-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
FSD Beta in the UK?
- Thread starter Zilla91
- Start date
goRt
Active Member
Vehicle Certification Agency
Vehicle Type Approval is the confirmation that production samples of a type of vehicle, vehicle system, component or separate technical unit will meet specified performance standards.
www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk
Looks like we will accept a UN Type Approval but not EU Type Approval. We now have our own GB Type Approval. At least we got rid of the EU red tape (well done, pat on the back).
If we’re lucky the tests/requirements are close enough that a certification body might sign off both at the same time (for additional fee).
Well provided we comply with UNECE which is mostly copy/pasted into both EU/UK law (not literally, there are clauses that do it) it's probably just a formality. Tesla often say EU when they mean UNECE so we don't know the details.
Sean.
Active Member
MrBadger
Badger out
Vehicle Certification Agency
Vehicle Type Approval is the confirmation that production samples of a type of vehicle, vehicle system, component or separate technical unit will meet specified performance standards.
Looks like we will accept a UN Type Approval but not EU Type Approval. We now have our own GB Type Approval. At least we got rid of the EU red tape (well done, pat on the back).
If we’re lucky the tests/requirements are close enough that a certification body might sign off both at the same time (for additional fee).
I don't think much has changed in reality. Both UK and EU type approval past and present effectively follow the UNECE regs (although many incorrectly associated the UNECE as European, they are not, they are worldwide for anyone who signed up for them, ie not the US), the difference now is that our type approval is separate to the EU one and directly linked to either our own, or the UNECE one. Previously we followed the UNECE ones by using the EU ones, which followed the UNECE ones.
So now, we can make our own rules and/or follow the UN rules which is a good thing, but will no longer have any EU specific rules, which may be good or bad.
As far as something like FSD is concerned, I am pretty sure that we need to be UK type approved, or be UNECE type approved with additional conformity to UK driving regulations. So just because parts of EAP/FSD-NoA theoretically could, IF capable, be L3 approved under UNECE r157, it would effectively also need to be UK highway code conformant. But passing the UNECE 157 regs would be the big step, but that wouldn't automatically make it UK compliant and it would need to be added to the compliant vehicle register which last time I looked had a grand total of 0 vehicles on it which would imply that the Mercedes that last year met the previous (speed limited) UNECE 157 regs, does not currently meet UK regulations.
The residents of San Francisco must be thrilled with that decision...
www.thetimes.co.uk
San Francisco, the city driven to distraction by autonomous car glitches
By the time one of San Francisco’s growing fleet of self-driving taxis chanced upon a huge fire on Hayes Street it had trained for “millions of miles”, its manu
www.thetimes.co.uk
MrBadger
Badger out
Yep. I over simplified. Any country can be signed up to UNECE, but they can pick and choose exactly what reg you adopt. So in this case, the US are part of UNECE, but have decided not to adopt any of the UNECE R79/R157 type regulations that govern AP/EAP/FSD type functionality although I am not sure how/if federal and state legislation affects this . As above, its often used as a basis to harmonise regulations across different regions.
If anyone is interested who is signed up to UNECE and when
Well if approved I assume you could have the same system operating as L3, i.e: without driver supervision (hands on wheel nag) on selected roads (and liability shift) and still work as L2 like current US FSD everywhere else…
Musk has said 90% of what they've done in the US is applicable here (when they launch the FSDb). I always thought in software anyone quoting the "90%" thing was a sign of total naivety?
t2informatik.de
What is the 90-Percent-Done Syndrome? - Smartpedia - t2informatik
The 90-Percent-Done Syndrome is an overly positive assessment of the degree of completion, according to which the real remaining effort is significantly higher than the estimated 10%.
t2informatik.de
goRt
Active Member
The easy 90% is done, the impossible 10% may take slightly longer, but trust me, it will be ready in 2 weeksMusk has said 90% of what they've done in the US is applicable here (when they launch the FSDb). I always thought in software anyone quoting the "90%" thing was a sign of total naivety?
What is the 90-Percent-Done Syndrome? - Smartpedia - t2informatik
The 90-Percent-Done Syndrome is an overly positive assessment of the degree of completion, according to which the real remaining effort is significantly higher than the estimated 10%.
It's known as the 90/90 rule of development. The first 90% takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.
He may be right though as aside from local rules the actual driving bit is fairly standard.. it really depends whether that's a bit of an iceberg and if 'local rules' comprises the extra 90%..
He may be right though as aside from local rules the actual driving bit is fairly standard.. it really depends whether that's a bit of an iceberg and if 'local rules' comprises the extra 90%..
goRt
Active Member
There's 2 parts to the software - the "single stack" which is the interpretation of the camera feeds (was frame analysis, now going to video) and the planner (turn left in 2 miles so start moving to the nearside etc.)
Well designed software would allow the substitution of the single stack into the existing planner
FSDb has been coming for 12 months in the USA - draw your own conclusions
Oh I don't think they'll meet any of their deadlines, they never have yet.. I don't think musk has shown he has much idea of how long things are really going to take.. he seems to just announce releases and expects them to happen because he said so.
thegruf
Active Member
referring back to Elon's "EU in summer 2022, Right hand drive markets a few months later"
I guess this means that there is no point hoping for FSD in UK until EU have it, after which we have to wait a few (Elon) months for the UK.
In the meantime the best we can hope for is the single stack software builds that should at least substantially improve the current mostly useless functionality.
Having driven Teslas since 2015, hand on heart I can say that the mobileye based AP1 is better (even if arguably less capable) to use than my current car with FSD is today. And for sure this is really very disappointing.
I need to change my car, and for the first time in years I am undecided (not the least that I couldn't even buy another model S in the UK now if I wanted to). Most perplexing.
I guess this means that there is no point hoping for FSD in UK until EU have it, after which we have to wait a few (Elon) months for the UK.
In the meantime the best we can hope for is the single stack software builds that should at least substantially improve the current mostly useless functionality.
Having driven Teslas since 2015, hand on heart I can say that the mobileye based AP1 is better (even if arguably less capable) to use than my current car with FSD is today. And for sure this is really very disappointing.
I need to change my car, and for the first time in years I am undecided (not the least that I couldn't even buy another model S in the UK now if I wanted to). Most perplexing.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
me too . I was fortunate to get me Model-S shortly before the Mobile-eye fallout - which meant I was owning it whilst AP was being built-and-not-shipped
My replacement Model-S Raven has FSD ...
I don't think I draw quite as beak a comparison as you do. Maybe I don't have clear recollection of the Mobile eye version - its been a while. I seem to remember that mobileye would read the gantry (variable) speed limits on motorway (but not adjust the speed??)
I also can't remember what it used to do for my local village speed limits - 60 into 40, then 30, then 40, then back to 60. Current AP slows down for each, and speeds up as they finish. It will quite happily drive the sharp double bend in one of the villages. Its less than 10 miles (A-Road) to "town", current AP will drive that without intervention (provided white can man hasn't parked half-off the pavement somewhere). I don't think Mobileye could do that (I must have tried it, its my "is new version any better" test route - but I don't remember what Mobileye ability was at the time). I don't use AP on A-Roads other than test review as there isn't any benefit - other than maybe bumper-to-bumper stop-start traffic
Going along motorway with AP - I'm happy. I very rarely get any phantom braking (unlike others). NoA is handy when it heads for nearside lane / ramp, when I have not registered any of the SatNav "Take the next exit" instructions ...
My Raven is still young enough I can hang on ... and I'm figuring on waiting for the Plaid
It went like this:
Golf Blue Motion (several in a row, until shafted by DieselGate)
2015 Pony'd up for a P90D - probably 3x price of Golf - did 95K miles in that
Replaced with a non-performance 'coz ... you know ... after demo'd to all my mates didn't need Performance any more and it was alarmingly sudden / brutal for passengers
Now? attraction of owning/trying Plaid is in the "can't afford not to have it" category ...
