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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
As discussed in this thread, there was no evidence fsd was even in use, let alone that the actual cause wasn't the driver over-steering.
FSD Beta Attempts to Kill Me; Causes Accident
Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been trying to work with Tesla to resolve this issue out of the public domain, but they have been characteristically terrible and honestly don't seem to care. Over the last 3 weeks, I have sent multiple emails, followed up via phone calls, escalated...
teslamotorsclub.com
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I think based on the initial post we have to believe FSD Beta was in use. Can we know for sure? Absolutely not.
Having the car veer to avoid the mailbox (this is definitely standard expected behavior from FSD beta) supports that FSD beta was in use. It is 100% plausible and this is exactly how we expect FSD Beta to behave, as anyone who has used it knows.
Clearly over-correction was a major contributing factor as I said.
However, suppose someone veers into your lane, and you veer off the road to avoid them, and in your evasive actions, end up departing the roadway rather than remaining on the shoulder, resulting in vehicle damage. During reconstruction of the scene, it is determined that it was just physically possible to remain on the shoulder. I do not think we can say the person veering into your lane is “not the cause” and blame the victim for being a bad driver (which is true, for sure) because they have not trained and perfected proper car control at the handling limits of the vehicle. It’s certainly true the driver will be at fault, but they were still not the cause of the accident.
In reality accidents usually have multiple contributing factors. That’s the case in this FSD Beta example. Bad code was a major contributing factor.
To me, it seems very likely that as long as FSD Beta makes sudden sharp incorrect steering decisions on occasion (which it does; normal behavior), we will eventually see a documented accident occur caused by driver over-correction. It will be the driver’s fault and FSD Beta will be the cause. Just a matter of time.
Never mind that I am not counting curb strikes as accidents (which they are).
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Why?
He has made one post here- ever- and didn't even reply anywhere in the 19 additional pages of discussion his own single post spawned.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Because it is a completely plausible description; does not have the normal red flags. He likely eventually made contact with Tesla and settled the matter.
FWIW, the same description is in the NHTSA database (see link above to the poor-quality story).
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The fact he's never posted before or since... or that it's in the NHTSA database and yet this guys single post shows a screen shot from a car driving in Europe...(it's in KM, and dusseldorf appears on the nav) are not red flags to you?
From the video- assuming FSD was engaged at ANY point- it looks more like someone held the wheel TOO tightly, knocking it OUT of FSD to drift into the oncoming lane, and then overcorrecting his own mistake off the road.
I HAVE had the car drop out of autosteer when I held the wheel too tightly.
I've never had it cross a double-yellow line without it being during a bad turn (like an actual turn, not just a slightly curved single straight road).
It’s not accidents, it’s paying $200.00 for being put in danger and not being able to get a refund back. Especially for a month trial where it’s been suggested I get an FSD production revert as a fix. I paid a lot more for a car that used to include several TESLA components that I’ve paid over a $1000.00 for Today’s market. Even when the beta is not activated, i’ve got braking at green lights, cars passing making turns far up ahead causing braking. I should have known better about this and I make no bones about conveying my experiences as a paying tesla exception tester to my fellow old guy Nerds.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I assumed that picture was included in the original post by mistake. I’m talking about the verbiage.
Anyway it is in the NHTSA database (allegedly; I haven't been able to find it but not sure where to look). This apparently happened in Troy, MO, so could probably be geolocated if you really tried.
I’m sure it is possible to find a video out there of FSD Beta crossing double yellow lines to avoid pedestrians or other obstacles. Guess we’ll have to do a search! Maybe it doesn’t happen!
Yes. Seems quite reasonable to argue that is bad coding (or design) as well!
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You can not just pay for a month of FSD and get FSD Beta. You must apply for the FSD Beta and then participate in a Safety Score app. Then hope Tesla selects you. The process of being selected to test FSD Beta can take weeks or months to happen.
You must be confusing NoAP with FSD Beta.
This is a good point... and sort of makes FSD subscription a useless waste of dollars unless you plan on paying while crossing fingers that you get selected for beta.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
How? It'd be far more dangerous if it kept fighting the driver instead of dropping out of AS when it detects the human resisting it significantly.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Just a combination of inputs would potentially be good. Not talking about a system that would fight driver input. Just one that would stay engaged and yield to driver input. So that it doesn't veer out of the lane because the driver thinks the system is steering, while the system has yielded to the driver.
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Being a UI programmer things take time with proven exception tes
you’ll have to convince the slider buttons on MY TESLA UI that the captions saying FSD beta were in another language. Forget this issue it’s doesn’t matter when we’re dealing with ideology and not technology. Who cares? I never plan to use FSD. I’ll eat the $200 in tuition payments towards my teslacation. The engineering of the car and driving it is lovely.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
<citation required>
The list of stuff you'd have known if you'd bothered to read what you were buying keeps getting longer.
I'm not even sure what this sentence is trying to say.
Again... what?
Yes, if there's no lead car you need to confirm proceeding though green with regular FSD-- that's been true for years now and again this is explicitly told to you in writing in the manual you didn't read.
The owners manual said:
When FSDb is not active you're not intended to even be using the autosteer system in situations where that's possible. Again the manual tells you this.
It remains unclear if you even HAD fsdb, despite being asked multiple times. I suspect you don't even know.
Clearly.
FSD itself is beta, when you enable it. Im sure thats what this OP is rambl.... err talking about.
Are we back on this again? FSD (Autosteer on City Streets) is not available/released for general use. The only way to get it early is to apply to be in the FSD Beta, which is a test version. You are saying you want to test code that is not ready for release, where the car will do odd/terrible things from time to time and your job is to be a test driver, correct it when necessary and report your findings when the car does something incorrectly.
You signed up for it - why are people complaining that FSD Beta is terrible and not ready for prime-time?!? Of course it's not ready - that's why YOU'RE TESTING IT FOR THEM. Ugh... So done with these people...
You signed up for it - why are people complaining that FSD Beta is terrible and not ready for prime-time?!? Of course it's not ready - that's why YOU'RE TESTING IT FOR THEM. Ugh... So done with these people...
Missile Toad
MSLR Wht/Blk/19 | OD 6/10/21 | RN11512
Don't worry. The test will be over in two... wee.... err, TWO YEARS. Yes, that's right.
Oh, did I mention that I'm counting years in time it takes Mars to circle the sun?
Oh, did I mention that I'm counting years in time it takes Mars to circle the sun?
