FSD features to start rolling out in August...

[Krazaak]

EAP does not need the B pillar cameras IMO since those point straight out at a 90 degree and are probably more useful for seeing cross traffic at intersections (A FSD requirement but not an EAP one). The rear facing side cameras would be enough for EAP to see blind spots, I think.

Like I said, there's really no saying how closely the sensor diagram on the Autopilot description page matches the real camera coverage, but take a look at it.

Autopilot

The 2 forward looking side cameras cover an area that no other camera appears to cover. The rear camera covers almost the full span of the 2 rearward looking side cameras, albeit with less range.

Personally, I think they're just going to use all 8 cameras for EAP and FSD features.

 

[Muhammad]

I did not think about that. Does EAP not need one of the forward cameras?

The way I see it:

They need the side cameras for auto lane change and entering and exiting off ramps, so those have to be there. Of the front facing cameras the wide angle needs to be there for autosteer plus. That leaves them to choose from the long range or medium range cameras as the fourth.

Technically AP1 camera is essentially similar to the medium range camera (it's also the one currently being used for AP2 autosteer) so no need for long range. I would theorize the long range is useful for redundancy or for sensing sudden stops in traffic far ahead, something autosteer currently doesn't do well and I don't expect EAP to eventually do either. More of a FSD feature.

And for those saying they couldn't in any way get all the features they promised to work on 4 cameras I'm pretty sure Tesla thought about that long before announcing it. Lol

 

[Muhammad]

After a little searching I found this quote (must be from some press release)

Enhanced Autopilot adds new capabilities to an already advanced driving experience. The enhancements include going from one to four cameras – two redundant forward facing, left rear and right rear to see fast-approaching vehicles in adjacent lanes, 360 degree ultrasonic coverage with twice the range, and a computer that is over 40 times more powerful than before. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from

I found it on this thread

eAP vs. Self-Driving Hardware

 

[SkiTrak]

They are still killing people with AP. FSD will be a nightmare. I would hope the first computer to kill a person would demand a lawsuit large enough to bankrupt any company that put it on the road. We can not accept machines killing humans.

I find it funny that we still have people that are technology fobic. Whenever a significant advance comes in Technology there are people that are afraid of it and profess it will hurt us. All Technological advances have their advantages and their disadvantages and the ones that survive are considered improvements in lives unless you are in the Taliban.

For most of us we see a Technological Advance as a good thing if it does significantly more good than harm. So if AP and FSD cuts the serious accidents and deaths in half who would argue that it is a bid thing?

I would take this argument a step further. If Tesla develops FSD and it is safer than a human driving a car I would argue the government has a moral obligation to support it and not try to prevent it.

The interesting question which some have raised is when we have true Self Driving that is safer than a human who is responsible when an accident occurs because there will still be accidents.

I think in the short term FSD will require that the driver be responsible since a human overseeing the FSD software will be less likely to have a accident since the human can intervene when the system makes a mistake. In that sense I think it will be a long time before we have true driverless cars because most likely regulators will wait until there are essentially no accidents that can be traced to the car making a mistake.

What will be interesting is to see what the disclaimers are from the manufacture.

"Congratulations on your purchase of xxx car which is capable of taking you from your origin to your destination while you do whatever you want, read a book, watch a movie, text your friends or even sleep."

In real small print below:

"while the car is capable of driving you without any assistance from you the yyy corporation assumes no responsibility for any accidents that may occur and you indemnify and hold harmless yyy corporation from any and all results from such accidents"

Enjoy your driverless car!!!!

 

[diplomat33]

After a little searching I found this quote (must be from some press release)

Enhanced Autopilot adds new capabilities to an already advanced driving experience. The enhancements include going from one to four cameras – two redundant forward facing, left rear and right rear to see fast-approaching vehicles in adjacent lanes, 360 degree ultrasonic coverage with twice the range, and a computer that is over 40 times more powerful than before. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from

I found it on this thread

eAP vs. Self-Driving Hardware

Thanks so much! EAP should be able to do blind spot detection and auto lane change without driver input with the right rear and left rear cameras.

 

[daniel]

My fear is the negative PR when FSD kills an innocent bystander a human could have easily avoided.

I agree with you we should look at it statistically, but I just fear the bad PR for Tesla’s sake

That's why it should not be called FSD until it actually reaches full self-driving capability. Until then call it driver assist. Make it clear that the driver is responsible, until such time as the cars really are self-driving.

On the subject of liability and responsibility when an FSD car causes an accident: The owner of the car will be required to have insurance and the insurance company accepts the responsibility in return for payment of the premiums. You're required to have insurance now. The only difference is that your rates will be lower because the cars will have fewer accidents.

Luddites and morons will rant, but it's not just Tesla working on this. All the car companies and some non-car companies like Waymo are working on it. The legislature works for big business, so when FSD is ready and demonstrates that it's better than human drivers, and the auto makers have paid their bribes to the legislators (as they do anyway for favorable treatment generally, as all big business does) the laws will be passed to allow it. The only real issues are the technological ones. The programmers have a lot of problems to solve before we need to worry about legislative approval.

I'm really looking forward to my road trip this summer. First road trip on electric. I'll be using EAP conservatively, engaging it only when conditions are ideal, and keeping my hands on the wheel and my eyes on the road. Woo-hoo! Electric road trip with EAP. This is why I bought my Model 3. If I'm lucky there may be two more updates (I'm still on 18.13) with improvements to EAP before I leave.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

What does he mean by "full self driving" features? Either the car is FSD or it isn't. It already has some self-driving features in EAP: It can control its speed and it can steer within its lane and it can change lanes on the freeway.

What features will the car have for those who paid for FSD that EAP cars won't have? To my way of thinking the car does not have FSD features until you can take your hands off the wheel and close your eyes. But maybe there are features that Tesla will group into the FSD category (i.e. for people who paid the extra money). Features that will not make the car FSD but that Tesla will withhold from EAP cars.

IOW, there's Full Self Driving, for which they're not going to get regulatory approval any time soon, and there's the package of features that Tesla will call "FSD" even though they do not make the car an FSD car.

Yeah, they truly cornered themselves with this categorisation.

So say you’ve paid for FSD & your car is updated with FSD ‘features’.
When it crashes, cause it isn’t FSD, do they refund you the difference from EAP & pay for the damage?
Will they introduce a new tier called Well Enhanced Autopilot for, say, $2K?

 

[Glamisduner]

How will/do FSD cars handle 4 way stops? Whichever it counts which cars stop and the order and waits? Car around here don't stop 1/2 the time and 1/4th of the time they go in the wrong order. Or you get people waving you to go when it is their turn.

 

[JTseng]

Musk is an intelligent person. I sure hope what he said carry high degree of fact plus some optimism as part of his wishful thinking. To be fair, if the autopilot version 9 can achieve Level 4 (High automation), I will be very pleased for what Tesla has promised.

 

[electracity]

I would take this argument a step further. If Tesla develops FSD and it is safer than a human driving a car I would argue the government has a moral obligation to support it and not try to prevent it.

Why is Tesla relevant to regulation of autonomous driving? Tesla appears far behind google and probably others. Google is running a beta of a driverless taxi service. Tesla has yet to fully implement Summon.

Summon functionality originally promised is a trivial subset of full autonomy.

 

[JTseng]

Based on Level 4 FSD, human driver still be responsible for intervention from time to time. So, it does NOT require government approval. If Must is talking about releasing it by August, it will sure be Level 4 since Level 3 is a "conditional automation and Level 5 will require Congress's approval. I suspect the autopilot version 9 is a complete rewrite of newly simplified (with deeply learning) code based on AP2.5 hardware.

 

[JTseng]

How will/do FSD cars handle 4 way stops? Whichever it counts which cars stop and the order and waits? Car around here don't stop 1/2 the time and 1/4th of the time they go in the wrong order. Or you get people waving you to go when it is their turn.

According to the rule: Fist come first go. If someone waived, as human you may take on the "nice" offer. With FSD, you will stick to the rule. Google tried humanized the FSD on one of right turn scenario and did not quite work. Human factors introduce errors, hence not a good traffic rule to follow.

 

[JTseng]

Yeah, they truly cornered themselves with this categorisation.

So say you’ve paid for FSD & your car is updated with FSD ‘features’.
When it crashes, cause it isn’t FSD, do they refund you the difference from EAP & pay for the damage?
Will they introduce a new tier called Well Enhanced Autopilot for, say, $2K?

FSD Level 0 thru 5 are well defined in publication. Tesla can not fool you for what you are talking about.

 

[vinnie97]

This person either does not own a Tesla with autopilot, because the only way for him to persist in fearmongering... -- well, on the other hand, I suppose he could be conservative.

Fearmongering isn't limited to one ideology.

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

"Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time."

It could very well end up that eap always to require driver attention in all conditions while fsd will not require driver attention when used in same conditions as fsd. Problem of differentiation solved.

I had originally assumed that eap will no longer require driver attention on highway once Software and hardware have been developed to level 4 automation.

 

[Daniel in SD]

"Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time."

It could very well end up that eap always to require driver attention in all conditions while fsd will not require driver attention when used in same conditions as fsd. Problem of differentiation solved.

I had originally assumed that eap will no longer require driver attention on highway once Software and hardware have been developed to level 4 automation.

So EAP will still run into gore points and stopped fire trucks but FSD won’t? That doesn’t make any sense. It seems like the only way to realistically differentiate them is to have EAP work only on highways and have FSD work in city environments. They will be exactly the same except for where the car allows you to enable it. You can’t have a system that kills someone because you didn’t pay for a software upgrade.

 

[R.S]

Just love it when journalists don't bother to at least understand what they are reporting on...

Same article shows a picture too, surely to ease the minds of all readers...

Sadly, but it’s also a bit of a communications problem. Look at the forum here, how many people say FSD can either be, or not be.

And what is a full self driving feature? Maybe Elon, or Tesla, needs to do a bit of clarifying. Because his quote takes a bit of interpretation.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

FSD Level 0 thru 5 are well defined in publication. Tesla can not fool you for what you are talking about.

What is FSD levels 0 & 1?
Do you have a link to these publications for 0 &1 FSD?

 

[TT97]

What is FSD levels 0 & 1?
Do you have a link to these publications for 0 &1 FSD?

It is five levels of autonomous driving (not of FSD). FSD is Level 5 (and partial self driving at Levels 3 & 4). Tesla is currently Level 2.

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

So EAP will still run into gore points and stopped fire trucks but FSD won’t? That doesn’t make any sense. It seems like the only way to realistically differentiate them is to have EAP work only on highways and have FSD work in city environments. They will be exactly the same except for where the car allows you to enable it. You can’t have a system that kills someone because you didn’t pay for a software upgrade.

We do not know but speculating is fun. I can easily see this differentiation such that Autopilot is not full self driving. What they're selling is autopilot is level 2, fsd is level 4. With that, why would they let autopilot users to use self driving abilities?! Pay more if you want better/more functionality.