FSD Beta 12.3 GA

[pwccycles]

FSD 12.3 is much smoother overall in lane changes and turns. I see it getting better and better but my biggest issues are still unresolved.

• Lack of planning for a turn or offramp. We have all noticed this I'm sure. FSD does not take the traffic congestion in to consideration and will happily change lanes to the left half a mile from a turn or offramp and miss them. This seems like a no brainer with the route and maps known ahead of time.
• TACC. When I am following another car slower than the set speed and it accelerates FSD just sits there for a long time before SLOWLY getting up to the desired speed. It's as if the cameras are not sensing the distance the way radar would. I think this because if the slow car in front moves to a different lane the speed change is immediate back to the set speed.
• Timid turns. When coming to any turn, right, left or unprotected left FSD takes a significant amount of time to make a decision on what to do. I have to constantly push the pedal to make it move.
• random slowing. As others have said it does not do the extreme braking, but is constantly slowing for no reason. I have to constantly be ready to push the pedal when this happens. This has been an issue for so long I wonder if it will ever be corrected.
• Failure to keep set speed, or even the speed limit for that matter. I noticed this right away with 12.3. It got stuck 10mph below the speed limit and stayed there. I accelerated to the set limit and it did keep that speed.
• Blind spot. FSD does not take into account that it is in another car's blind spot. It just sits there.
• Set speed changing on freeways. Changing from one freeway to another (not getting off the freeway, just moving to another one) resets the set speed. Sometimes just passing an offramp or seemingly at random it resets it to the posted speed. I am constantly reseting this as I drive. Thank goodness for the thumbwheel!

Sound like I am negative on FSD and Tesla but I am not! I use it on every drive and go crazy when I drive another car without it!

Thanks for reading...

PC

 

[ringemup]

I finally took a good long highway drive on 12.3 and found it every bit as bad as my initial street experience, and the street behaviors have not improved. The speed issues on an open highway are baffling, although the mountain pass I have to drive through went better than the normal two lanes each way, concrete divider freeway-like existence of a city. Nevertheless, maintaining speeds is remarkably bad - one that is quite puzzling trying to figure out the behaviors.
Like another post up above, I understand what it is we're testing, and that regardless of what you call the underlying platform, it's software. I've been in the software business for more than 40 years - I know why I don't trust this thing, and why I'm giving it as much rope as I can, but still not going to let it hang me. There are parts that are much smoother, and for that I'm pleased. As for the "Texas Brake Check" behavior (stop in the fast lane for no apparent reason), that's a hard one to fathom, and a hard one to protect against, particularly when you're the only person on the road, so you're not really expecting such an odd reaction.
Another oddity that persists that I find somewhat amusing (when it's not trying to kill me, of course): it seemingly has no idea what a yield sign is. I've always found this one puzzling. It doesn't show them on the screen, and its behavior demonstrates it clearly doesn't understand the principle. I've had it blow right through a yield sign and try to stick me as the cross member position of a T in front of oncoming traffic more than once, or just sit there as though it's at a stop sign with nobody else coming - and never want to move.
A four way stop: it's significantly improved at handling the situation. Not perfect, but much better.
Like others, I find it fascinating how some are doing cartwheels and handsprings over the improvements, while others are finding every drive a test of terror. It would be very interesting to spot the commonality that leads to each of the two camps.

 

[eli_]

I hope we get another AI day cause this thing is totally opaque to me. Like yeah sure it's "end-to-end" now but what are they actually feeding to the driving model? The navigation still seems really primitive to me, it doesn't feel like a complex agent making long-term plans, it just reacts in the moment, not much different from v11, like maybe there is just "turn_left, turn_right, fork_left, fork_right" vectors as input or something like that. Or is it like OpenPilot where it actually renders a top-down map as input to the driving model? I wonder if next-gen navigation we will literally tell the driving models "Turn left on Elm St." and it will be multi-modal enough to grok the plain language in there, and read navigational signs along the roadway.

Anyway super fun to test this stuff now there are new quirks to discover and different behavior, and it shipped way faster than expected, hope they can get back to a two week release cadence like before.

 

[RobK]

I finally took a good long highway drive on 12.3 and found it every bit as bad as my initial street experience, and the street behaviors have not improved. The speed issues on an open highway are baffling, although the mountain pass I have to drive through went better than the normal two lanes each way, concrete divider freeway-like existence of a city. Nevertheless, maintaining speeds is remarkably bad - one that is quite puzzling trying to figure out the behaviors.
Like another post up above, I understand what it is we're testing, and that regardless of what you call the underlying platform, it's software. I've been in the software business for more than 40 years - I know why I don't trust this thing, and why I'm giving it as much rope as I can, but still not going to let it hang me. There are parts that are much smoother, and for that I'm pleased. As for the "Texas Brake Check" behavior (stop in the fast lane for no apparent reason), that's a hard one to fathom, and a hard one to protect against, particularly when you're the only person on the road, so you're not really expecting such an odd reaction.
Another oddity that persists that I find somewhat amusing (when it's not trying to kill me, of course): it seemingly has no idea what a yield sign is. I've always found this one puzzling. It doesn't show them on the screen, and its behavior demonstrates it clearly doesn't understand the principle. I've had it blow right through a yield sign and try to stick me as the cross member position of a T in front of oncoming traffic more than once, or just sit there as though it's at a stop sign with nobody else coming - and never want to move.
A four way stop: it's significantly improved at handling the situation. Not perfect, but much better.
Like others, I find it fascinating how some are doing cartwheels and handsprings over the improvements, while others are finding every drive a test of terror. It would be very interesting to spot the commonality that leads to each of the two camps.

I understand that the "Highway stack" is still on the old SW branch so one would not see any improvements. Hopefully that will be converted to the neural nets, soon. I agree that even though it is much smoother one has to be very vigilant while driving under V12.3

 

[Supcom]

I understand that the "Highway stack" is still on the old SW branch so one would not see any improvements. Hopefully that will be converted to the neural nets, soon. I agree that even though it is much smoother one has to be very vigilant while driving under V12.3

Highways are still V11 on 12.3.1, in case anyone is wondering. That includes two lane rural highways where speed limits are 65 mph.

 

[tribhuvanji]

I guess they’re trying to force more data collection from where users like me just disable fsd whenever certain driving conditions present themselves and utilized TACC. I’ve clearly learned where I can “safely” use FSD ( if I’m willing to put up with the incessant nags ) and where it just scares me and I just drive myself.

Interesting you say that about disabling FSD when you don't trust it! I do the same thing. I'm not willing to risk lives or property damage for a tidbit of data collection. If Tesla were to offer full liability for testers I could justify taking a risk. IMO a trillion dollar company should be able to send employees around traffic circles and construction sites to train it.

By the way I believe the single pull TACC bypass was implemented as a safety feature - to avoid drivers still thinking FSD is active when it was only TACC - it fooled me a couple of times where I expected the car to steer and caught it just in time.

 

[jakimo]

I'm finding that 12.3 with auto-speed control is very 'teachable'.. when it's a bit slow for me, I push on the energy pedal to bring it up then let go.. and the Tesla seems to get the hint and maintains the faster speed I encouraged by doing some of my own acceleration

 

[Jagular]

I’ve had several drives (~10 trips) using FSD in the city - lots of construction, workers holding stop signs, people/pets, delivery vans, crazy lane shifts (from the construction), road humps. Most of the drives have been short (around 20 minutes) but a few have been in the 45 minute range and I’ve not had any disengagements and the car adjusts speed for the speed bumps, generally avoids pot holes. I agree with @jakimo that the FSD seems to learn during the drive when I accelerate based on the car’s cautious acceleration and keeps the speed I set. If I had been on V11.4.x during these drives, I would’ve just taken over out of frustration. V12 is so much better!

 

[pwccycles]

The problems posted in the main V12 thread point to some weird safety issues (driving on the wrong side of the road probably being the worst but the inability to maintain a set speed on a road could also be problematic.) The inconsistencies are concerning; no problems for some folks and others in the same situation are forced to disengage. I haven't been tracking if the different behaviour corresponds to different states (and thus different learned driving behaviour by the AI.)

But the mixed response is enough that I'm not chomping at the bit to get it (and can't because I haven't since November and my car needs updating to V11.4.9 first.)

The most surprising to me is the speed issue as it was apparent within the first mile I drove. They must have known about it. That said I will say overall despite the areas of improvement the turns, acceleration from a stop and overall behavior is really improved.

 

[JB47394]

They must have known about it.

It's even better when combined with the racing launches from stops. I wonder if they were so focused on city driving, and so thrilled at the remarkable performance there, that they never took the thing out of town.

 

[pwccycles]

It's even better when combined with the racing launches from stops. I wonder if they were so focused on city driving, and so thrilled at the remarkable performance there, that they never took the thing out of town.

I do love that they finally changed the granny/grandpa starts from a stop sign or light. Was so tired of watching mini vans go ahead of me due to the timid starts!

 

[JB47394]

I do love that they finally changed the granny/grandpa starts from a stop sign or light.

I never had a problem with V11's behavior for that. I'm pretty sure that I incited race mania from a couple of V8 Mustangs when the car took off from a light. They took off with the noise pedal on Loud.

We definitely need Chill, Average and Assertive to mean something again. I'll take Chill. You can have Assertive.

 

[thmaub]

My commute includes a large chunk along a road that is Route 15. I can't use the autospeed because it reads every one of the signs as a speed limit, so it constantly ping-pongs between 15 and 40 MPH. V11 didn't get tripped up by these signs.

Anyone else live in area where their car is getting confused by signs like this?

 

[B_E_V]

I enabled auto-speed control again this morning. Mostly I found myself using the accelerator pedal to nudge 12.3 to drive faster, which based on very limited testing seemed to work slightly better than doing the same thing with auto-speed disabled. Though I did find it awkward and annoying.

However, my bigger problem surprised me. Version 12.3 drove 38 in a 30 zone going down a hill towards a local speed trap. With auto-speed control activated the only way I could figure out to slow the car was with the brake pedal, which of course disengaged FSD.

I don't in principle mind Tesla treating the scroll wheel speed as the MAXIMUM speed instead of as the TARGET speed. However, totally DISABLING our ability to set a MAXIMUM speed dynamically when using auto-speed control needs to be reconsidered.

 

[legendsk]

Went for a ride today. A couple of surprises. In a parking lot it suddenly slowed down and gently eased over a speed bump - perfect! And at the next one, at the last second it went to max acceleration and leaped over the speed bump, throwing the groceries over the rear seat back in to rear passenger area, which was empty fortunately.

Cruising (55 mph), up to an intersection for a right turn. Traffic signal = RED. Left view obscured by pickup truck in next lane left. Kept waiting to see what it was going to do. With around 20 ft to intersection, car suddenly slowed to 25 or so and dived around the right turn (light still RED), and immediately leaped to 55 mph and then drifted down to the actual 30 mph limit.

And finally nicely took correct exit from 75mph freeway, where it had set the speed limit at 83 although I have the relative speed + - 0. As it came off the ramp it signaled and dived for the right lane and once there, in the exact same fashion as making a landing with a plane with a left turn down onto the tarmac. Was breath taking and scary, but it pulled it off great?

 

[eli_]

I can't tell any difference between the Chill, Average, Aggressive profiles, maybe following distance? Not sure.

 

[slevit1md]

I recently "upgraded" to v12 (I use that term very loosely), and really wish I could go back to 11! I suppose it takes turns smoother, and it does see speed bumps, but that's where the good ends. Overall, I think it's one step forward, several steps back.

1. It STILL cannot figure out flashing yellow lights. Why the hell have they still not fixed this? It doesn't slam on the brakes as bad as v11 did, but it still wants to stop for every flashing yellow.
2. It has major issues keeping the appropriate speed. It now takes the set speed as a max speed, not the speed you want it to go. In my neighborhood (25 mph limit), it routinely goes less than 15 mph, for absolutely no reason. It still drives as expected on the highway, but on anything other than a divided highway, it wants to go either the speed limit, or often times slightly below. Occasionally hitting the accelerator will get it to keep the higher speed for a short time, but it eventually goes back to something right around the speed limit. There's no obvious way to get it to keep the set speed anymore. It caused me to get passed on my way to work today, for maybe the first time ever!
3. It sometimes stays in the center of the lane, but more often wants to hug the right line, for no apparent reason. I would understand if there were cars coming at me, but it's doing it on straight roads with not another vehicle in sight.
4. It does turn more smoothly, but only when it finally decides to go past the stop sign. It completely stops before every stop sign, regardless of how far back from the turn the sign actually is. This is not at all how people drive, and makes it take way too long to actually make a turn.
5. I do not like that you're now forced into FSD with single click.
6. Seems to take a lot longer to actually change lanes on the highway. Even when there's no one in the other lane, or they're far enough back to not be an issue, it just sits in the lane for several seconds before changing. Several times, I've just changed lanes myself because I was just sitting there with my turn signal on, and it wasn't doing anything.

 

[rgiaimo]

FSD Beta just dropped on my MSLR. It removed single-click for cruise control and immediately goes into full self-driving. The instructions say to double-click for cruise control, but it doesn't work. And, the double-click setting is greyed out. How do I get this thing to stop steering for me?

 

[JB47394]

How do I get this thing to stop steering for me?

In your Autopilot settings, select Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC). Then a single action will enable it.

If you want to switch back and forth between TACC and FSD, you'll need to create two driver profiles, one that enables each assist, and switch between the assists by switching between the profiles. At least, that's what folks say they've done.

I assume the reason behind this is that drivers weren't always sure what assist they had activated, so now it's always a single action to activate. It's a critical safety system, so any confusion could quickly lead to an accident.

 

[slevit1md]

I assume the reason behind this is that drivers weren't always sure what assist they had activated, so now it's always a single action to activate. It's a critical safety system, so any confusion could quickly lead to an accident.

If you can’t figure that out, you probably shouldn’t be driving. Getting tired of everything being geared to the lowest common denominator.