines. You don't see much people complaining when there's lines brewing at a gas station. I do hope Elon stands by his words making them free for as long as possible.

 

[4SUPER9]

The solution that I have suggested in a few other threads is pretty simple, keeps the spirit of "Free" Supercharging, but adds a financial burden and cost to abusers. Here is the rough concept:

• First 90 minutes, free. Keep normal use free. Send text warning at 15 min or so before free ends, and cost begins.
• Next 60 minutes, $0.10 per minute cost. $6/hr is annoying, and gets attention, but is not burdensome. Send a text reminder half way through this phase, warning about current costs and upcoming costs.
• After 2.5 hours total, $1 per minute cost. $60/hr will get most people to move their cars before this phase.

I have commented on Cottonwood's recommendation on another thread. I wholeheartedly agree with this. My only concern is that there are times when this would be burdensome. Imagine traveling across country and arriving at 12am at hotel with a Supercharger. There is no one else charging. Wouldn't it be nice to catch some zzzz's and unplug in the morning? Perhaps make this "In effect from 6am to 12am"? That way, if someone plugs in at 10:30pm, they are okay until 6am. Alternatively, make this exception available only at those locations where such opportunities to sleep exist. No one needs to plug in and leave at Fountain Valley, etc.

 

[Kbra]

IMO Supercharging will always be free for all Model S and X owners. The Model 3s will have some form of payment required, either a per use or monthly subscription model.

 

[MiamiNole]

Referral Program Link for $1,200 towards a home charging installation: [URL="http://ts.la/kevin1561[/QUOTE"]http://ts.la/kevin1561[/URL]

This caught my attention. Regarding home charging installation, I guess I have 2 questions: 1. How much on average is the total cost of home charging installation? And 2. Will this referral program still be around by the time the Model 3 is released?

Haven't seen much talk on this forum about setup for home charging (I suppose a good number of people on this board are already Model S or other EV owners and have home charging already setup) and thought about starting my own thread on it, but figured here is as good as any place to ask.

 

[Bimbels]

This caught my attention. Regarding home charging installation, I guess I have 2 questions: 1. How much on average is the total cost of home charging installation? And 2. Will this referral program still be around by the time the Model 3 is released?

Haven't seen much talk on this forum about setup for home charging (I suppose a good number of people on this board are already Model S or other EV owners and have home charging already setup) and thought about starting my own thread on it, but figured here is as good as any place to ask.

This referral program expired, but I would expect a similar program for when the 3 - if needed. I have a feeling the demand will be so much though that they don't need a referral program. Tesla has had several programs in the past so sure, they could be something in the future.

I can't address cost since my husband did it, but I think with an electrician you're looking at around $800 for just the dedicated breaker and a 50A plug. It depends on the needs of your site, though. The $1200 tesla was offering was basically the average cost of an electrician plus the wall charger.

 

[MP3Mike]

First 3MWh worth of free charging per annum, per car. That translates to roughly around 10,000 real world miles.

Anything beyond that, you pay the national average $/kWh charge.

How many times do we have to tell people that Tesla can't charge per kWh, at least in every state, unless they become a utility and be subject to all of the local utility regulations. It. Will. Never. Happen.

They could charge an annual/monthly fee, or even a per-use fee, but I don't see them doing that. They will have all the data they need from the Model S/X Supercharging to be able to determine how much they need to charge up-front for the service. (Either built-in to the vehicle cost or as an option.) Yes, that is correct, Supercharging is not free the people using it have already paid for it.

It is just so much simpler, and cheaper, to not have to deal with billing.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The solution that I have suggested in a few other threads is pretty simple, keeps the spirit of "Free" Supercharging, but adds a financial burden and cost to abusers. Here is the rough concept:

• First 90 minutes, free. Keep normal use free. Send text warning at 15 min or so before free ends, and cost begins.
• Next 60 minutes, $0.10 per minute cost. $6/hr is annoying, and gets attention, but is not burdensome. Send a text reminder half way through this phase, warning about current costs and upcoming costs.
• After 2.5 hours total, $1 per minute cost. $60/hr will get most people to move their cars before this phase.

A cheaper alternative might be to:
- Have enforced parking time limits
- Slow down the Supercharger

Need a useful, short word for someone who is charging to lower electrical energy cost at home. Hmm, L E E C H. That'll work.

Superchargers power a pair of stalls. There are two ways a LEECH can affect things:
- They occupy a spot at a busy Supercharger
- Their car is charging, and slows down the other stall.

If:
- there are enforced time limits, someone's car can't occupy a spot all day
- charging is slowed down, it becomes less convenient to charge at a Supercharger
- charging is slowed down, the Supercharger can always charge the paired stall fast

I think that the combination would have an effect on the number of stalls required, but still avoid a lot of the overheads and restrictions that payment and account management bring into play. It's probably only a small proportion of persistent LEECHes that would need to be eliminated, and the combination of hard time limits and inconvenience of LEECHing would, I think, have a significant impact.

 

[MP3Mike]

If:
- there are enforced time limits, someone's car can't occupy a spot all day
- charging is slowed down, it becomes less convenient to charge at a Supercharger
- charging is slowed down, the Supercharger can always charge the paired stall fast

I think that the combination would have an effect on the number of stalls required, but still avoid a lot of the overheads and restrictions that payment and account management bring into play. It's probably only a small proportion of persistent LEECHes that would need to be eliminated, and the combination of hard time limits and inconvenience of LEECHing would, I think, have a significant impact.

I like that LEECHes get Superslow charging. Just like data throttling on cell phone plans. I just hope that Tesla is very upfront about whatever they do.

I hope nothing more than a reminder/warning is necessary, but you would have to have some kind of enforcement.

One possible thing that could help would be to only sell vehicles to people that have the resources to charge at home. But that would be a nightmare to enforce so I don't see that happening.

 

[Bimbels]

A cheaper alternative might be to:
- Have enforced parking time limits
- Slow down the Supercharger

Need a useful, short word for someone who is charging to lower electrical energy cost at home. Hmm, L E E C H. That'll work.

Superchargers power a pair of stalls. There are two ways a LEECH can affect things:
- They occupy a spot at a busy Supercharger
- Their car is charging, and slows down the other stall.

If:
- there are enforced time limits, someone's car can't occupy a spot all day
- charging is slowed down, it becomes less convenient to charge at a Supercharger
- charging is slowed down, the Supercharger can always charge the paired stall fast

I think that the combination would have an effect on the number of stalls required, but still avoid a lot of the overheads and restrictions that payment and account management bring into play. It's probably only a small proportion of persistent LEECHes that would need to be eliminated, and the combination of hard time limits and inconvenience of LEECHing would, I think, have a significant impact.

Now we're talking about slowing down superchargers?! OMG you guys are hilarious.

I think some of you also have over estimated the amount of "leeching" that goes on in the real world at SCs.

Like MP3Mike has said, Tesla has all the data on owners and their supercharging habits. Rather than police each and every supercharger stall in the country, it's much easier for them to identify "abusers" just looking at a computer. And they have been known to send letters to owners who they believe abuse SCs.

Right now, a vast majority of Model S owners DON'T EVEN USE superchargers. On the Tesla forum someone said 80% don't even use them, or rarely (like, once a month) use them. They charge at home each night and aren't driving daily distances that require, or even take them in the vicinity of, as SC.

 

[tga]

So the solution to supercharging abusers is to slow down their charge rate, forcing/encouraging them to camp out in a charging spot longer?

 

[Max*]

- Slow down the Supercharger

Tesla would be stupid to do this. You slow down supercharging, the person stays longer at the location, using an available spot. It doesn't cost him anything but time, but if you hit him where it really hurts (his wallet), he's more likely to react.

- - - Updated - - -

So the solution to supercharging abusers is to slow down their charge rate, forcing/encouraging them to camp out in a charging spot longer?

You beat me to it.

 

[Fallenone]

He said many times that it is free for life for S and X. As far as I remember, he never indicated it will be free for 3.

There have been so many threads on this. Elon has said free. Many times.

 

[eisbock]

Simple, keep charging free, but once the car finishes charging, give the user a 10-15 minute window, then start charging heavily by the minute with the rate increasing every half hour or so.

Notifications are all handled via text or through the app.

 

[MP3Mike]

From the Tesla web site "Superchargers are for refueling quickly on road trips." and "Free long distance travel on the Supercharger network."

So anyone buying now isn't being told that they have unlimited free access to the Supercharger network, they clearly say "road trips" and "free long distance travel".

My guess is that if they are going to do anything they would something along the lines of:

1. Send a letter/email letting them know that it appears that they are charging too much at local Superchargers during high demand times. With a note about them being for "road trips".
2. If it continues send a letter/email warning them that if they continue to be abuse the Superchargers that their Supercharger access will be limited.
3. Have an annoying pop-up come up on their 17" before Supercharging will start letting them know that they are abusing the Supercharger access, with a reminder about the pending restrictions.
4. If it still continues temporarily blacklist their VIN from all Superchargers within ~150 miles of their home/work/normal locations during high demand times along with notification of such. Have the ban lifted for ~6 hours if they Supercharge at least 100 miles outside their ban zone.

It just seems like it gets too complicated.

 

[Model 3]

He said many times that it is free for life for S and X. As far as I remember, he never indicated it will be free for 3.

He has. He has even said it would be free for all Tesla owners (no matter what car model). If he will keep his word or not is anybody’s guess.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

OK. How about this? The Model 3 defaults to a pay to a pay per use option, unless someone explicitly chooses the $2000 unlimited Supercharger access option.

No. Pay per use sucks for charging.

- - - Updated - - -

Tesla would be stupid to do this. You slow down supercharging, the person stays longer at the location, using an available spot. It doesn't cost him anything but time, but if you hit him where it really hurts (his wallet), he's more likely to react.

- - - Updated - - -



You beat me to it.

Tesla would be stupid to do this. You slow down supercharging, the person stays longer at the location, using an available spot. It doesn't cost him anything but time, but if you hit him where it really hurts (his wallet), he's more likely to react.

- - - Updated - - -



You beat me to it.

That's why you have to have _both_ parking time limits _and_ slow charging. There are _two_ problems, not just _one_. One problem is people parking at the Supercharger, and the other problem is charging there unnecessarily in the first place. Introduce parking payments adds management overhead and introduces legal issues, without addressing the 2nd problem of unnecessary charging.

 

[4SUPER9]

That's why you have to have _both_ parking time limits _and_ slow charging. There are _two_ problems, not just _one_. One problem is people parking at the Supercharger, and the other problem is charging there unnecessarily in the first place. Introduce parking payments adds management overhead and introduces legal issues, without addressing the 2nd problem of unnecessary charging.

You are correct. How would charging a fee be implemented? Would TM need to keep an active credit card on file? How will they handle disputes? It would be a massive headache. As much as I like Cottonwood's suggestions, I don't think it will ever happen. Neither will pay per use, unless they install a credit card terminal at each stall.

 

[Fallenone]

Do you have a link for this info? Thanks in advance.

He has. He has even said it would be free for all Tesla owners (no matter what car model). If he will keep his word or not is anybody’s guess.