Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Nah, I think that's just the camera angle. It's in the median (barely).
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FSD Beta 10.13
- Thread starter Todd Burch
- Start date
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Nah, I think that's just the camera angle. It's in the median (barely).
Oh, I think it was in the median for sure, but a failure since it was too close. Can’t make people move to avoid you.
You can see this pretty clearly.
Anyway it’s going to be a non-issue since this is something the Tesla should have no problem with. And if this did happen Chuck would push the accelerator slightly and it would be a failure.
tmoz
S85D, Y LR, ex Prius PiP
Pretty quiet here. I think we are all talked out. 36 pages and there is nothing more to say without and before the next release.
Hard to believe, but there is nothing more to say until this release finally releases.
Hard to believe, but there is nothing more to say until this release finally releases.
So..... After Tesla is done solving Chuck's ULT, here's another challenge. This is my view (mobile phone pic) leaning forward and looking left from this interaction. To get this picture, I manually pulled my car forward as much as possible without nosing into the near traffic lane. This is a right turn only, and the two lanes you see are both for traffic coming from the left.
The left repeater camera is a bit forward of my view (and lower), but that damned bush really blocks the view of oncoming traffic too much. Sometimes that traffic is moving pretty quickly. It's always tricky for human drivers to join the traffic from this location, and even though I'm really careful, sometimes I need to accelerate hard so as not to get in the way of traffic after making the turn.
I've tested FSD Beta here several times, but its behavior seems to be, well -- overly ambitious / confident. Even before the repeater camera can clear the bush to actually see if there's oncoming traffic, FSB Beta sometimes accelerates quickly (and without stopping first) toward the near traffic lane at such speed that I intervene and stop the car before it goes too far and risks a wreck.
That's because there's no way for the car (or me) to actually be certain during the approach that there'll be a sufficient gap in the traffic. It's been surprising to me that FSD Beta seems OK with moving blindly and quickly into unknown traffic.
Yes, I've provided Tesla with lots of feedback! These are real-world scenarios the car will have to be able to handle well. Even if this bush is removed/trimmed, there are countless other similar situations around the world.
The left repeater camera is a bit forward of my view (and lower), but that damned bush really blocks the view of oncoming traffic too much. Sometimes that traffic is moving pretty quickly. It's always tricky for human drivers to join the traffic from this location, and even though I'm really careful, sometimes I need to accelerate hard so as not to get in the way of traffic after making the turn.
I've tested FSD Beta here several times, but its behavior seems to be, well -- overly ambitious / confident. Even before the repeater camera can clear the bush to actually see if there's oncoming traffic, FSB Beta sometimes accelerates quickly (and without stopping first) toward the near traffic lane at such speed that I intervene and stop the car before it goes too far and risks a wreck.
That's because there's no way for the car (or me) to actually be certain during the approach that there'll be a sufficient gap in the traffic. It's been surprising to me that FSD Beta seems OK with moving blindly and quickly into unknown traffic.
Yes, I've provided Tesla with lots of feedback!
These are real-world scenarios the car will have to be able to handle well. Even if this bush is removed/trimmed, there are countless other similar situations around the world.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Not stalking you, I promise.So..... After Tesla is done solving Chuck's ULT, here's another challenge. This is my view (mobile phone pic) leaning forward and looking left from this interaction. To get this picture, I manually pulled my car forward as much as possible without nosing into the near traffic lane. This is a right turn only, and the two lanes you see are both for traffic coming from the left.
The left repeater camera is a bit forward of my view (and lower), but that damned bush really blocks the view of oncoming traffic too much. Sometimes that traffic is moving pretty quickly. It's always tricky for human drivers to join the traffic from this location, and even though I'm really careful, sometimes I need to accelerate hard so as not to get in the way of traffic after making the turn.
I've tested FSD Beta here several times, but its behavior seems to be, well -- overly ambitious / confident. Even before the repeater camera can clear the bush to actually see if there's oncoming traffic, FSB Beta sometimes accelerates quickly (and without stopping first) toward the near traffic lane at such speed that I intervene and stop the car before it goes too far and risks a wreck.
That's because there's no way for the car (or me) to actually be certain during the approach that there'll be a sufficient gap in the traffic. It's been surprising to me that FSD Beta seems OK with moving blindly and quickly into unknown traffic.
Yes, I've provided Tesla with lots of feedback!
View attachment 841339
So easy to geolocate things if you see it enough!
This of course is a trivial right turn for a human (I’ve done it myself several times and never thought about it as difficult). I think it should be ok for FSD eventually, due to ample room provided by the sidewalk and bike lane. Proceed with caution. Just have to know what you can see. Also, stay as far to the right as possible.
Slight correction. It is the B-pillar camera. The Repeaters look backwards (located on the fenders) and manly check "blind spot", side cars and road lanes. They also come on when you turn on your signal and can be on with the backup camera.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
On this turn since you are turning right it is possible the repeater might help, depending on your angle. But the b-pillar should see ok with the right strategy I think.
Of course, FSD Beta uses all cameras all the time. I intentionally referenced the repeater because it is the most forward camera, and when my car is turned a bit to the right for the turn, it sees more of the cross traffic and earlier (gets beyond the bush) than the B-piller camera can.
In any case, it's FSD Beta behavior that needs work!
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah, I’ve possibly done 65-70mph there; the limit is 55mph. It’s ok. Just have to make sure no one is coming. I guess next time I go to the post office I’ll have to take a look again, but I remember no difficulties. Wouldn’t even bother with FSD of course; it’s useless for such things.
Give FSD Beta a try there and let me know how it goes for you. (Tesla needs the feedback.) It's been "entertaining" for me! But, that PO is closed now.
I personally don't have any problem pulling out of there, I just don't want to pull out in front of you while you're doing 70 down that road!
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
True. As long as you can see two seconds worth of traffic you will be fine, you have a Tesla. Floor it and turn. Haha. Maybe FSD can employ that strategy in limited visibility situations.
Oh, I just used it a few weeks ago for the last time I guess. Always seemed like an odd location.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
The fundamental problem is this is a dangerous blind intersection. The fact that it’s made so by a bush that can be trimmed or removed makes it even more unacceptable.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I’ll take a picture tomorrow on my way to work. As I recall, it is neither blind nor dangerous (as long as you drive to the right spot, check the bike lane, proceed into the bike lane, then go). I could be wrong. The bush should be trimmed as it improves safety for pedestrians and cyclists (and will be soon I imagine).
I agree. However, FSD will encounter these situations all over. So, Tesla needs to address these.
Hilarious, but maybe I wasn't clear since you seem to have missed my point. Taking (more) photos won't change FSD Beta's behavior there that I experienced and described.
However, using FSD Beta there and intervening when it attempts a dangerous move might help Tesla improve the behavior in this and similar situations.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes it was a bit of an amusing phrasing. I don’t doubt that current FSD is not worth trying; it has no ability to handle this at all, but the point of another picture was to demonstrate that visibility is pretty great on this turn and FSD should have no problem in general, after it is finalized. It’s just a right turn, with progressively more unobstructed sight lines, as consequences increase.
Absolutely, there are literally 100s of thousands of intersections that need brush cleared, fences lowered, poles/pedestals moved or older buildings removed. There is no way to make all intersections ideal for B-pillar camera location. I still feel its fixed location behind your head is a disadvantage that will always be problem. Our heads are on a gimbal and we can duck, lean, tilt and peak that the B-pillar can't do. I still think it will need corner cameras to become full L5.
In the meantime, it'd be nice if FSD Beta didn't sometimes try to blindly blunder into high speed cross traffic at this location without even stopping first.
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