FSD features to start rolling out in August...

[daniel]

Those lying... They said autopilot makes them safer and I paid money's for it.

It does make the car safer. If you use it according to the instructions, which is to say be ready to take control at any moment.

My fear of the bad PR is after driver responsibility is removed. When the car is literally just driving a passenger around. Elon seems to think that time is less than 2 years from now, but of course, it is very difficult to see how that could be possible.

Elon is a chrono-optimist. That inspires him to aim high. But it also creates totally unrealistic expectations.

Why are FSD features being rolled out in EAP?

Shouldn't you have purchased FSD to get FSD features?

No FSD features have been rolled out as EAP. There is wild speculation about what features will be in the FSD package and which will be in the EAP package. But we have no actual details about what features will be in which package. And the whole discussion is further obfuscated by the fact that the term "FSD" is being used to mean two totally different things: It means a car that drives itself without driver input, but it also means a package of as-yet unspecified options being offered for upload to the cars gradually over an unspecified period of time.

For the foreseeable future both packages are collections of driver-assist features. But we don't know which features will be in which package, except for Elon's promise that at some unspecified time, cars with the FSD package will become actual FSD cars, capable of operating without anybody in the car.

It would be nice if Tesla would release a statement listing which features will be in the EAP package and which will be in the FSD package, and when they will become available. But of course, Tesla's promises about when things will be available are unreliable due to Elon's chrono-optimism.

This is a wonderful car as it exists today. It will become a better car as more driver-assist features are rolled out, along with features that have been promised that we are still waiting for, like wi-fi connectivity for those of us with poor cell service from crapola AT&T.

 

[Krazaak]

I mean, by definition it has to be different.

For one FSD uses 8 cameras instead of 4 per the definition of each feature from Tesla so it'll be more capable... but for another-


FSD-

"The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat"

EAP-

"Enhanced Autopilot should still be considered a driver's assistance feature with the driver responsible for remaining in control of the car at all times"



EAP requires you to remain in control of the vehicle, including keeping your hands on the wheel.

FSD explicitly requires nothing from the driver when in use.

This remains true even on freeways.

So while I agree there'll be a much broader difference in capabilities off of highways, there's still a difference (or will be) even then.

It's an issue of semantics, I think; features vs. capabilities.

Once FSD is released, even EAP only cars are going to have FSD capabilities. An EAP vehicle would be 100% capable of driving down the highway with no driver, but it's unlikely to have that feature enabled. That means that even if there's still a steering wheel nag, then it's nothing more than an artificial barrier to encourage people to purchase FSD.

FSD is going to bring a features above and beyond what EAP provides, but all of the underlying capabilities are going to make EAP better.

 

[Knightshade]

It's an issue of semantics, I think; features vs. capabilities.

Once FSD is released, even EAP only cars are going to have FSD capabilities. An EAP vehicle would be 100% capable of driving down the highway with no driver, but it's unlikely to have that feature enabled. That means that even if there's still a steering wheel nag, then it's nothing more than an artificial barrier to encourage people to purchase FSD.

FSD is going to bring a features above and beyond what EAP provides, but all of the underlying capabilities are going to make EAP better.

I'm not really following you.

I mean- the hardware is the same on all new cars- even if you don't have FSD or EAP.

So a car without either feature is just as "capable" as one with them but the features aren't enabled.

 

[daniel]

Everything posted in this thread is baseless speculation, except for the fact that Elon has said they will begin in August to roll out features for the "FSD" package. (Which will not make the car FSD, as that will require years more of development and then regulatory approval.)

I speculate (and I'm pretty darn confident of this) that all these new features will still require constant and uninterrupted driver vigilance. I.e., we won't get eyes-off-the-road for a very long time.

 

[d21mike]

I mean, by definition it has to be different.

For one FSD uses 8 cameras instead of 4 per the definition of each feature from Tesla so it'll be more capable... but for another-


FSD-

"The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat"

EAP-

"Enhanced Autopilot should still be considered a driver's assistance feature with the driver responsible for remaining in control of the car at all times"



EAP requires you to remain in control of the vehicle, including keeping your hands on the wheel.

FSD explicitly requires nothing from the driver when in use.

This remains true even on freeways.

So while I agree there'll be a much broader difference in capabilities off of highways, there's still a difference (or will be) even then.

Really not sure how Tesla will roll this stuff out and maybe will change over time. They say with EAP the car will do ON-RAMP to OFF-RAMP making the decision itself to change lanes which to means the driver does not have to tell it to do so. And by definition FSD should do that pretty much exactly the same. Maybe they will have a NAG for a EAP Car at first. But I believe at some point on Freeways the cars will work the same even if both cars get 8 cameras on Freeways. But on surface streets I expect is where the real differences are. But even there I am surprised they would let a EAP Car just run a RED Light. I think they would need to do something about that. It can not be just NAV on surface streets where the separation is but who knows. And for me if the only real difference is surface streets I would have no problem with the extra 3k being only for that. I just think if a car on the Freeway with EAP got into a serious accident simply because it does not have the FSD Option would a PR Problem that is simply not worth it when you have the surface street difference.

 

[kbM3]

Here’s my guess for an August introduced FSD feature:

In conjunction with Supercharger V3, Tesla will introduce automated charging. For Superchargers that are in a private lot, you will be able to pull up to an establishment in that lot, and the car will go charge and then park itself, and you will be able to summon it to pick you up.

 

[daniel]

I'm not really following you.

I mean- the hardware is the same on all new cars- even if you don't have FSD or EAP.

So a car without either feature is just as "capable" as one with them but the features aren't enabled.

The car is not "just as capable" unless the same software is installed. They could install different software depending on which package you've paid for. Hardware is useless without software to control it. The only benefit is that since we all have the hardware, it's a trivial matter to upgrade to a higher package via an OTA update, if you want to pay for it.

Cars have been computer controlled for a long time. Tesla is breaking new ground by making the software more easily upgradable, which opens the way for constant improvements, but also allows them to sell an unfinished product. (No wi-fi, crappy interface for music, less-than-stellar AP, poorly-though-out locking/unlocking, etc.)

 

[Knightshade]

The car is not "just as capable" unless the same software is installed. They could install different software depending on which package you've paid for. Hardware is useless without software to control it. The only benefit is that since we all have the hardware, it's a trivial matter to upgrade to a higher package via an OTA update, if you want to pay for it.

Not sure how that changes the point. EAP and FSD cars as well as cars without either, will be running the same "base" OS/app package... and EAP will have some additional features unlocked/available, including use of more of the hardware than non-EAP cars.. and FSD will have some additional ones beyond EAP including use of more hardware than EAP cars .

Really not sure how Tesla will roll this stuff out and maybe will change over time. They say with EAP the car will do ON-RAMP to OFF-RAMP making the decision itself to change lanes which to means the driver does not have to tell it to do so. And by definition FSD should do that pretty much exactly the same. Maybe they will have a NAG for a EAP Car at first. But I believe at some point on Freeways the cars will work the same even if both cars get 8 cameras on Freeways.

Not sure why you'd think that. Only FSD gets 8 cameras and EAP gets 4

For another EAP requires not just responding to nags, but being aware and alert the entire time to take over immediately if needed, while FSD requires nothing of the sort and the driver isn't required to take any action the entire trip.

But on surface streets I expect is where the real differences are. But even there I am surprised they would let a EAP Car just run a RED Light. I think they would need to do something about that.

Why?

They let an EAP car speed today and the software can already detect that is happening in most cases.

It can not be just NAV on surface streets where the separation is but who knows. And for me if the only real difference is surface streets I would have no problem with the extra 3k being only for that. I just think if a car on the Freeway with EAP got into a serious accident simply because it does not have the FSD Option would a PR Problem that is simply not worth it when you have the surface street difference.

Again- why?

Cars get into accidents TODAY both with, and without, various safety features.

The only reason it would get into one with EAP, but not FSD, would be if the driver was not paying attention- which is something EAP requires, and FSD does not.

That's the drivers fault, not the cars.

 

[d21mike]

Not sure how that changes the point. EAP and FSD cars as well as cars without either, will be running the same "base" OS/app package... and EAP will have some additional features unlocked/available, including use of more of the hardware than non-EAP cars.. and FSD will have some additional ones beyond EAP including use of more hardware than EAP cars .






Not sure why you'd think that. Only FSD gets 8 cameras and EAP gets 4

For another EAP requires not just responding to nags, but being aware and alert the entire time to take over immediately if needed, while FSD requires nothing of the sort and the driver isn't required to take any action the entire trip.





Why?

They let an EAP car speed today and the software can already detect that is happening in most cases.






Again- why?

Cars get into accidents TODAY both with, and without, various safety features.

The only reason it would get into one with EAP, but not FSD, would be if the driver was not paying attention- which is something EAP requires, and FSD does not.

That's the drivers fault, not the cars.

You said that "Only FSD gets 8 cameras and EAP gets 4". That is because the web site says so. But I said "they could change that and allow EAP to use all 8 cameras on the "freeway" because it would be a good decision to do so. I gave my reason on why it would be a good "business" decision to do so (I use PR because that is a simply a business decision). Regarding surface streets. I said I have an issue with cars running red lights or stop signs. They say on the web site that AP is designed for freeways but they let it work on surface streets. On my surface streets near my home there are a lot of elementary schools with crossing guards. Letting a car speed is one thing that all cars can do but letting a car under the control of AP run a STOP SIGN and hit a 1/2 dozen kids in the cross walk is a completely different thing. The first time a AP Car runs down kids in a cross walk with be a huge huge problem. You think getting rid of guns gets people going. My point is that I think at some point they may just not allow your to use AP on surface streets because of the potential for this kind of accident. Remember the rules are at times to protect others and not simply to protect the driver. And driving is a privilege not a right. Of course this is just my 2 cents.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

The only reason it would get into one with EAP, but not FSD, would be if the driver was not paying attention- which is something EAP requires, and FSD does not.

That's the drivers fault, not the cars.

When did Tesla say FSD doesn't require driver attention?

 

[chronopc]

When did Tesla say FSD doesn't require driver attention?

Here's what Tesla says on their website about FSD. It says that FSD is designed to conduct trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat. It implies that you don't need to pay attention. Although, I personally still would be.

Full Self-Driving Capability
Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

 

[daniel]

EAP and FSD cars as well as cars without either, will be running the same "base" OS/app package...

That's a speculation. We do not know if the cars will be running the same or different software.

Only FSD gets 8 cameras and EAP gets 4

They could change their minds about that.

For another EAP requires not just responding to nags, but being aware and alert the entire time to take over immediately if needed, while FSD requires nothing of the sort and the driver isn't required to take any action the entire trip.

You are conflating actual Full Self Driving with the package of driver-assist features that Tesla has decided to call "FSD." They are two different things. The definition of full self driving is that the car does not need a driver present. The first implementation of the features Tesla is bundling into its "FSD" package will very definitely require full driver attention.

They let an EAP car speed today and the software can already detect that is happening in most cases.

On most roads today, most drivers drive a bit over the posted speed limit. While this is illegal, it can be argued that under some conditions, it would be unsafe to drive significantly slower than the flow of traffic. However, running a red light or a stop sign often results in crashes. For this reason, stop-sign recognition and traffic-light recognition will be analogous to autosteer: Both will require constant driver vigilance.

I guarantee you that in Tesla's first implementation of stop-sign and traffic-light recognition, you will see the same kinds of warnings you now see for autosteer: "This is a BETA feature. You must remain alert and ready to take over at all times."

So-called "FSD" features will not allow you to take your eyes off the road because they will not make the car an FSD car. True FSD cars (eyes off the road) are five to ten years away. Don't imagine that calling a feature package FSD suddenly makes the car full self driving.

 

[Krazaak]

I'm not really following you.

I mean- the hardware is the same on all new cars- even if you don't have FSD or EAP.

So a car without either feature is just as "capable" as one with them but the features aren't enabled.

Consider it like this.

Right now, the cars aren't capable of any full self driving features, but if we assume at some point they will be, we could have two different features.

EAP: Drive on the highway, changing lanes automatically in traffic, 30 second hands on wheel nag.

FSD: Drive from your house to destination, using the same highway as EAP above, since it's FSD there are no nags.

While it's on the highway, EAP and the highway portion of FSD are almost guaranteed to be using the same underlying software capabilities. The nag is nothing more than a flag saying you need to pay attention because you didn't buy FSD. If there's a firetruck stopped in a lane, then FSD requires the car be capable of avoiding it. EAP should benefit from those same capabilities and not crash into it if you decide not to disengage EAP and steer.

That's the point I was trying to make, which is regardless of which individual features are bundled inside the EAP and FSD packages, it's almost guaranteed that the underlying software will be shared. Once FSD is completely released, then EAP even though it has fewer features should be near perfect. It may not let you drive with your hands off the wheel, but only because Tesla wants you to buy FSD, not because it isn't safe to not pay attention.

 

[daniel]

Consider it like this.

Right now, the cars aren't capable of any full self driving features, but if we assume at some point they will be, we could have two different features.

EAP: Drive on the highway, changing lanes automatically in traffic, 30 second hands on wheel nag.

FSD: Drive from your house to destination, using the same highway as EAP above, since it's FSD there are no nags.

While it's on the highway, EAP and the highway portion of FSD are almost guaranteed to be using the same underlying software capabilities. The nag is nothing more than a flag saying you need to pay attention because you didn't buy FSD. If there's a firetruck stopped in a lane, then FSD requires the car be capable of avoiding it. EAP should benefit from those same capabilities and not crash into it if you decide not to disengage EAP and steer.

That's the point I was trying to make, which is regardless of which individual features are bundled inside the EAP and FSD packages, it's almost guaranteed that the underlying software will be shared. Once FSD is completely released, then EAP even though it has fewer features should be near perfect. It may not let you drive with your hands off the wheel, but only because Tesla wants you to buy FSD, not because it isn't safe to not pay attention.

You're speculating on how things will be in ten or fifteen years when we actually have Level 4 or Level 5 cars. My speculation is that at that point you won't even be able to buy an EAP car. You'll buy FSD or you won't. It might not even be legal to sell a car without FSD.

And my speculation is that our 2018 Model 3 cars will not be able to do true FSD because additional hardware will be needed. (I.e. I believe Tesla is mistaken in thinking that they can achieve FSD with the present hardware.) Any 2018 Model 3 cars still on the road that have paid for FSD will get the additional hardware and the software to go with it. Those that have not, won't.

It's all speculation, but I think it's far-fetched to think that our present hardware will be adequate for Level 4 driving.

 

[Knightshade]

That's a speculation. We do not know if the cars will be running the same or different software.

I mean- of course we do.

Cars with, or without, EAP today run the same base software/OS, which is what I specifically called out.

Then for the EAP cars, they're running additional functions on top of that base. FSD would do the same thing. It'd be utterly nonsensical from a software point of view to do anything else... the FSD software would still offer the same, say, radio and climate control, features, so why would you NOT reuse the existing base software for the car?

They could change their minds about that.

And you accuse me of speculating?

I mean- they published those specs in writing during the purchase process.... I mean they could change their minds about offering FSD at all and just give people refunds too- but for now what they've stated during the purchase process is the best info available.

You are conflating actual Full Self Driving with the package of driver-assist features that Tesla has decided to call "FSD." They are two different things.

I'm really not.

I'm literally quoting the Tesla definition of FSD.

The definition of full self driving is that the car does not need a driver present. The first implementation of the features Tesla is bundling into its "FSD" package will very definitely require full driver attention.

To my knowledge nobody here knows what features it's going to initially offer as FSD-exclusive, nor how much attention, if any, they require.

Most likely you'd need to pay attention in general simply because they aren't releasing the entire FSD feature set yet- so the bit about not needing to pay attention with FSD wouldn't apply until all of FSD is out.

On most roads today, most drivers drive a bit over the posted speed limit. While this is illegal, it can be argued that under some conditions, it would be unsafe to drive significantly slower than the flow of traffic.

Ok...

However, running a red light or a stop sign often results in crashes

So does speeding.

It's a cause of over 1/4 of all fatal car crashes.

For this reason, stop-sign recognition and traffic-light recognition will be analogous to autosteer: Both will require constant driver vigilance.

Until they don't- which will be when FSD is fully implemented. Because that is literally in the definition of the feature

I guarantee you that in Tesla's first implementation of stop-sign and traffic-light recognition, you will see the same kinds of warnings you now see for autosteer: "This is a BETA feature. You must remain alert and ready to take over at all times."

Since their "first implementation" will be explicitly incomplete, sure. Not sure how that changes or disputes anything I actually said though.

So-called "FSD" features will not allow you to take your eyes off the road because they will not make the car an FSD car.

Right. Just like having wings doesn't make an airplane fly, no single FSD feature makes the car so you don't have to do anything as the driver.

It's the combination of all the features together that does that- and that's not what they are releasing in August. They're releasing only the first of the features in that combo.

So you again seem to be having an argument with something nobody here said.

You said that "Only FSD gets 8 cameras and EAP gets 4". That is because the web site says so.

Right. And that means everyone who paid for it is guaranteed to get use of 4 cameras with the feature.

Nothing would prevent tesla from using more- but nobody has given any example of a use case where they'd need to either.

But I said "they could change that and allow EAP to use all 8 cameras on the "freeway" because it would be a good decision to do so. I gave my reason on why it would be a good "business" decision to do so (I use PR because that is a simply a business decision).

You didn't, really... you said it'd be "safer" without explaining why.

EAP does less things, so it's likely it can do those things with fewer cameras.

Regarding surface streets. I said I have an issue with cars running red lights or stop signs. They say on the web site that AP is designed for freeways but they let it work on surface streets. On my surface streets near my home there are a lot of elementary schools with crossing guards. Letting a car speed is one thing that all cars can do but letting a car under the control of AP run a STOP SIGN and hit a 1/2 dozen kids in the cross walk is a completely different thing.

It isn't though- because AP doesn't recognize or respond to stop signs.

It's not intended to, and doesn't claim to.

So running one with AP would be exactly the same as running one without AP at all- drivers fault.

The first time a AP Car runs down kids in a cross walk with be a huge huge problem.

it would be exactly the same problem as it is now when some idiot with AP on doesn't pay attention and causes an accident.

Arguably less of one, since unlike say an exit ramp, the system isn't designed for that use case at all

My point is that I think at some point they may just not allow your to use AP on surface streets because of the potential for this kind of accident. Remember the rules are at times to protect others and not simply to protect the driver. And driving is a privilege not a right. Of course this is just my 2 cents.

They've allowed it for years now.

Far as I know 0 children run over in crosswalks.

Again, what Tesla says EAP is actually for

Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another. exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage

Right now it requires the turn signal for lane changes, and it hasn't perfected on/off ramp transitions (though at least that second one is supposedly a lot nearer to done by the v9 update).

Nothing, whatsoever, in there about stop signs, cross-walks, or pedestrians- as it's not designed to be used for those situations.

When did Tesla say FSD doesn't require driver attention?

In the actual description of the feature on tesla.com

 

[d21mike]

I mean- of course we do.

Cars with, or without, EAP today run the same base software/OS, which is what I specifically called out.

Then for the EAP cars, they're running additional functions on top of that base. FSD would do the same thing. It'd be utterly nonsensical from a software point of view to do anything else... the FSD software would still offer the same, say, radio and climate control, features, so why would you NOT reuse the existing base software for the car?




And you accuse me of speculating?

I mean- they published those specs in writing during the purchase process.... I mean they could change their minds about offering FSD at all and just give people refunds too- but for now what they've stated during the purchase process is the best info available.




I'm really not.

I'm literally quoting the Tesla definition of FSD.




To my knowledge nobody here knows what features it's going to initially offer as FSD-exclusive, nor how much attention, if any, they require.

Most likely you'd need to pay attention in general simply because they aren't releasing the entire FSD feature set yet- so the bit about not needing to pay attention with FSD wouldn't apply until all of FSD is out.




Ok...



So does speeding.

It's a cause of over 1/4 of all fatal car crashes.



Until they don't- which will be when FSD is fully implemented. Because that is literally in the definition of the feature



Since their "first implementation" will be explicitly incomplete, sure. Not sure how that changes or disputes anything I actually said though.



Right. Just like having wings doesn't make an airplane fly, no single FSD feature makes the car so you don't have to do anything as the driver.

It's the combination of all the features together that does that- and that's not what they are releasing in August. They're releasing only the first of the features in that combo.

So you again seem to be having an argument with something nobody here said.





Right. And that means everyone who paid for it is guaranteed to get use of 4 cameras with the feature.

Nothing would prevent tesla from using more- but nobody has given any example of a use case where they'd need to either.



You didn't, really... you said it'd be "safer" without explaining why.

EAP does less things, so it's likely it can do those things with fewer cameras.



It isn't though- because AP doesn't recognize or respond to stop signs.

It's not intended to, and doesn't claim to.

So running one with AP would be exactly the same as running one without AP at all- drivers fault.



it would be exactly the same problem as it is now when some idiot with AP on doesn't pay attention and causes an accident.

Arguably less of one, since unlike say an exit ramp, the system isn't designed for that use case at all



They've allowed it for years now.

Far as I know 0 children run over in crosswalks.

Again, what Tesla says EAP is actually for



Right now it requires the turn signal for lane changes, and it hasn't perfected on/off ramp transitions (though at least that second one is supposedly a lot nearer to done by the v9 update).

Nothing, whatsoever, in there about stop signs, cross-walks, or pedestrians- as it's not designed to be used for those situations.






In the actual description of the feature on tesla.com

I believe you misunderstood my post. Maybe you did not read it clearly or maybe I was not as clear as I could have been. Maybe I move from EAP to FSD and you thought I meant EAP when I meant FSD. And part of my post was related to when both EAP and FSD are complete. Not while we are still in BETA on one or both.

None of us know what Tesla will do in the future ...

1. Regarding 4 vs. 8 cameras. I was saying "if" you need 8 cameras to "safely" do on-ramp to off-ramp and the cars with FSD were using 8 cameras safely and EAP with 4 cameras were not able to do it safely (in the same manner as FSD) then I was saying they "could" allow EAP cars to use 8 cameras for on-ramp to off-ramp BUT not for surface streets. Some think that EAP on freeways doing on-ramp to off-ramp will somehow be much different then FSD doing on-ramp to off-ramp. I simply find that hard to believe based on the web site definition of EAP.

2. When I was talking about Stop Signs I was only talking about FSD. You said AP so not sure if you are talking about EAP or FSD. No where on the Tesla Web Site does it say EAP will support Stop Sign and Traffic Lights. Correct me if I am wrong.

3. Not sure what you are referring to when you say NOTHING about Stop Signs ..... Again, this would be FSD and not EAP. If you are saying the web site does not mention those for FSD. It really does not need when it explains all that it could do. It would not simply run thru them like it does now on EAP.

4. Regarding hitting a child in a cross walk on EAP. Your response is it has never happened. My response is it will take only 1 time after FSD is released with Stop Sign support and customers with FSD expects it to stop at a stop sign but EAP customers do not stop at a stop sign. I did not say they would change the EAP behavior after all of the years (maybe I said they could change) I just said I could see a real problem if FSD worked and EAP did not at a stop sign and killed somebody. You can say in that case it was the drivers fault but I simply do not think the law makers and courts will let that go. Again, just my 2 cents. No idea. Anyway, I did purchase FSD so I will be covered.

 

[diplomat33]

The V9 update will change the display to show cars in your blind spot:
Tesla will release a new Autopilot interface with version 9 software coming this summer, confirms Elon Musk

That will be a welcome feature.

 

[Krazaak]

4. Regarding hitting a child in a cross walk on EAP. Your response is it has never happened. My response is it will take only 1 time after FSD is released with Stop Sign support and customers with FSD expects it to stop at a stop sign but EAP customers do not stop at a stop sign. I did not say they would change the EAP behavior after all of the years (maybe I said they could change) I just said I could see a real problem if FSD worked and EAP did not at a stop sign and killed somebody. You can say in that case it was the drivers fault but I simply do not think the law makers and courts will let that go. Again, just my 2 cents. No idea. Anyway, I did purchase FSD so I will be covered.

I think it's safe to assume that at the point that the car is capable of recognizing stop lights and signs to allow FSD to function, that a car using EAP that encounters a red light or stop sign would at the absolute minimum stop and disengage EAP. I simply can't imagine a situation where the car would be capable of recognizing an unsafe situation and let the car continue, think of the liability.

Heck, it could pop up a message saying that AP was disengaged because it detected a stop light and manual control will be required to continue while providing a pop-up on the console asking if you would like to purchase Full Self Driving.

FSD has the potential to offer a rich enough feature set to justify the expenditure on its own, it shouldn't be sold as an added feature to keep EAP from getting into an accident.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I simply refuse to believe that Tesla will differentiate EAP and FSD on the highway by crippling the software so that it occasionally runs into things.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

In the actual description of the feature on tesla.com

Which description? The only one I know of doesn't say anything about driver attention with respect to FSD.