FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

[Tam]

Imagine the Ogans of the early 1900s would be calling to cancel air flights because of the accidents that happened during those initial days.

When there were three fatalities in Appolo1, NASA didn't cancel the program, but it didn't send any overconfident messages like let's send a teacher to the moon this year.

If an airplane cannot fly, that's a failure.

If a Self Driving Car cannot drive itself without a human driver, that's a failure.

There's no need to cancel a program when there's a failure but to put out statements to gloss over the failure as if there's none, then that is problematic.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It can already drive without human intervention in a huge set of locations.

Do you have a different build?

To get that to 100% will happen sometime in the future. One year? five years? no one knows.

Even close to 100% (with reasonable restrictions on the ODD like weather or whatever) is not going to happen with current HW in my opinion. And for sure it's going to take at least 3-5 more years to seem "pretty good" (with different hardware of course). But I never expected it to be successful, so it really doesn't bother me that FSD is continuing to do things like this and will for the foreseeable future.

However, presenting the the system as more capable than it actually is potentially costs lives, so I think it's important to not be too sanguine about FSD.

But pointing out the still to be ironed out rough edges to project a false sense complete failure while completely ignoring the progress, reflects poorly on the person than on the program

I think it's fine for people to be disappointed because they aren't getting what they expected. I don't think it's a complete failure, though it's not a useful system at all at the current time. It only becomes useful when it is good enough, which is a very long way off, but it is going to have to make incremental progress over time to get to that point, so we can't expect all of a sudden it to work correctly (whether or not there should be people using it during that time showing the visible progression (and failures) is a relevant question though).

 

[gearchruncher]

Elon should definitely stop with his FSD predictions. His history on this subject is poor.

That said, Ogan does have a history of only reporting one side to show negative bias on practically every Tesla topic.

I love that when Elon says something, he's just bad at timelines, and yeah, maybe he should stop that, but oh well, that's Elon, yep, he'll take your $$$ and not deliver anything, what did you expect?

When someone else says something, they are negative, biased shorts that should just be ignored.

Elon is just as biased and should get just as much criticism as you levy at anyone that is overly negative. Elon is endlessly positive, but with the addition of actually taking money against his positivity. If you're going to ignore Ogan because they have a history of only reporting negative, you need to ignore Elon who has even more of a history of only reporting positives.

Or you could take the more nuanced view of considering both and realizing the reality is in-between..... But still solidly L2

 

[mhan00]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1552110135539007490

Cool. Dumbass has his hands off the wheel, hits a curb and grabs the wheel after. Then proceeds to let go of the wheel again. Lmao.

 

[JulienW]

Cool. Dumbass has his hands off the wheel, hits a curb and grabs the wheel after.....

After........??? Looks like before to me.

 

[Electroman]

Anyone who "complains or whines" about FSD beta doing this wrong or did that wrong.. is a dumbass.

And anyone who does that with the sole purpose of creating FUD is a scum. And who takes that as a mission and searches the internet to highlight only those videos is a scumbag. Ogan is a scumbag.

 

[gearchruncher]

Anyone who "complains or whines" about FSD beta doing this wrong or did that wrong.. is a dumbass.

And anyone who does that with the sole purpose of creating FUD is a scum. And who takes that as a mission and searches the internet to highlight only those videos is a scumbag. Ogan is a scumbag.

Of course! Because clearly "Full Self Driving" hitting thigs is exactly what you should expect. Dumbass if you think otherwise.

Elon selling FSD since 2016 with a video saying the driver is only there for legal purposes is totally cool, and not confusing at all. And tweeting that it's only a few months away means he's a hero! Totally honest, unbiased, not a scummy thing to do.

The fact he keeps raising the price just tells you how much of a hero he is. Collecting money long before the product is ready, selling features you don't have any idea how to deliver? Not scum! Only complaining about this makes you scum. Don't you know about the S curve?

Calling people Pedos with no evidence, claiming ex-leadership had minimal impact on Tesla, calling Democrats the party of hate, claiming to buy Twitter because you want free speech then firing a bunch of employees that request you tweet less? All totally cool! Pushback on FSD? SCUMBAG! How dare someone publish videos of a product driving on a public road making mistakes? Won't you please think of the investors?

 

[Tam]

Anyone who "complains or whines" about FSD beta doing this wrong or did that wrong.. is a dumbass....

It's fine that many testers don't get into accidents, but because of the FSD's nature that it can do unexpected things, steering the wrong way, braking at the wrong time, and red steering wheel icon to quit with no advanced warnings..., I don't think it's appropriate for an average licensed driver.

An average licensed driver passed the driving test without the above tricks in a fraction of a second. Thus, FSD beta needs to be a more than average driver with attentive skills and quick reflexes. It helps if these testers are familiar with FSD beta's behaviors so they can heighten their attention and be ready to react when they approach every single curb, every single truck, and every empty space in front (phantom brakes).

Tesla does know more than average driving skills needed that's why there's a Safety Score. However, is Safety Score adequate or not is another challenge to work on.

 

[FLMan]

Tesla does know more than average driving skills needed that's why there's a Safety Score. However, is Safety Score adequate or not is another challenge to work on.

I never saw the point of the safety score or why they turn it off when you get the beta. Anyone can game the system to get a decent score and keep it. It's not hard.

What I don't understand is why people go to all the trouble to get the beta just to run their car into scenarios they know the software can't handle and pretend like it's an amazing failure to collect likes on the internet. The guy that hit the curb didn't even use the "report to Tesla" button after hitting the curb. Quality beta testing there.

 

[gearchruncher]

I never saw the point of the safety score or why they turn it off when you get the beta.

They still track your behavior, pretty famously: Tesla Punishing Inattentive FSD Beta Testers By Taking Beta Away.

What I don't understand is why people go to all the trouble to get the beta just to run their car into scenarios they know the software can't handle and pretend like it's an amazing failure to collect likes on the internet.

Tesla calls this "full self driving." How do you know what it can and cannot handle without trying it out? Tesla doesn't even publish a USER MANUAL or change logs for FSD beta. How are you supposed to know what is acceptable and what is not, or if it improved? How are you supposed to know when to use the report to Tesla button? This is all squarely on Tesla for not running this like a safety critical program at all. They are literally asking their drivers to just go try the real world out and see what happens.

Plus, pick a lane- you can't both admonish people for trying something and then also call them beta testers. The whole point of beta is for the testers to try things the creators have not yet tried yet to find the corner cases.

The idea that FSD is in "beta" because they are actually looking for feedback is laughable. It's just a marketing name so Tesla has an excuse when it's terrible compared to the hype, and an excuse for why they won't release it more widely. Plus, Auto wipers are in beta. All of Autopilot is in beta. Do you report to Tesla every time those systems do something less than perfect? If not, you're a pretty terrible beta tester too. At least those beta systems have a user manual though.

 

[mhan00]

Huh, apt title for the vid since I have never seen this before. The car comes up to an intersection and stops at a red light with the lane closed in the other side and re-routes while sitting at the red light to avoid the closed road.

 

[mhan00]

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/wojm4f

Interesting drone footage Chuck took of Tesla’s car supposedly testing out the next FSD update handling his UPL. No way to know what is being done by the car or what is being done by the driver since it is all exterior footage, but It is fairly likely most of it was being done by the car. The really important thing, of course, isn’t how Beta will handle this one specific turn, but whether or not learning how to do this turn improves its ability to handle UPLs in general.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

way to know what is being done by the car or what is being done by the driver since it is all exterior footage, but It is fairly likely most of it was being done by the car.

Yes, I have never seen any human drive that way, so other than possible accelerator encouragement, it seems to be mostly the car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Fred’s test and experience.

The girlfriend was surprisingly tolerant but it ended the way it always does, with a “WTF.” Haha. Such a classic and typical experience.

I do kind of wish FSD Beta could determine an appropriate speed for the road. It knows exactly what the turns are, so should be able to smoothly adjust the set limit (one of the issues here is that the speed was set too high).

Note that a 3mph decrease in speed was noted as a significant phantom braking event. That’s a key thing to watch for in these videos to determine how smooth it is. Really never want to see that speed changing quickly, or at least want to see a nice low jerk profile.

 

[JulienW]

Today (Aug 18) after rain.

 

[mhan00]

Impressive drive from Chuck. It is looking like there are general improvements to all UPLs in Chuck’s area and not just that one turn. One bad roundabout where it cut off a car, but it was a slow speed area and it is worth noting that the roundabouts are totally new and not yet mapped and yet the car handled 3 of the 4 fine, but that one where it screwed up is of course the most important one. No one’s life would have been in danger (which is the advantage of roundabouts as opposed to standard intersections), but the other driver would be understandably pissed.

 

[mhan00]

Super impressive UPLs. One was very very iffy since it was taking so long with a car incoming, but it looked like it would have barely cleared the lane the car was in before it got there even if Chuck hadn’t intervened. But it wouldn’t have been comfortable for either driver. The oncoming car could have easily gone around if necessary, but if I was driving That car I would have been asking “What is that moron doing!? If you’re going to go, GO!” while doing it. The car also handled other UPLs other than the one Chuck always tests, but not quite as smoothly. Still, it does look like there are general improvements to UPLs, at least the ones in Chuck’s area.

 

[JulienW]

DirtyTesla

 

[diplomat33]

One bad roundabout where it cut off a car, but it was a slow speed area and it is worth noting that the roundabouts are totally new and not yet mapped and yet the car handled 3 of the 4 fine, but that one where it screwed up is of course the most important one. No one’s life would have been in danger (which is the advantage of roundabouts as opposed to standard intersections), but the other driver would be understandably pissed.

IMO, that was a screwup by FSD Beta. Cutting off another driver like that is bad. Sure, it was slow enough that nobody would have died, but it could have been an accident if the other car was not paying attention and/or moving faster. And cutting off another driver like that is still very bad IMO.

And handling 3 out of the 4 roundabouts is not impressive. That is only 75% success.

 

[mhan00]

IMO, that was a screwup by FSD Beta. Cutting off another driver like that is bad. Sure, it was slow enough that nobody would have died, but it could have been an accident if the other car was not paying attention and/or moving faster. And cutting off another driver like that is still very bad IMO.

And handling 3 out of the 4 roundabouts is not impressive. That is only 75% success.

The impressive part was the car handling roundabouts at all that conflict with the map data. It was vision overriding map. And I noted that it was a screwup in my original post.