Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

FSD Beta Attempts to Kill Me; Causes Accident

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been trying to work with Tesla to resolve this issue out of the public domain, but they have been characteristically terrible and honestly don't seem to care. Over the last 3 weeks, I have sent multiple emails, followed up via phone calls, escalated through my local service center, and nobody from Tesla corporate has even emailed or called to say they are looking into this. One of my local service center technicians opened a case with engineering, which she said would take 90 days to review. I find that absurd, especially when Tesla is releasing new versions every 2 weeks. I think it's important for people to be extra cautious about which roads they engage FSD beta on, especially since Tesla seems to be ignoring my report entirely.

49548280121_4d220fbae7_c.jpg



This incident happened almost 3 weeks ago on Monday, November 22nd at around 6:15 in the evening, just shortly after the sun had set. I was driving my Tesla Model Y on a two-lane rural road and had FSD engaged. The car was still on version 10.4 at the time. It was a clear night, no rain or adverse weather conditions. Everything was going fine, and I had previously used FSD beta on this stretch of road before without a problem. There was some occasional phantom braking, but that had been sort of common with 10.4.

A right banked curve in this two lane road came up with a vehicle coming around the curve the opposite direction. The Model Y slowed slightly and began making the turn properly and without cause for concern. Suddenly, about 40% of the way through the turn, the Model Y straightened the wheel and crossed over the center line into the direct path of the oncoming vehicle. I reacted as quickly as I could, trying to pull the vehicle back into the lane. I really did not have a lot of time to react, so chose to override FSD by turning the steering wheel since my hands were already on the wheel and I felt this would be the fastest way to avoid a front overlap collision with the oncoming vehicle. When I attempted to pull the vehicle back into my lane, I lost control and skidded off into a ditch and through the woods.

I was pretty shaken up and the car was in pieces. I called for a tow, but I live in a pretty rural area and could not find a tow truck driver who would touch a Tesla. I tried moving the car and heard underbody shields and covers rubbing against the moving wheels. I ended up getting out with a utility knife, climbing under the car, and cutting out several shields, wheel well liners, and other plastic bits that were lodged into the wheels. Surprisingly, the car was drivable and I was able to drive it to the body shop.

Right after the accident, I made the mistake of putting it in park and getting out of the vehicle first to check the situation before I hit the dashcam save button. The drive to the body shop was over an hour long, so the footage was overridden. Luckily, I was able to use some forensic file recovery software to recover the footage off the external hard drive I had plugged in.

In the footage, you can see the vehicle leave the lane, and within about 10 frames, I had already begun pulling back into the lane before losing control and skidding off the road. Since Teslacam records at about 36 frames per second, this would mean I reacted within about 360ms of the lane departure. I understand it is my responsibility to pay attention and maintain control of the vehicle, which I agreed to when I enrolled in FSD beta. I was paying attention, but human reaction does not get much faster than this and I am not sure how I could have otherwise avoided this incident. The speed limit on this road is 55mph. I would estimate FSD was probably going about 45-50mph, but have no way to confirm. I think the corrective steering I applied was too sharp given the speed the vehicle was going, and I lost grip with the pavement. On the 40% speed slowed down version of the clip, you can sort of see the back end of the car break loose in the way the front end starts to wiggle as the mailbox makes its way to the left side of the frame.

Surprisingly, I somehow managed to steer this flying car through a mini-forest, avoiding several trees (although I did knock off the driver's side mirror). There is no side panel damage whatsoever. The bumper cover is ruined and the car sustained fairly severe structural/suspension damage, both front and rear suspension components.

Luckily, nobody was hurt (except my poor car). I could not imagine the weight on my conscience if I had been too slow to intervene and ended up striking that oncoming vehicle. Front overlap collisions are some of the most deadly ways to crash a car, and bodily injury would have been very likely.

I have a perfect driving record and have never had an at-fault accident in the over 10 years I have been licensed. The thought of filing an insurance claim and increasing my premiums over this incident makes me sick. I am considering legal action against Tesla, but I'm not going to get into that here. Just wanted to make everyone aware and hyper-vigilant about FSD. I thought I was, but then this happened. I am going to be much more careful about the situations in which I decide to engage it. There is too much at stake, it is not mature enough, and frankly, Tesla's apathy and lack of communication around this incident really concerns me, as both an owner and a road-user.


tl;dr: Be careful with FSD, folks. And if you get into an accident, hit the dashcam save button or honk your horn before you put it in park.



Display of a Tesla car on autopilot mode showing current speed, remaining estimated range, speed limit and presence of vehicles on motorway lanes” by Marco Verch is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Terminator857

Member
Aug 5, 2019
833
1,000
Ca
Thanks for the warning and the video!
Quote from youtube description:
While FSD was engaged, vehicle swerved at the last second into the opposing lane, heading right for an oncoming car. I pulled the vehicle back into my lane, but lost control and skidded off the road. Significant suspension and frame/subframe damage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T-Mom

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
7,203
7,317
Silicon Valley

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been trying to work with Tesla to resolve this issue out of the public domain, but they have been characteristically terrible and honestly don't seem to care. Over the last 3 weeks, I have sent multiple emails, followed up via phone calls, escalated through my local service center, and nobody from Tesla corporate has even emailed or called to say they are looking into this. One of my local service center technicians opened a case with engineering, which she said would take 90 days to review. I find that absurd, especially when Tesla is releasing new versions every 2 weeks. I think it's important for people to be extra cautious about which roads they engage FSD beta on, especially since Tesla seems to be ignoring my report entirely.

This incident happened almost 3 weeks ago on Monday, November 22nd at around 6:15 in the evening, just shortly after the sun had set. I was driving my Tesla Model Y on a two-lane rural road and had FSD engaged. The car was still on version 10.4 at the time. It was a clear night, no rain or adverse weather conditions. Everything was going fine, and I had previously used FSD beta on this stretch of road before without a problem. There was some occasional phantom braking, but that had been sort of common with 10.4.

A right banked curve in this two lane road came up with a vehicle coming around the curve the opposite direction. The Model Y slowed slightly and began making the turn properly and without cause for concern. Suddenly, about 40% of the way through the turn, the Model Y straightened the wheel and crossed over the center line into the direct path of the oncoming vehicle. I reacted as quickly as I could, trying to pull the vehicle back into the lane. I really did not have a lot of time to react, so chose to override FSD by turning the steering wheel since my hands were already on the wheel and I felt this would be the fastest way to avoid a front overlap collision with the oncoming vehicle. When I attempted to pull the vehicle back into my lane, I lost control and skidded off into a ditch and through the woods.

I was pretty shaken up and the car was in pieces. I called for a tow, but I live in a pretty rural area and could not find a tow truck driver who would touch a Tesla. I tried moving the car and heard underbody shields and covers rubbing against the moving wheels. I ended up getting out with a utility knife, climbing under the car, and cutting out several shields, wheel well liners, and other plastic bits that were lodged into the wheels. Surprisingly, the car was drivable and I was able to drive it to the body shop.

Right after the accident, I made the mistake of putting it in park and getting out of the vehicle first to check the situation before I hit the dashcam save button. The drive to the body shop was over an hour long, so the footage was overridden. Luckily, I was able to use some forensic file recovery software to recover the footage off the external hard drive I had plugged in.

In the footage, you can see the vehicle leave the lane, and within about 10 frames, I had already begun pulling back into the lane before losing control and skidding off the road. Since Teslacam records at about 36 frames per second, this would mean I reacted within about 360ms of the lane departure. I understand it is my responsibility to pay attention and maintain control of the vehicle, which I agreed to when I enrolled in FSD beta. I was paying attention, but human reaction does not get much faster than this and I am not sure how I could have otherwise avoided this incident. The speed limit on this road is 55mph. I would estimate FSD was probably going about 45-50mph, but have no way to confirm. I think the corrective steering I applied was too sharp given the speed the vehicle was going, and I lost grip with the pavement. On the 40% speed slowed down version of the clip, you can sort of see the back end of the car break loose in the way the front end starts to wiggle as the mailbox makes its way to the left side of the frame.

Surprisingly, I somehow managed to steer this flying car through a mini-forest, avoiding several trees (although I did knock off the driver's side mirror). There is no side panel damage whatsoever. The bumper cover is ruined and the car sustained fairly severe structural/suspension damage, both front and rear suspension components.

Luckily, nobody was hurt (except my poor car). I could not imagine the weight on my conscience if I had been too slow to intervene and ended up striking that oncoming vehicle. Front overlap collisions are some of the most deadly ways to crash a car, and bodily injury would have been very likely.

I have a perfect driving record and have never had an at-fault accident in the over 10 years I have been licensed. The thought of filing an insurance claim and increasing my premiums over this incident makes me sick. I am considering legal action against Tesla, but I'm not going to get into that here. Just wanted to make everyone aware and hyper-vigilant about FSD. I thought I was, but then this happened. I am going to be much more careful about the situations in which I decide to engage it. There is too much at stake, it is not mature enough, and frankly, Tesla's apathy and lack of communication around this incident really concerns me, as both an owner and a road-user.


tl;dr: Be careful with FSD, folks. And if you get into an accident, hit the dashcam save button or honk your horn before you put it in park.
Sorry to see the accident and glad you are ok.

Based on the video evidence, you appear to have a strong case that the FSD failed to negotiate the curve and steered you into oncoming traffic.
If you want to get a response from Tesla, you will need to formally request the data logs via an attorney and press for answers on the FSD failure.

Good luck with your claim and keep us posted on TMC. If all else fails you can contact your local TV news station and use the leverage of the press.
 

Terminator857

Member
Aug 5, 2019
833
1,000
Ca
Sorry to see the accident and glad you are ok.

Based on the video evidence, you appear to have a strong case that the FSD failed to negotiate the curve and steered you into oncoming traffic.
If you want to get a response from Tesla, you will need to formally request the data logs via an attorney and press for answers on the FSD failure.

Good luck with your claim and keep us posted on TMC. If all else fails you can contact your local TV news station and use the leverage of the press.
What would be the case/claim? Tesla doesn't claim FSD is safe and they claim the opposite, can do the wrong thing at the worst time. Driver must be in control at all times.
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,565
33,602
Seattle, WA
Based on the video evidence, you appear to have a strong case that the FSD failed to negotiate the curve and steered you into oncoming traffic.
If you want to get a response from Tesla, you will need to formally request the data logs via an attorney and press for answers on the FSD failure.
You realize it is FSD beta, right ? Ofcourse could have happened in AP Beta too.

Oh yes, pls do involve attorneys and press. Don't forget to short the stock before that ;)
 

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
7,203
7,317
Silicon Valley
What would be the case/claim? Tesla doesn't claim FSD is safe and they claim the opposite, can do the wrong thing at the worst time. Driver must be in control at all times.
You realize it is FSD beta, right ? Ofcourse could have happened in AP Beta too.
Oh yes, pls do involve attorneys and press. Don't forget to short the stock before that ;)

The video clearly shows the FSD steering the vehicle directly into oncoming traffic... creating a potentially fatal situation that was narrowly avoided.
Tesla should welcome the opportunity to investigate this situation and make immediate corrections... they have a poor track record in this regard.
 
Last edited:

Justin.

Member
Jun 10, 2016
6
14
Miami
Is the Safety Score process not sufficient?
I mean, nothing is 100%. Just glad the new 10.6 beta is more strict on paying attention.

Not sure if the driver here was using FSD beta or not (no video evidence shown), but either way was clearly not paying attention. Then when they realized they messed up, over corrected.
 
You can take legal actions all day and probably join others that is doing the same thing but at the end of the day, this IS BETA fsd which is stated everywhere before you hit the approve button. Yes you did take control when you needed to but given the situation...well it was a bad situation in general so i doubt this case will go further than just probably saying what i just said earlier.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
12,411
14,771
Riverside Co. CA
(not moderator notes, personal comment only, representing no one but jjrandorin the regular poster)

If OP wanted some reaction other than is already going on in this thread (and will likely continue), they should have picked a MUCH less "clickbait" thread title. Speaking for myself only (as I said above, and NOT MODERATION CONTENT), when a thread has such an obviously "clickbait" thread title, its almost impossible for me to take any of the content seriously.

The thread title ensures that the conversation will turn the way it already is, and likely will continue in that vein.
 

Bimbels

GoldMember
Jan 18, 2016
647
492
Newport, RI
You overreacted when you took over. By a lot. I’ve had FSDBeta do similar and I simply tap the brake to disengage and take over with zero drama.

As you know, the software is beta and we are told we must be prepared to take over as the car might try to do the worst thing at the worst time. How you react when to are doing the driving is not in Tesla’s control.
 

orion2001

Member
Apr 14, 2021
288
750
NC
As mentioned before, I would report this to NHTSA. I feel terrible for you and I'm not at all surprised that Tesla doesn't care. Frankly, this is why it boggles my mind that people are willing to pay $10K for the luxury of being guinea pigs for Tesla while taking on all the liability and risk on Tesla's behalf. Sure is a sweet deal for Tesla.

This video is a poster child for why FSD should be geofenced and only allowed on larger, divided highways. No amount of attention and training is going to help you avoid bad accidents when FSD is so unreliable that it can swerve into oncoming traffic at a moments notice. I work in the field, and have a ton of respect for Karpathy, but it is plainly obvious that they are still nowhere near "solving" FSD when the car can make ridiculous maneuvers as shown in the video. Even a 5 year old has a better understanding of the world than Tesla's FSD black box neural networks if that was the best decision it could make in that situation.

The silver lining in all of this... At least you didn't experience phantom braking with oncoming traffic. Tesla sure did solve that problem well /s

...and queue the down votes 😄
 

Bill Foster

I'm going home!
Mar 6, 2019
934
893
Nashville
As mentioned before, I would report this to NHTSA. I feel terrible for you and I'm not at all surprised that Tesla doesn't care. Frankly, this is why it boggles my mind that people are willing to pay $10K for the luxury of being guinea pigs for Tesla while taking on all the liability and risk on Tesla's behalf. Sure is a sweet deal for Tesla.

This video is a poster child for why FSD should be geofenced and only allowed on larger, divided highways. No amount of attention and training is going to help you avoid bad accidents when FSD is so unreliable that it can swerve into oncoming traffic at a moments notice. I work in the field, and have a ton of respect for Karpathy, but it is plainly obvious that they are still nowhere near "solving" FSD when the car can make ridiculous maneuvers as shown in the video. Even a 5 year old has a better understanding of the world than Tesla's FSD black box neural networks if that was the best decision it could make in that situation.

The silver lining in all of this... At least you didn't experience phantom braking with oncoming traffic. Tesla sure did solve that problem well /s

...and queue the down votes 😄
If that’s the way you feel, don’t use it
 

AndreP

Member
Apr 22, 2021
373
450
United States
I don't know if legal action would do anything, but this is a concerning sequence of events and there is likely action that can be taken to prevent similar occurrences in the future

If that’s the way you feel, don’t use it

The NHTSA is there to ensure safety on public roads and events like this put other road users, pedestrians, etc at danger. People can put their own lives at risk all they want.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top