Rather than yelling at us twice in your post it would have been really helpful to explain what happened in your drive(s) so we could better understand and properly reply.
thank you
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thank you
Robin Chris
MYP - 22/06/29 - White/Black - FSD - 21´-Tow hitch
FSD Beta in it's current state is incredibly good. Most drives in cities are now 0 Disengagements and only a few Interventions(i.e electric pedal).
No idea where you got these experiences from, you sure you are driving a tesla xD?
Here's the problem. You have a bunch of people here that paid $10,000 and up for the FSD package. They will never admit to it being bad because it will make them look foolish. But ask them if they want their money back and watch them jump at the offer.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I definitely paid over $10kUS for the FSD, and I am one of the happy ones....
There's still nothing the market offers that is comparable to Tesla + FSD at this (inc. new FSD price) price point.
Perfect? Nope. Cheap? Nope. Bad? Compare to what?
There's still nothing the market offers that is comparable to Tesla + FSD at this (inc. new FSD price) price point.
Perfect? Nope. Cheap? Nope. Bad? Compare to what?
I'm in the same field. Newfangled name (user experience) but deals with human factors and human-computer-interaction. I would be interested to know what were your top complaints in your "documentary" and see if they align with mine. WRT FSDb specifically, I actually don't have a lot of complaints from a HF/HCI perspective. Engaging it is a clearly defined action. Disengaging it is also clearly defined and multi-modal (stalk, brake). I do have a gripe about steering wheel disengagement not disabling TACC, but that is well discussed around these parts. There are also auditory chimes to go along with visual indicators of status. And Tesla chose blue, the most colorblind-friendly color to represent AP/FSD actions. What HF issues did you specifically encounter as they pertain to FSD?
I assume you're comparing software, not hardware. What specifically about Dragon's interface are you comparing to FSD's interface? And what FSD-specific interface did you find deficient?
This is not a human factors issue. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're also ranting that you don't find FSD worth the amount Tesla is asking for. As others have asked: are you complaining about FSD? or FSD beta? They are quite different.
I can't comprehend this word salad at all. Vertical integration is what makes Tesla able to use software to improve hardware at any level in the car, something I haven't seen any legacy auto maker be able to do. But you were complaining about FSD, not the general firm/software of the car, so not really sure what your point is here. Sounds like you're worried that future hardware changes can't be retrofit into older cars. So what exactly is your gripe? FSD? The car's firmware? or the car's future hardware not being backward compatible?
Lastly, a key requirement of a UI and HF designer is the ability to communicate effectively. The modern role for this is called UX Content or Content Designer. Think of it as making the words in a UI be as concise and clear as possible. Given the above word salad, I have to question your skills as a product designer. You should also be familiar with authority bias, right? Calling out your credentials doesn't automatically make your arguments stronger. The people you've stereotyped as "believers" are just trying to figure out what specifically you're complaining about.
I paid $2k for my FSDb and until 10.69.2 it hasn't felt very useful until the latest releases because of the drawbacks.
Today, I literally use it for every drive and every commute now, and when set to the speed limit works pretty well. It still needs regular intervention to control the speed and to let the car know when it is safe to turn at an occluded left or right turn but there are maybe one or 2-4 of those per day for me.
Otherwise, it is a great tool, and I am currently buying a model Y. I didn't add FSD initially because I wanted the tax credit, and thought $15k was too much based on FSDb performance 2 months ago. Today my wife and I talked, and she agrees that $15k is actually about right and cheap if it gets better and smoother. She wants to buy it after we get delivery so we can maintain the tax credit.
Imagine right now you could pay a 16-year-old with their permit show up, wait at your car and drive you to work and back every day for the next 4-5 years (or longer) and all they wanted in exchange was a flat cost of $15k and you pay for charging. They are a pretty slow and hesitant driver but usually safe.
Would you do it?
The mere fact that the thread is so incoherent or extreme that it looks bot-generated is reason enough to ignore it.
johnnycnote
Member
Yes, seems unlikely. But I drove the car less than 90 days before I received FSDb, so maybe possible?
johnnycnote
Member
I agree with this FSDb assessment. Now that I have it, I use it all the time and I miss it when I'm in a Tesla that doesn't have it. The car does drive like a very careful 16 YO with a new permit, so there's def more work to be done
So if I understand this correctly, a new Tesla buyer would have to fork over $15,000 for the opportunity that they *might* be selected in the future to participate in a beta program. That's like walking up to a night club, handing $500 to the bouncer and stand there hoping he selects you.
A more fair system would be:
A) Tesla gives option for buyer to opt in. No payment required up front.
B) Buyer then goes through a driving score test over a period of a fixed time. Whatever that time is, buyer knows upfront (such as 5000 mile evaluation).
C) After evaluation completes and buyer passes the test, then buyer receives an invitation to beta, for which then the buyer can choose to pay for the service.
D) Once payment is delivered, service activates and customer receives the good they paid for, not a so called *maybe* that they will be chosen in the future.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Got a video or something? In tens of thousands of miles of driving I've never seen AS just randomly turn off without human intervention or as a result of doing an AP jail thing (exceeding AP speed limit, ignoring nags, etc)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The beta is still a limited release product. Buying FSD does not convey any right whatsoever to get the beta and Tesla does not currently want "anyone" who buys FSD to have it.
Having FSD (via subscription or purchase) simply adds you to the pool of people who can request to be added to the testing program.... of which something like half (in NA) are now in it, and about half are not.
Presumably some of the half that is not haven't asked to join of course.
If you don't like those terms you're free to wait until it's in wide release where it DOES come as part of the purchase (allegedly by end of year, but we've heard that before)
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
Sure, why not. Or I'll even do you one better:
1) People buy Tesla cars (which come with AP), and ask to join the beta
2) They prove they are good drivers and are invited into the beta program, no cost
3) They continue on the beta at no charge, helping improve the system
4) The software is complete at some point and ready to be released
5) The beta is removed from your car and you are returned to AP only
6) You can now buy FSD for whatever price Tesla sets (could be $15K, could be $20K, could be $50K)
Note: If, during the beta, it's determined that hardware changes are necessary, you are removed from the beta unless you pay the upgrade fee for the hardware, or buy a new car with the new hardware.
OOOOoooo - or another option:
1) People buy Tesla cars (which come with AP), and ask to join the beta
2) They prove they are good drivers and are invited into the beta program
3) They are paid as "safety drivers" in a gig-contract for beta testing the software - let's say the IRS set-cost per mile of 62.5 cents per mile
4) The software is complete at some point and ready to be released
5) The beta is removed from your car, your contract is terminated, and you are returned to AP only
6) You can now buy FSD for whatever price Tesla sets (could be $15K, could be $20K, could be $50K)
Note: If, during the beta, it's determined that hardware changes are necessary, you are removed from the beta unless you pay the upgrade fee for the hardware, or buy a new car with the new hardware.
This is fun!
Is there ANY indication when this happens? Such as a single "ding" sound? Make sure your music is not too loud so you can hear it, and that you don't have Joe Mode turned on.
I've seen videos of people claiming that FSD Beta or AP disabled on its own, but listening carefully you can hear a "ding", which is usually the same sound you hear when you get a wheel disengagement (you forced the wheel to turn, or prevented it from turning).
"Tesla does not currently want "anyone" who buys FSD to have it" You forgot to add "but they'll GLADLY take all the money upfront" and then *maybe* select you, sometime in the future, IF.... There is no fixed criteria. Tesla takes your money and then you wait with zero insight onto whether or not your service will come.
So what happens if you never get selected? We already saw. Tesla keeps the money and you get nothing in return.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I didn't forget because that's not true.
Again "access to the beta" is not being sold.
You can tell because when you go to the purchase page it lists what you get, and that's not on the list.
Except that you get all the actual wide release FSD features you are told you will get for buying it, plus any future ones that go wide release.
You do NOT get, and are not owed or promised in any way as part of your purchase early access to limited-test-group things.
I can't figure out how anyone is confused by this unless they've never actually bought FSD (or didn't bother to read what they were buying)
